The Democrat Utopia

[Archy1221]

engaging in or encouraging literal physical violence,

Agree!   Who of us WOULD want Senate leadership telling SCOTUS they have released the whirlwind and they will pay a price .   That would be silly of course! 

 

[Lorewarn]

You guys remember when divisive Obama welcomed Trump to the White House gracefully and wished for his success in unifying and leading our country? How about every time an unarmed black man was killed and he went out of his way to not demonize the police and remark on how impossibly hard their jobs are? What about his thoughtful and warm christmas addresses every year, encouraging Americans to remember the nativity story as a source of hope and kinship? Surely we all remember his efforts towards bipartisan consensus and unity that were railroaded by McConnell/Gingrich/Boehner and the astroturfed Tea Party, but are and were nonetheless readily apparent through his agenda of work his first few years? No? Okay, well I can't believe that you don't remember his rhetoric of compromise, neighborliness, and having way more in common than we have different that was the hallmark of his 2004 keystone speech (and subsequent two terms) that made his Presidency inevitable.

Now, if you don't remember any of that, or you disagree, you can at least remember the things Obama didn't do. He didn't call people dogs, ugly, pussies, the devil, morons, evil, and so on. He didn't fail to condemn violence by people in the name of his political party, nor did he encourage violence by people in the name of his political party, nor wish for a time in the good ole days when violence was an acceptable answer, nor promise to pay legal bills of people for assaulting protestors. He didn't spread insidious lies about minorities or politicians or federal workers that resulted in dozens of bomb threats, assaults, and unsafe environments for people needing help. He didn't write love letters to dictators, he didn't promise to be a dictator, and he didn't try to undermine faith in the system every chance he got.

But I can tell you who did.

 

[Guy Chamberlin]

Agree!   Who of us WOULD want Senate leadership telling SCOTUS they have released the whirlwind and they will pay a price .   That would be silly of course! 

Whirlwind?

 

[Guy Chamberlin]

You guys remember when divisive Obama welcomed Trump to the White House gracefully and wished for his success in unifying and leading our country? How about every time an unarmed black man was killed and he went out of his way to not demonize the police and remark on how impossibly hard their jobs are? What about his thoughtful and warm christmas addresses every year, encouraging Americans to remember the nativity story as a source of hope and kinship? Surely we all remember his efforts towards bipartisan consensus and unity that were railroaded by McConnell/Gingrich/Boehner and the astroturfed Tea Party, but are and were nonetheless readily apparent through his agenda of work his first few years? No? Okay, well I can't believe that you don't remember his rhetoric of compromise, neighborliness, and having way more in common than we have different that was the hallmark of his 2004 keystone speech (and subsequent two terms) that made his Presidency inevitable.

Now, if you don't remember any of that, or you disagree, you can at least remember the things Obama didn't do. He didn't call people dogs, ugly, pussies, the devil, morons, evil, and so on. He didn't fail to condemn violence by people in the name of his political party, nor did he encourage violence by people in the name of his political party, nor wish for a time in the good ole days when violence was an acceptable answer, nor promise to pay legal bills of people for assaulting protestors. He didn't spread insidious lies about minorities or politicians or federal workers that resulted in dozens of bomb threats, assaults, and unsafe environments for people needing help. He didn't write love letters to dictators, he didn't promise to be a dictator, and he didn't try to undermine faith in the system every chance he got.

But I can tell you who did.

Thanks Lorewarn.

As I recall it did get a little awkward when white people cast themselves as victims in the new race war. Believe it or not, there were elected representatives willing to go on record that slaves had it pretty good during slavery, and Blacks could avoid getting shot by police if they'd be more polite and just lay on the ground. Probably. The point being, discussions of race made some people uncomfortable, and no American should have to go through that level of discomfort. 

I would hate to paint Republicans with a broad brush, but it's also telling that Nazi's, Confederates, and Klansmen finally felt comfortable giving their endorsement to a major party candidate.  

 

[Archy1221]

You guys remember when divisive Obama welcomed Trump to the White House gracefully and wished for his success in unifying and leading our country

Yes

How about every time an unarmed black man was killed and he went out of his way to not demonize the police and remark on how impossibly hard their jobs are?

Obviously no we don’t. 
 

What about his thoughtful and warm christmas addresses every year, encouraging Americans to remember the nativity story as a source of hope and kinship?

Yep

Surely we all remember his efforts towards bipartisan consensus and unity that were railroaded by McConnell/Gingrich/Boehner and the astroturfed Tea Party, but are and were nonetheless readily apparent through his agenda of work his first few years?

:laughpound
 

He didn't spread insidious lies about minorities or politicians or federal workers that resulted in dozens of bomb threats, assaults, and unsafe environments for people needing help.

The /Trump Russia Russia Russia 2015/2016 BS would like a word.   Can’t seem to remember who IC was in charge of helping get those bogus stories out, but his initials might be BHO.  
 

He didn't call people dogs, ugly, pussies, the devil, morons, evil, and so on.

No, he preferred using….liar and bulls#!t$er (no he didn’t call Trump these back in the day, that would be everybody’s trusted Mitt Romney who he called those names), called people enemies if they don’t agree with him (2010)….geesh, is that a precursor to todays “enemy within” we are all so very upset about? He like calling people bitter and clingers of which even HRC found to be demeaning comments.  He liked to demonize “fat cats” and try to start class warfare. Call opponents fascists, compared the first year of Trump presidency to Nazi Germany, 

Is Trump more crude than Obama?  Absolutely.   Did Obama try and divide America.   Absolutely.  

 

[Lorewarn]

Yes

Obviously no we don’t. 
 

Yep

:laughpound
 

The /Trump Russia Russia Russia 2015/2016 BS would like a word.   Can’t seem to remember who IC was in charge of helping get those bogus stories out, but his initials might be BHO.  
 

No, he preferred using….liar and bulls#!t$er (no he didn’t call Trump these back in the day, that would be everybody’s trusted Mitt Romney who he called those names), called people enemies if they don’t agree with him (2010)….geesh, is that a precursor to todays “enemy within” we are all so very upset about? He like calling people bitter and clingers of which even HRC found to be demeaning comments.  He liked to demonize “fat cats” and try to start class warfare. Call opponents fascists, compared the first year of Trump presidency to Nazi Germany, 

Is Trump more crude than Obama?  Absolutely.   Did Obama try and divide America.   Absolutely.  

Obviously no we don’t. 

No worries, I'm glad to help. Here's some various excerpts of his remarks regarding different instances of black men being killed (that will touch on his non-inflammatory rhetoric towards the police but also his general vibes and sentiment of unity rather than division):

Now, the question for me at least, and I think for a lot of folks, is where do we take this?  How do we learn some lessons from this and move in a positive direction?  I think it’s understandable that there have been demonstrations and vigils and protests, and some of that stuff is just going to have to work its way through, as long as it remains nonviolent.

 If I see any violence, then I will remind folks that that dishonors what happened to Trayvon Martin and his family.  But beyond protests or vigils, the question is, are there some concrete things that we might be able to do. 


...


When I was in Illinois, I passed racial profiling legislation, and it actually did just two simple things.  One, it collected data on traffic stops and the race of the person who was stopped.  But the other thing was it resourced us training police departments across the state on how to think about potential racial bias and ways to further professionalize what they were doing. 


And initially, the police departments across the state were resistant, but actually they came to recognize that if it was done in a fair, straightforward way that it would allow them to do their jobs better and communities would have more confidence in them and, in turn, be more helpful in applying the law.  And obviously, law enforcement has got a very tough job.


...


And then, finally, I think it's going to be important for all of us to do some soul-searching.  There has been talk about should we convene a conversation on race.  I haven't seen that be particularly productive when politicians try to organize conversations.  They end up being stilted and politicized, and folks are locked into the positions they already have.  On the other hand, in families and churches and workplaces, there's the possibility that people are a little bit more honest, and at least you ask yourself your own questions about, am I wringing as much bias out of myself as I can?  Am I judging people as much as I can, based on not the color of their skin, but the content of their character?  That would, I think, be an appropriate exercise in the wake of this tragedy.


And let me just leave you with a final thought that, as difficult and challenging as this whole episode has been for a lot of people, I don’t want us to lose sight that things are getting better.  Each successive generation seems to be making progress in changing attitudes when it comes to race.  It doesn’t mean we’re in a post-racial society.  It doesn’t mean that racism is eliminated.  But when I talk to Malia and Sasha, and I listen to their friends and I seem them interact, they’re better than we are -- they’re better than we were -- on these issues.  And that’s true in every community that I’ve visited all across the country.


And so we have to be vigilant and we have to work on these issues.  And those of us in authority should be doing everything we can to encourage the better angels of our nature, as opposed to using these episodes to heighten divisions.  But we should also have confidence that kids these days, I think, have more sense than we did back then, and certainly more than our parents did or our grandparents did; and that along this long, difficult journey, we’re becoming a more perfect union -- not a perfect union, but a more perfect union.

First and foremost, we are a nation built on the rule of law.  And so we need to accept that this decision was the grand jury’s to make. There are Americans who agree with it, and there are Americans who are deeply disappointed, even angry.  It’s an understandable reaction.  But I join Michael’s parents in asking anyone who protests this decision to do so peacefully. Let me repeat Michael’s father’s words:  “Hurting others or destroying property is not the answer.  No matter what the grand jury decides, I do not want my son’s death to be in vain. I want it to lead to incredible change, positive change, change that makes the St. Louis region better for everyone.”  Michael Brown’s parents have lost more than anyone. We should be honoring their wishes.   


I also appeal to the law enforcement officials in Ferguson and the region to show care and restraint in managing peaceful protests that may occur. Understand, our police officers put their lives on the line for us every single day.  They’ve got a tough job to do to maintain public safety and hold accountable those who break the law. As they do their jobs in the coming days, they need to work with the community, not against the community, to distinguish the handful of people who may use the grand jury’s decision as an excuse for violence -- distinguish them from the vast majority who just want their voices heard around legitimate issues in terms of how communities and law enforcement interact. 


Finally, we need to recognize that the situation in Ferguson speaks to broader challenges that we still face as a nation. The fact is, in too many parts of this country, a deep distrust exists between law enforcement and communities of color. Some of this is the result of the legacy of racial discrimination in this country. And this is tragic, because nobody needs good policing more than poor communities with higher crime rates. The good news is we know there are things we can do to help. And I’ve instructed Attorney General Holder to work with cities across the country to help build better relations between communities and law enforcement. 


...


But what is also true is that there are still problems and communities of color aren't just making these problems up.  Separating that from this particular decision, there are issues in which the law too often feels as if it is being applied in discriminatory fashion. I don't think that's the norm. I don't think that's true for the majority of communities or the vast majority of law enforcement officials. But these are real issues.  And we have to lift them up and not deny them or try to tamp them down. What we need to do is to understand them and figure out how do we make more progress.  And that can be done. 


That won't be done by throwing bottles. That won't be done by smashing car windows. That won't be done by using this as an excuse to vandalize property. And it certainly won't be done by hurting anybody. So, to those in Ferguson, there are ways of channeling your concerns constructively and there are ways of channeling your concerns destructively. Michael Brown’s parents understand what it means to be constructive. The vast majority of peaceful protesters, they understand it as well.


Those of you who are watching tonight understand that there’s never an excuse for violence, particularly when there are a lot of people in goodwill out there who are willing to work on these issues. 


On the other hand, those who are only interested in focusing on the violence and just want the problem to go away need to recognize that we do have work to do here, and we shouldn’t try to paper it over. Whenever we do that, the anger may momentarily subside, but over time, it builds up and America isn't everything that it could be.

 Now, let me just say we have extraordinary appreciation and respect for the vast majority of police officers who put their lives on the line to protect us every single day.  They’ve got a dangerous job.  It is a tough job.  And as I've said before, they have a right to go home to their families, just like anybody else on the job.  And there are going to be circumstances in which they’ve got to make split-second decisions.  We understand that.

Like police officers across the country, these men and their families shared a commitment to something larger than themselves. They weren’t looking for their names to be up in lights. They’d tell you the pay was decent but wouldn’t make you rich. They could have told you about the stress and long shifts, and they’d probably agree with Chief Brown when he said that cops don’t expect to hear the words "thank you" very often, especially from those who need them the most.


No, the reward comes in knowing that our entire way of life in America depends on the rule of law; that the maintenance of that law is a hard and daily labor; that in this country, we don’t have soldiers in the streets or militias setting the rules. Instead, we have public servants -- police officers -- like the men who were taken away from us.


And that’s what these five were doing last Thursday when they were assigned to protect and keep orderly a peaceful protest in response to the killing of Alton Sterling of Baton Rouge and Philando Castile of Minnesota. They were upholding the constitutional rights of this country.


For a while, the protest went on without incident. And despite the fact that police conduct was the subject of the protest, despite the fact that there must have been signs or slogans or chants with which they profoundly disagreed, these men and this department did their jobs like the professionals that they were. In fact, the police had been part of the protest’s planning. Dallas PD even posted photos on their Twitter feeds of their own officers standing among the protesters. Two officers, black and white, smiled next to a man with a sign that read, “No Justice, No Peace.”


...


Faced with this violence, we wonder if the divides of race in America can ever be bridged. We wonder if an African-American community that feels unfairly targeted by police, and police departments that feel unfairly maligned for doing their jobs, can ever understand each other’s experience. We turn on the TV or surf the Internet, and we can watch positions harden and lines drawn, and people retreat to their respective corners, and politicians calculate how to grab attention or avoid the fallout. We see all this, and it’s hard not to think sometimes that the center won't hold and that things might get worse.


I understand. I understand how Americans are feeling. But, Dallas, I’m here to say we must reject such despair. I’m here to insist that we are not as divided as we seem. And I know that because I know America. I know how far we’ve come against impossible odds. (Applause.) I know we’ll make it because of what I’ve experienced in my own life, what I’ve seen of this country and its people -- their goodness and decency --as President of the United States. And I know it because of what we’ve seen here in Dallas -- how all of you, out of great suffering, have shown us the meaning of perseverance and character, and hope.


When the bullets started flying, the men and women of the Dallas police, they did not flinch and they did not react recklessly. They showed incredible restraint. Helped in some cases by protesters, they evacuated the injured, isolated the shooter, and saved more lives than we will ever know. (Applause.) We mourn fewer people today because of your brave actions. (Applause.) “Everyone was helping each other,” one witness said. “It wasn’t about black or white. Everyone was picking each other up and moving them away.” See, that’s the America I know.

No, he preferred using….liar and bulls#!t$er (no he didn’t call Trump these back in the day, that would be everybody’s trusted Mitt Romney who he called those names), called people enemies if they don’t agree with him (2010)….geesh, is that a precursor to todays “enemy within” we are all so very upset about?

I can find zero evidence that Obama himself called Romney a liar. He did absolutely refer to him as a bulls#!tter, and when he referred to Republicans as enemies it A. wasn't because they disagreed with him and was in a specific context of them being enemies of latino voters, which he later regretted and expressed a desire to have not used that word. What a smoking gun of division this is.

And no, that's not a precursor to Trump's enemies within sentiment, because Obama and more or less everyone that ever preceded him never came within a horizon's distance of expressing a desire to use the military to take care of these supposed enemies.

Is Trump more crude than Obama?  Absolutely. 

You can add incendiary, inflammatory, divisive, tribal, foul mouthed, sophomoric, antagonistic, bitter, self-serving, alienating, treasonous, combative, belligerent, bigoted and stubborn to this list as well.

 

[Guy Chamberlin]

Did Obama try and divide America.   Absolutely.  

This is truly pathetic. 

 

[Danny Bateman]

Don’t throw your back out bending over backwards trying to make this asinine comparison, man.

 

[Archy1221]

This is truly pathetic. 

In your mind maybe so, but at least take solace in its truthfulness. 

 

[Archy1221]

[No message]

 

[Guy Chamberlin]

In your mind maybe so, but at least take solace in its truthfulness. 

You know what's a stone cold fact?

A lot of Americans cling to their guns and Bibles.

And that allows people who are truly divisive to manipulate them with disinformation and demonizing.  The kind of thing that gets Christians and Patriots to vote for the most un-American and un-Christian candidate we've ever had.  

 

[Guy Chamberlin]

Archy, tell Sunny that Democrats also spent recent years specifically targeting Georgia election practices (including the off-the-books stuff) with massive get-out-the-vote efforts, poll-watching, and procedural challenges that helped flip the state in 2020 precisely because the suppression strategies were real and important. You keep ignoring the part where Republicans openly admitted this.

Hope you'll excuse folks for not following your logic of "don't worry, it's not fascism if it fails" 

 

[Archy1221]

You know what's a stone cold fact?

That I’m awesome

 

[Archy1221]

with massive get-out-the-vote efforts, poll-watching, and procedural challenges that helped flip the state in 2020 precisely because the suppression strategies were real and important.

As we talk about the post 2020 GA election laws though that were called Jim Crow 2.0!!   Maybe you are confused about the conversation? 

 

[Danny Bateman]

As we talk about the post 2020 GA election laws though that were called Jim Crow 2.0!!   Maybe you are confused about the conversation? 

Nah what Sunny posted is non sequitur. Just because people are actually getting out the vote doesn’t say anything about the intentions of the legislators who crafted those laws.

If you think they did so for any reason other than to benefit their team, I’ve got a bridge to sell you.