Tangent Thread - S&C Edition

[Mavric]

My comments aren’t just geared around o-line, they are across the offense and defense. However focusing on the o-line, there are teams which employ “swing offensive tackles” which can be used at both LT and RT to give guys breaks.  I believe Milt used a swing tackle at times during his time at NU. I’ve heard Rob Zatechka say that while he didn’t earn a starting tackle job early in his career, he was the swing tackle, so he was getting lot of game reps anyway. 

I would also be a fan of getting then next couple of OL in for a series here and there.

But I fell like this conversation about Milt have come up before and it's generally been shown not to be the case.  At least not in the big games.  In Zatechka's first two years were were winning several games per year by 5-6 touchdowns so it's a lot easier to get more guys time in those games.

 

[Born N Bled Red]

If you ask me, it looks like both lines have traded speed and nimbleness for strength. We look slow and stiff everywhere across both lines. Back in my wrestling days when we had guys walk into the room who looked so stacked you'd think the were on roids, but lacked any coordination or ability to use them, we referred to it as muscles for show vs. muscles for go. In my humble opinion, this is the difference between country boys and city dwellers. A good farm kid has honed their muscles tossing hay bales, carrying buckets of water, breaking cattle to walk on a halter, etc. These activities involve pushing, pulling, maintenance of balance (Core) etc. and teach each muscle to work in unison and quickly switch between a push and a pull. Weight training does no such thing. 

 

[SouthLincoln Husker]

I would also be a fan of getting then next couple of OL in for a series here and there.

But I fell like this conversation about Milt have come up before and it's generally been shown not to be the case.  At least not in the big games.  In Zatechka's first two years were were winning several games per year by 5-6 touchdowns so it's a lot easier to get more guys time in those games.

Underclassmen also did not play alot if snaps 

 

[ColoradoHusk]

If you ask me, it looks like both lines have traded speed and nimbleness for strength. We look slow and stiff everywhere across both lines. Back in my wrestling days when we had guys walk into the room who looked so stacked you'd think the were on roids, but lacked any coordination or ability to use them, we referred to it as muscles for show vs. muscles for go. In my humble opinion, this is the difference between country boys and city dwellers. A good farm kid has honed their muscles tossing hay bales, carrying buckets of water, breaking cattle to walk on a halter, etc. These activities involve pushing, pulling, maintenance of balance (Core) etc. and teach each muscle to work in unison and quickly switch between a push and a pull. Weight training does no such thing. 

Good to see we've reached the "country boys" vs. "city pansies" portion of the S&C discussion.  We may need to re-watch Rocky IV to get the correct answer to the question.

 

[BigRedBuster]

Underclassmen also did not play alot if snaps 

Correct.  And, it’s something a lot of fans forget.  The vast majority of our O linemen were juniors and seniors after redshirting. We didn’t see them doing their freshman sophomore mistakes. 
 

Now, we are trying to piece together lines with young guys that haven’t physically developed and learned the position. And, that’s with subpar coaching and development. 
 

Im a believer that when you throw a young kid in before he’s ready and you don’t have great coaching, bad habits are easily picked up. 
 

It’s like a beginning golfer trying to learn without spending time on the range being taught how to w swing a club. 
 

We need to get decent upper class linemen from the portal. Then, take a year or two to start developing the younger guys. Ultimately, we need to get to the point where at least 4 of our starters have been in the system for several years with good coaching and development. They know how to play with each other, know the system and are physically developed the right way. 

 

[Born N Bled Red]

Good to see we've reached the "country boys" vs. "city pansies" portion of the S&C discussion.  We may need to re-watch Rocky IV to get the correct answer to the question.

Ok, how about combat sports & gymnastics vs every other sport. Either way you shape it, there are activities that can enable a body to build core strength, push, pull, stamina and fast twitch all in one motion. There are not many activities in urban areas that similarly engage the whole body. - Sorry if you took offense. I never called anyone a pansy. Just stated the reality that kids brought up actively engaged on a farm have already learned to use their strength in real world applications due to their experience. 

Its no different that saying that a coaches kid likely has grown up with a better understanding of the game than a non-coaches kid. It doesn't mean that another person can't achieve a better understanding of the game, it just means the coaches kid had a head start due to lived experience.  :dunno

 

[ColoradoHusk]

Ok, how about combat sports & gymnastics vs every other sport. Either way you shape it, there are activities that can enable a body to build core strength, push, pull, stamina and fast twitch all in one motion. There are not many activities in urban areas that similarly engage the whole body. - Sorry if you took offense. I never called anyone a pansy. Just stated the reality that kids brought up actively engaged on a farm have already learned to use their strength in real world applications due to their experience. 

Its no different that saying that a coaches kid likely has grown up with a better understanding of the game than a non-coaches kid. It doesn't mean that another person can't achieve a better understanding of the game, it just means the coaches kid had a head start due to lived experience.  :dunno

I didn't take offense to anything.  I agree that there are functional things that kids growing up on farms or in the country which translate to the football field.  However, I am not going to agree that one group (country kids or city kids) are better than another.  I have seen plenty of NU successful offensive linemen who have come from small towns/schools, just as there have been plenty of successful offensive linemen who have come from bigger cities/schools.  I don't think there is one group who is better than the other.

I don't agree that a coach's kid has a better understanding of the game vs. a non-coach's kid.  Anyone can learn the nuances and specifics of the game, regardless of upbringing, if they put in the time to study and learn.

 

[Stumpy1]

Our S&C program is CRAP.  Duval has sacrificed speed and flexibility for overall strength.  Our players, especially in the trenches,  have become WAY to stiff which results them in being slow also.  
 

 

[Born N Bled Red]

I didn't take offense to anything.  I agree that there are functional things that kids growing up on farms or in the country which translate to the football field.  However, I am not going to agree that one group (country kids or city kids) are better than another.  I have seen plenty of NU successful offensive linemen who have come from small towns/schools, just as there have been plenty of successful offensive linemen who have come from bigger cities/schools.  I don't think there is one group who is better than the other.

I don't agree that a coach's kid has a better understanding of the game vs. a non-coach's kid.  Anyone can learn the nuances and specifics of the game, regardless of upbringing, if they put in the time to study and learn.

Glad we agree, cuz that is exactly what I said. Living with a coach allows the coaches kid to get easier access and free tutelage that a non-coaches kid would not benefit from. Thus, the head start I referred to.  :cheers

 

[Mavric]

Our S&C program is CRAP.  Duval has sacrificed speed and flexibility for overall strength.  Our players, especially in the trenches,  have become WAY to stiff which results them in being slow also.  

And yet our guys at the NFL Combine last year scored near the top in multiple tests.

 

[Mavric]

Correct.  And, it’s something a lot of fans forget.  The vast majority of our O linemen were juniors and seniors after redshirting. We didn’t see them doing their freshman sophomore mistakes. 
 

Now, we are trying to piece together lines with young guys that haven’t physically developed and learned the position. And, that’s with subpar coaching and development. 
 

Im a believer that when you throw a young kid in before he’s ready and you don’t have great coaching, bad habits are easily picked up. 
 

It’s like a beginning golfer trying to learn without spending time on the range being taught how to w swing a club. 
 

We need to get decent upper class linemen from the portal. Then, take a year or two to start developing the younger guys. Ultimately, we need to get to the point where at least 4 of our starters have been in the system for several years with good coaching and development. They know how to play with each other, know the system and are physically developed the right way. 

And before 1988 teams could have 105 scholarship players.  Before 1993 - when Zatechka got there - it was 95.  It was a lot easier to stockpile guys and let them develop.  To say nothing about the incredible advantages that the "big boys" had at that time in recruiting.  Not the least of which was nearly as much competition for recruits by lower-level P5 programs and G5 programs.

 

[MyBloodIsRed16]

I didn't take offense to anything.  I agree that there are functional things that kids growing up on farms or in the country which translate to the football field.  However, I am not going to agree that one group (country kids or city kids) are better than another.  I have seen plenty of NU successful offensive linemen who have come from small towns/schools, just as there have been plenty of successful offensive linemen who have come from bigger cities/schools.  I don't think there is one group who is better than the other.

I don't agree that a coach's kid has a better understanding of the game vs. a non-coach's kid.  Anyone can learn the nuances and specifics of the game, regardless of upbringing, if they put in the time to study and learn.

We need more Suburban kids.  They are right in the middle.  

 

[Stumpy1]

And yet our guys at the NFL Combine last year scored near the top in multiple tests.

I really hope you aren't propping up our S&C program because a couple players went and trained someplace else before the combine to help with their speed and agility.  

 

[Stumpy1]

If Rhule is the new HC, look for Jeremy Scott to be named the head guy for our S&C program.  He has followed Rhule since his days at Temple and actually was an assistant S&C coach at PSU when Rhule played there.   

 

[BigRedBuster]

And before 1988 teams could have 105 scholarship players.  Before 1993 - when Zatechka got there - it was 95.  It was a lot easier to stockpile guys and let them develop.  To say nothing about the incredible advantages that the "big boys" had at that time in recruiting.  Not the least of which was nearly as much competition for recruits by lower-level P5 programs and G5 programs.

Fully understand. But, we still need to get to a point where most of our linemen have been in the program for a while with good coaching.