The 2024 Presidential Election- The LONG General Election

Who will you vote for in November - new ballot:

  • Harris

    Votes: 28 71.8%

  • Trump

    Votes: 3 7.7%

  • Kennedy

    Votes: 5 12.8%

  • Other

    Votes: 3 7.7%
  • Total voters
    39
teachercd said:
If they make a change, "health reasons" will be the only out they have and even then, JB will have to be hidden away for the next 5 months.

The real problem is, they can't run Harris, right?  But they also can't just skip over her, so she has to come out and say she doesn't want to run.

Not a ton of moving parts but enough to make it difficult.  Plus, JB is a stubborn old man, like most old men, getting him to agree to it would be hard, I would imagine. 
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This is very true. 

The biggest issue with democrats is quickly rallying around a candidate and being unified in that pick. As we all know, it's not often in history that politicians choose to put personal ambition aside.

It's why they probably stick with Biden. That unification candidate doesn't exist. 

 
Dr. Strangelove said:
One theory, I don't know if it's true, was that by holding a debate in June it allows Democrats to test the waters before their convention. If the debate was a disaster, it allows them to pivot.
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Who would they pivot to? Is there a viable Democrat? Maybe Newsom?

The Democrats have put all their hopes in Hillary Clinton, and now Joe Biden, for most of the last decade. They haven't really prepped anyone else on a national stage, and here we are with a clearly aging and drooping Biden at the 11th hour. 

Democrats continue to be their own worst enemy.

 
So Joe's performance begs the question:  Who is really running the country?

I'm reminded of the end of Woodrow Wilson's term as president a century ago.  Before the days of mass media (no TV, no Radio, no Social Media), Wilson was incapacitated with Spanish flu and more concerning a terrible stoke in the final 2 years of his presidency.  His wife, Edith, his doctor and a few insiders plus friends in the media kept up the facade that Wilson was in charge.  In fact, his wife was calling the shots.  She was the de facto president at the time.    The article below goes on to speak of the development of Amendment 25 and the removal of a president due to these kinds of health issues. 

So that brings us to today.  Perhaps Uncle Joe has the mental ability to communicate to his staff the policies he wants to implement and lets them do 99% of the heavy lifting.  But based on what was seen in the debate, I really question how engaged he could be.  Others may be really running the show.   I wonder what the other leaders saw of him when he was in France for D day?  That blank stare into space reminds me of dementia.  For me a vote for Joe is now a vote for Harris who is not up for the job - totally unprepared.  There is no way I could vote for Trump or RFKjr of course.  My only alternative is to vote Joe and just hope for the best. Like others have said - I believe Biden has adults in the room around him.  A much better cabinet than trump's group of yes men.  If Joe continues to run and against all odds win, I have to trust those adults in the room for when the inevitable happens - the day Biden has to step down.  My hope at this time is that the Dems find a younger, bright, replacement who can aggressively engage trump and expose him for the fraud he is.  Michigan and Calif governors seem the most likely.  As @knapplc said above, the Dems haven't actively groomed others for the job.  It is time for the Dems to get their act together - quickly. 

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/woodrow-wilson-stroke

What would surprise most Americans today is how the entire affair, including Wilson’s extended illness and long-term disability, was shrouded in secrecy. In recent years, the discovery of the presidential physicians’ clinical notes at the time of the illness confirm that the president’s stroke left him severely paralyzed on his left side and partially blind in his right eye, along with the emotional maelstroms that accompany any serious, life-threatening illness, but especially one that attacks the brain. Only a few weeks after his stroke, Wilson suffered a urinary tract infection that threatened to kill him. Fortunately, the president’s body was strong enough to fight that infection off but he also experienced another attack of influenza in January of 1920, which further damaged his health.

Protective of both her husband’s reputation and power, Edith shielded Woodrow from interlopers and embarked on a bedside government that essentially excluded Wilson’s staff, the Cabinet and the Congress. 
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Over the last century, historians have continued to dig into the proceedings of the Wilson administration and it has become clear that Edith Wilson acted as much more than a mere “steward.” She was, essentially, the nation’s chief executive until her husband’s second term concluded in March of 1921. Nearly three years later, Woodrow Wilson died in his Washington, D.C., home, at 2340 S Street, NW, at 11:15 AM on Sunday, Feb. 3, 1924.

According to the Feb. 4 issue of The New York Times, the former president uttered his last sentence on Friday, Feb. 1: “I am a broken piece of machinery. When the machinery is broken — I am ready.” And on Saturday, Feb. 2, he spoke his last word: Edith.

As we look forward to the presidential campaign of 2016, it seems appropriate to recall that Oct. 2, 1919, may well mark the first time in American history a woman became de-facto president of the United States, even if Edith Wilson never officially held the post. Indeed, the prolonged blockage of blood flow to his brain changed more than the course of Woodrow Wilson’s life; it changed the course of history.
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TGHusker said:
So Joe's performance begs the question:  Who is really running the country?

I'm reminded of the end of Woodrow Wilson's term as president a century ago.  Before the days of mass media (no TV, no Radio, no Social Media), Wilson was incapacitated with Spanish flu and more concerning a terrible stoke in the final 2 years of his presidency.  His wife, Edith, his doctor and a few insiders plus friends in the media kept up the facade that Wilson was in charge.  In fact, his wife was calling the shots.  She was the de facto president at the time.    The article below goes on to speak of the development of Amendment 25 and the removal of a president due to these kinds of health issues. 

So that brings us to today.  Perhaps Uncle Joe has the mental ability to communicate to his staff the policies he wants to implement and lets them do 99% of the heavy lifting.  But based on what was seen in the debate, I really question how engaged he could be.  Others may be really running the show.   I wonder what the other leaders saw of him when he was in France for D day?  That blank stare into space reminds me of dementia.  For me a vote for Joe is now a vote for Harris who is not up for the job - totally unprepared.  There is no way I could vote for Trump or RFKjr of course.  My only alternative is to vote Joe and just hope for the best. Like others have said - I believe Biden has adults in the room around him.  A much better cabinet than trump's group of yes men.  If Joe continues to run and against all odds win, I have to trust those adults in the room for when the inevitable happens - the day Biden has to step down.  My hope at this time is that the Dems find a younger, bright, replacement who can aggressively engage trump and expose him for the fraud he is.  Michigan and Calif governors seem the most likely.  As @knapplc said above, the Dems haven't actively groomed others for the job.  It is time for the Dems to get their act together - quickly. 

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/woodrow-wilson-stroke
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The D's can't even remotely hint at this, not right now.  It would be chaos for them to come out and even HINT that JB is "not running the country" 

They also can't try to "force" him out.  With all the talk about one side being honest and credible and the other side being fake and lying...you simply can't have the Democratic party give any indication that JB has not been 100% in charge.   

 
knapplc said:
Who would they pivot to? Is there a viable Democrat? Maybe Newsom?

The Democrats have put all their hopes in Hillary Clinton, and now Joe Biden, for most of the last decade. They haven't really prepped anyone else on a national stage, and here we are with a clearly aging and drooping Biden at the 11th hour. 

Democrats continue to be their own worst enemy.
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I don't think they have an alternative candidate. Their best options are Gretchen Whitmer who can help their chances in Great Lakes states  but, as a woman, will have weaknesses. They could also go with North Carolina Governor Roy Cooper, who may strengthen their chances in southern states. Each has their weaknesses, but with major drawbacks. Realistically, I don't think Democrats can unify behind a candidate in time. They'd have to do so immediately AND make sure that nobody breaks ranks in their caucus with something pesky - like personal ambition.

And, while Democrats are their own worst enemy, the coalition that makes up the party is the problem. White College educated voters are too different from black voters who are too different from white blue collar voters. Their coalition, while being at a electoral college disadvantage, means that it's hard to find candidates that satisfy all the needs the Democratic candidate has to satisfy. 

The other issue, assuming Democrats really do go a different direction, is that Joe Biden has to willingly step aside. They'll need to cite a health issue, and a proclamation that it's time for a younger candidate. As @teachercd said, you can't have any indication that this is a coup and that the delegates at the convention go rogue. The series of events that all have to happen to successfully nominate a different candidate - Joe Biden willingly stepping aside, the party unifying to a new candidate without any breaks in their ranks, and setting up the fundraising  arm with a new candidate is just not practical. They'd have to make that choice within 2 weeks, prior to the Trump sentencing date so the news cycle focuses on him which can be contrasted with a new Dem nominee. 

TGHusker said:
So Joe's performance begs the question:  Who is really running the country?
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Guys, there isn't some grand conspiracy here. Joe Biden is running the country but he's nominated good people to lead the institutions that really matter. The leaders of various departments, government agencies, and institutions are all competent. Joe Biden listens to his advisors and gives them latitude to make competent decisions. Joe Biden isn't going on rogue, senile rants making executive orders that don't make sense. 

It's why the administration has successfully traded oil at a profit using the Strategic Oil Reserve to limit how high gas prices rise or any other example. The people appointed are smart and know what they're doing. 

 
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Archy1221 said:
Biden has always been a figurehead as President and his cabinet tells him what is goin on and what decisions to make.  Unfortunately very few people want to acknowledge this 
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This has seemed, to some degree, apparent to many for a long time. Not a full weekend at bernie's scenario, but one in which he trusts his staff and cabinet to execute the details of his general ideas, which were also generally informed by them in the first place. 

 
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