The Environment

Archy1221 said:
Would you mean like global cooling to global warming to climate change to its man made to who cares why it’s happening we need to fix it to……..

BTW…..what relevant person has said the climate doesn’t change?  Who says “it’s not happening at all”?   We see people saying it’s currently a relatively stable climate environment.  We see people saying man isn’t the main driver in whatever short term climate changes has  been made.   
 

You literally are doing the same thing that you complained the tweeter was doing  :lol:
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Climate change is not happening was a very common climate denial said often, most recently by the guy you voted for twice. His official stance was "it's a hoax by China". Climate denial often goes into, well it's happening but it's not caused by Humans which seems to be what this quack on Twitter is suggesting. 

Archy1221 said:
And herein lies the problem with the climate cult.    The post by Michael you are responding to and disparaging doesn’t even make the assertion you are now fighting!   It isn’t about who, what, how, any sort of climate change has happened.   It’s mostly about the extent of how much the climate has changed (btw, it’s ALWAYS gonna change) and how it affects human existence.   
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I disparaged Michael because his stance on solar panels is beyond idiotic. The rest of his takes are equally stupid - it's why there are hundreds of organizations that take stances that are much different and suggest that human behavior is responsible, the ramifications of which are enormous, and what needs to be done to address it. I also disparaged anybody else who takes the Trump stance that is a hoax by China, which is why I've provided you with multiple sources.

Archy1221 said:
Yet you always just go back to “humans are responsible”.   But for what?   Things like Greater damage by storms???  Sure, we have more people living on the shore!!  Duh!!   Things like it’s super hot in Arizona?   Duh!!  Its biggest city is basically a desert climate, yet it’s a growing metro.  People have adapted to all this “man made climate catastrophe cult science”   
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Really? This is your take? You're well aware that humans are responsible for fossil fuel use which leads to carbon emissions, which causes climate change. Honestly the rest of this post is so insane that it's not worth responding to, other than it's strange - and I mean this completely honestly - that individuals are so wrapped up in their political identity that they're willing to take such crazy positions despite overwhelming consensus to the contrary. Not only that, what you can see and observe in the world around you every day, especially this summer. 

How you're able to construct an alternate reality and live in it just so your worldview makes sense is utterly astonishing. I truly don't know how you do it. 

 
Dr. Strangelove said:
Really? This is your take? You're well aware that humans are responsible for fossil fuel use which leads to carbon emissions, which causes climate change.
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Humans use fossil fuels, yes.  Fossil fuels use leads to carbon emissions yes.  Anything else out there that causes carbon emissions OR causes the Earths climate to change.   Ocean water takes a massive amount of heat energy to change Earths surface temp a little bit.    So what do you think is the cause of this sudden massive heat energy currently causing parts of the ocean to warm so much?   Is it The slow steady increase of carbon since records started in the 50’s?  I think not.   So what else that occurs naturally could also be an issue besides “ humans evil, fossil fuels bad”?  

 
God Lord.....heartland.org as source.   :blink:

In review, The Heartland Institute’s primary mission is to advocate for corporations and minimal regulations. For example, they have advocated on behalf of the tobacco industry, claiming that “We argue that the public health community exaggerates the (smoking) risks to justify their calls for more regulations on businesses and higher taxes on smokers and that the risk of adverse health effects from second-hand smoke is dramatically less than for active smoking, with many studies finding no adverse health effects at all. These positions are supported by many prominent scientists and virtually all free-market think tanks.” While Heartland may be able to find a few scientists and virtually all free-market think tanks (who aren’t scientists) to claim that second-hand smoke is not very harmful, that goes entirely against the consensus of the science.
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The Heartland Institute is a leading supporter of human-influenced climate change denial, and when it comes to climate change information, they have made numerous false or misleading claims. They have also made false claims when it comes to other political issues. They have failed numerous fact-checks. See below.
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https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/heartland-institute/

 
Archy1221 said:
Humans use fossil fuels, yes.  Fossil fuels use leads to carbon emissions yes.  Anything else out there that causes carbon emissions OR causes the Earths climate to change.   Ocean water takes a massive amount of heat energy to change Earths surface temp a little bit.    So what do you think is the cause of this sudden massive heat energy currently causing parts of the ocean to warm so much?   Is it The slow steady increase of carbon since records started in the 50’s?  I think not.   So what else that occurs naturally could also be an issue besides “ humans evil, fossil fuels bad”?  
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It's hardly a strain to imagine that the addition of 2 trillion tons of carbon to the atmosphere since the beginning of the industrial revolution would affect the atmosphere and climate. But you know what else emits a lot of CO2? Volcanoes! And they're natural! Just one volcano -- Krakatoa -- put so much debris in the atmosphere in 1883 it actually created a global winter that lasted two years! And that's winter which means cooling, not heating. 

But yeah, human-generated carbon still outweighs volcanoes 60:1, and the Earth has been steadily heating up much as climatologists have projected for years, although unfortunately even faster than the models suggested just a decade ago. 

Humans evil? That's a value judgement. Simple fact is that humans are the dominant species on earth, consume a vast amount of natural resources (increasingly so as standards of living rise), and have grown from 1.6 billion to 8 billion in population since that Industrial Revolution. It takes a lot of contortion to pretend we aren't massively affecting the global ecosystem. Fossil fuels bad? Another value judgement, but in terms of the economic, political, and environmental consequences of our petroleum dependence, it makes perfect nonpartisan sense to pursue alternatives. I'm happy to thank fossil fuels for all they've provided, and welcome their participation in a lesser role. 

You do know that when you say "I think not" the you in question is Archy1221, right? And that other folks know a lot more than you do because that's their job? 

 
Guy Chamberlin said:
It's hardly a strain to imagine that the addition of 2 trillion tons of carbon to the atmosphere since the beginning of the industrial revolution would affect the atmosphere and climate.
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The question is to what extent is that one variable changing the dynamic of a constantly evolving climate.   It’s hardly a strain to imagine other variable are in play that affect the climate.  
 

Guy Chamberlin said:
It takes a lot of contortion to pretend we aren't massively affecting the global ecosystem.
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No one here is disputing this so what’s your point with this?

Guy Chamberlin said:
But yeah, human-generated carbon still outweighs volcanoes 60:1, and the Earth has been steadily heating up much as climatologists have projected for years, although unfortunately even faster than the models suggested just a decade ago.
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The models have been fairly close to predicting the amount of CO2 in the air so if you are correct that the most current models have been way off in temperature predicting (I’ll have to just take your word for it) what else is at play here then?  
 

So back to my original question, what is causing this massive heat energy to cause the oceans to rise in temp so fast?   All anyone says is man made fossil fuel use.   Volcanoes?  Ehh, not sure what recent eruptions could account for it.   One thought being explored….. What about small, common (in the billions of years of Earths existence timeframe sense) shifts in the inner and outer mantle?  Releasing super heated liquid minerals like Fe deposits to rise above higher than their normal existing levels in the ground. This could possibly have a profound quick affect on ocean water temperatures.  What if the Earth is going through one of these natural cycles that scientist know exist? 

 
Guy Chamberlin said:
It's hardly a strain to imagine that the addition of 2 trillion tons of carbon to the atmosphere since the beginning of the industrial revolution would affect the atmosphere and climate. But you know what else emits a lot of CO2? Volcanoes! And they're natural! Just one volcano -- Krakatoa -- put so much debris in the atmosphere in 1883 it actually created a global winter that lasted two years! And that's winter which means cooling, not heating. 

But yeah, human-generated carbon still outweighs volcanoes 60:1, and the Earth has been steadily heating up much as climatologists have projected for years, although unfortunately even faster than the models suggested just a decade ago. 

Humans evil? That's a value judgement. Simple fact is that humans are the dominant species on earth, consume a vast amount of natural resources (increasingly so as standards of living rise), and have grown from 1.6 billion to 8 billion in population since that Industrial Revolution. It takes a lot of contortion to pretend we aren't massively affecting the global ecosystem. Fossil fuels bad? Another value judgement, but in terms of the economic, political, and environmental consequences of our petroleum dependence, it makes perfect nonpartisan sense to pursue alternatives. I'm happy to thank fossil fuels for all they've provided, and welcome their participation in a lesser role. 

You do know that when you say "I think not" the you in question is Archy1221, right? And that other folks know a lot more than you do because that's their job? 
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Exactly. 

Archy1221 said:
So after reading through the article, in your view, What is his stance on solar panels? 
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You being intentionally dense is a sight to behold. 


I'll leave this here. The collapse in certain areas of the world is extreme and goes beyond what even the most pessimistic climate model predicts. There seems to be some unknown barrier we've crossed, hopefully just temporarily. 

Archy1221 said:
Humans use fossil fuels, yes.  Fossil fuels use leads to carbon emissions yes.  Anything else out there that causes carbon emissions OR causes the Earths climate to change.   Ocean water takes a massive amount of heat energy to change Earths surface temp a little bit.    So what do you think is the cause of this sudden massive heat energy currently causing parts of the ocean to warm so much?   Is it The slow steady increase of carbon since records started in the 50’s?  I think not.   So what else that occurs naturally could also be an issue besides “ humans evil, fossil fuels bad”?  
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This is profoundly wrong. But why believe hundreds of scientists, decades of research, and your own eyes when you can just "think not"? 

 
Dr. Strangelove said:
You being intentionally dense is a sight to behold. 
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You throwing out insults doesn’t answer the question to a statement you were clear on making.   
 

What is his view on solar panels?  Is he for them or against them or agnostic to their use?  Your posts read like you know, so tell us instead of insulting people.  

 
Dr. Strangelove said:
This is profoundly wrong. But why believe hundreds of scientists, decades of research, and your own eyes when you can just "think not"? 
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Parts of the worlds oceans have heated up quite dramatically this year and well outside the norm.   This isn’t in dispute.  So tell us why?  The amount of carbon put into the atmosphere hasn’t changed recently by that much.  It’s all carbon based warming according to you, so why the anomaly in warming ocean temps? 

 
Scarlet said:
God Lord.....heartland.org as source.   :blink:

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/heartland-institute/
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And that’s where archy gets his “irrefutable” scientific evidence  :lol:

The curious thing is, actual science is not partisan. Nobody wants climate change to be affected by humans. It would be self serving for all of us if we could just continue doing what we do without needing to change a thing. But where the paths diverge is when some people stick their head up their a$$ and choose (yes choose) to ignore the scientific evidence.

I have no idea why other than their media intake is so biased and so partisan that they decide to turn off their brains and become parrots of their preferred talking point memos. It would be sad if it wasn’t so dangerous.

 
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Dr. Strangelove said:
You're going to be absolutely shocked at the answer.
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So according to your answer, this years Ocean heating will continue on? Right? The anomaly of this year will happen again next year and the next and the next right.  Because as you linked to, oceans are capturing this heat and it won’t be getting better anytime in the near future.  World Carbon outputs continue to get higher each year.  
 

Why the sudden anomaly this year?  Should be similar to any other temp rise if it’s carbon based warming. 

 
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