Next seasons starting linebackers

[husker B-rent]

big willie is 100% correct in everything he said.

 

[BigWillie]

And let me clarify, I know what the guy is getting at. He's talking more about genetics than 'athleticism'. Genetics allows it to be easier for one person than another to reach a certain peak. Like 'Player A' could work out 2 hours and 'Player B' could work out 4 hours at the same pace and routine, but both get the same amount out of it.

It's just mostly how much anyone is willing to work to be as good as someone else. Everyone has the capability, but not as many have the determination and will to get to that point if it isn't that easy.

 

[caveman99]

And let me clarify, I know what the guy is getting at. He's talking more about genetics than 'athleticism'. Genetics allows it to be easier for one person than another to reach a certain peak. Like 'Player A' could work out 2 hours and 'Player B' could work out 4 hours at the same pace and routine, but both get the same amount out of it.

It's just mostly how much anyone is willing to work to be as good as someone else. Everyone has the capability, but not as many have the determination and will to get to that point if it isn't that easy.

Genetics also makes some ceilings higher than others. My ceiling is definately not as high as Cody Green's ceiling. No matter what I do I won't be big or strong enough to play D1 FB. I am a good athlete, but I don't have the ceiling some of these guys have. However to your point, in my athletic area of compitence I was able to get better quicker than some by putting in the same amount of work. When I put in the extra effort I got to another level higher than most and hence I was pretty successful in my athletic endeavors.

 

[C N Red]

It's all semantics, it's just how you decide to look at it. We agree, but disagree at the same time. I am saying your athletic potential is something you are born with, so yes, I guess you could call it genetics, however, there are plenty of great athletes who's parents were not at all. I am saying athleticism is a gift that you can max out with the right work, so yes redshirting will help most. But, you see it all the time where kids come in and they are a stud in high school, but never play a down in college. Why? Many times they have reached their athletic potential by college and NO amount of work is going to make them better.

Anyways, we will just agree to disagree, or agree to agree. Depends on how you look at it. Semantics, all semantics.

 

[HuskerJosh]

It seems that worrying about taking a guy out of his red shirt year, should be a thing of the past. Most young players now are not going to stay 4 yrs, if they have a chance to go pro after their junior year. If a kid is ready and can come in and do the job, even if only to give the starter a break, than he should. It looks like Bo's going to have the depth, in the next year or two, to start playing some true freshmen, as needed. Get the best players out there, and stop worrying about saving them. It would have to look good to a young kid being recruited, knowing he might just be able to step into a starting spot or backup, in his freshmen year.

IMHO

GBR!!!

You take a kid out to play 3-4 games and you are cheating a kid out of a year of development. Not only that you are gonna have a really PO'd kid that feels like he has been jerked around. Kinda happened with Dennard. He wasted a RS year for what? Some KO coverage and a few returns?

Most kids aren't leaving after their junior year anyways, so why worry? Brandan Jackson was the first kid we have had in how long that left a year earlier? Fabian being the other?

We only had a couple kids who were physically ready to play anyways. Baker, but he was sick, lost weight and had no chance. Cotton, but we had 4 TEs already here. Same for Reed. Compton, but he had a bum shoulder he needed surgery on. Dennard, who played.

Otherwise, every single kid benefited from a year of learning. Guys like PJ Smith, Cortney Osborne, Tim Marlowe, Alonzo Whaley and others have evolved a ton. It's like night and day with a few of them. Smith, Whaley and Marlowe especially.

Redshirting has nothing to do about becoming a better athlete. If your blessed then your an athlete, and how much you are blessed determines what kind of athlete you are. If I could become a better athlete by practicing more, doing S&C, studying the playbook, then I'd be in the NFL. Athleticism isn't learned, it's a blessing. Some have it, some don't have as much. Now, I will agree redshirting helps a young kid build muscle and get a better handle on the playbook and get used to the speed of college football.

BS. You don't roll over running a 4.4 or 4.5 with 35 inch vertical. The way you are putting it that a gifted athlete just shows up and is athletic. That is far, far, far from the case. Every single one of these guys have to absolutely bust their rear end so they could get to the point they are and stay at the point they are.

One year in a major S&C program from a HS gym could absolutely transform any athlete.

Take a look at Daniel Bullocks. When he came to Lincoln he was running near a 4.8 and was thin as a rail. By the time he leaves he is over 200lbs and running sub-4.4's.

Or a guy like Brandon Rigoni. Tiny guy in HS and was average speed at best in HS. By the time he left that guy was built like a tank and one of the fastest kids on our team.

Anyone, and I mean anyone can become a better athlete. It's just how much you are willing to work to get there.

If you don't know what a college S&C program can do for you physically and athletically, then I don't know what to say.

You're so far off on the bolded part it's not even funny. I'm not disagreeing with the rest though. I went to high school with Brandon. He was always muscular and fast as hell.

 

[BigWillie]

Genetics also makes some ceilings higher than others. My ceiling is definately not as high as Cody Green's ceiling. No matter what I do I won't be big or strong enough to play D1 FB. I am a good athlete, but I don't have the ceiling some of these guys have. However to your point, in my athletic area of compitence I was able to get better quicker than some by putting in the same amount of work. When I put in the extra effort I got to another level higher than most and hence I was pretty successful in my athletic endeavors.

No, you have the ability to get to that point, just not the work ethic to get to that point.

For example -- Larry Bird. A slow white kid who could not jump and even had problems reading. He was not going to win a foot race, was not going to out jump anyone or do anything flashy on the court, but yet ended up being one of the greatest players in the history of the game.

With Bird you could find him during the winter shooting jump shots. While most kids were inside during the Indiana winters, Bird was shoveling snow so he could get space to shoot a basketball. It's dedication like that which took a meager athlete and made him one of the greatest ever.

It would be easy to say that Bird is the exception and not the rule. But Bird is one of the few who actually had the determination to knock down his mental barriers to overcome his lack of physical attributes. Not many have that and it still goes on with so many people when they say they cannot succeed like others.

Your body is a science and a complex object that you just need to figure out. And like Bird, if you put in the time to train your body, it can accomplish things no one thought is possible.

You're so far off on the bolded part it's not even funny. I'm not disagreeing with the rest though. I went to high school with Brandon. He was always muscular and fast as hell.

Rigoni put on around 20-25lbs after he came to Nebraska. Maybe at LSE he looked big, but he was nowhere near the physical specimen he ended up being by the time he left Nebraska.

 

[jayhawk]

Blake Lawrence

 

[caveman99]

Genetics also makes some ceilings higher than others. My ceiling is definately not as high as Cody Green's ceiling. No matter what I do I won't be big or strong enough to play D1 FB. I am a good athlete, but I don't have the ceiling some of these guys have. However to your point, in my athletic area of compitence I was able to get better quicker than some by putting in the same amount of work. When I put in the extra effort I got to another level higher than most and hence I was pretty successful in my athletic endeavors.

No, you have the ability to get to that point, just not the work ethic to get to that point.

For example -- Larry Bird. A slow white kid who could not jump and even had problems reading. He was not going to win a foot race, was not going to out jump anyone or do anything flashy on the court, but yet ended up being one of the greatest players in the history of the game.

With Bird you could find him during the winter shooting jump shots. While most kids were inside during the Indiana winters, Bird was shoveling snow so he could get space to shoot a basketball. It's dedication like that which took a meager athlete and made him one of the greatest ever.

It would be easy to say that Bird is the exception and not the rule. But Bird is one of the few who actually had the determination to knock down his mental barriers to overcome his lack of physical attributes. Not many have that and it still goes on with so many people when they say they cannot succeed like others.

Your body is a science and a complex object that you just need to figure out. And like Bird, if you put in the time to train your body, it can accomplish things no one thought is possible.

You are comparing apples and oranges now. I was a pretty good athlete in my day, and I worked my butt off to become good. I continue to be in good shape and can play a lot sports well when I have time. In this you are correct, if I worked my butt off in any of the sports I could play them well. My genetics however do limit my ceiling in any of those sports. I am 5' 5" tall, I am limited in how far I could take my career in many sports. I could not play D1 QB, LB, DL, OL, etc. nor could I play in the NBA. Larry Bird may have worked hard enough to overcome being a bit slow and uncoordinated, but he was also tall enough and was blessed with a frame that once molded by hard work allowed him to play in the NBA and become one of the best ever. Spud Webb and Mugsy Bogues are the only players I know of in recent history that are around my height and played a significant amount of time in the NBA. They were good players for a short while, not great. If Larry was as short as Spud Webb there is no way he is the player he became, hence a person's genetics plays a large part in what a person can ultimately do.

 

[redout22]

:backtotopic

Should be quite a battle

 

[shagg]

Genetics also makes some ceilings higher than others. My ceiling is definately not as high as Cody Green's ceiling. No matter what I do I won't be big or strong enough to play D1 FB. I am a good athlete, but I don't have the ceiling some of these guys have. However to your point, in my athletic area of compitence I was able to get better quicker than some by putting in the same amount of work. When I put in the extra effort I got to another level higher than most and hence I was pretty successful in my athletic endeavors.

No, you have the ability to get to that point, just not the work ethic to get to that point.

For example -- Larry Bird. A slow white kid who could not jump and even had problems reading. He was not going to win a foot race, was not going to out jump anyone or do anything flashy on the court, but yet ended up being one of the greatest players in the history of the game.

With Bird you could find him during the winter shooting jump shots. While most kids were inside during the Indiana winters, Bird was shoveling snow so he could get space to shoot a basketball. It's dedication like that which took a meager athlete and made him one of the greatest ever.

It would be easy to say that Bird is the exception and not the rule. But Bird is one of the few who actually had the determination to knock down his mental barriers to overcome his lack of physical attributes. Not many have that and it still goes on with so many people when they say they cannot succeed like others.

Your body is a science and a complex object that you just need to figure out. And like Bird, if you put in the time to train your body, it can accomplish things no one thought is possible.

You are comparing apples and oranges now. I was a pretty good athlete in my day, and I worked my butt off to become good. I continue to be in good shape and can play a lot sports well when I have time. In this you are correct, if I worked my butt off in any of the sports I could play them well. My genetics however do limit my ceiling in any of those sports. I am 5' 5" tall, I am limited in how far I could take my career in many sports. I could not play D1 QB, LB, DL, OL, etc. nor could I play in the NBA. Larry Bird may have worked hard enough to overcome being a bit slow and uncoordinated, but he was also tall enough and was blessed with a frame that once molded by hard work allowed him to play in the NBA and become one of the best ever. Spud Webb and Mugsy Bogues are the only players I know of in recent history that are around my height and played a significant amount of time in the NBA. They were good players for a short while, not great. If Larry was as short as Spud Webb there is no way he is the player he became, hence a person's genetics plays a large part in what a person can ultimately do.

right on...excellent point

 

[BigWillie]

Genetics also makes some ceilings higher than others. My ceiling is definately not as high as Cody Green's ceiling. No matter what I do I won't be big or strong enough to play D1 FB. I am a good athlete, but I don't have the ceiling some of these guys have. However to your point, in my athletic area of compitence I was able to get better quicker than some by putting in the same amount of work. When I put in the extra effort I got to another level higher than most and hence I was pretty successful in my athletic endeavors.

No, you have the ability to get to that point, just not the work ethic to get to that point.

For example -- Larry Bird. A slow white kid who could not jump and even had problems reading. He was not going to win a foot race, was not going to out jump anyone or do anything flashy on the court, but yet ended up being one of the greatest players in the history of the game.

With Bird you could find him during the winter shooting jump shots. While most kids were inside during the Indiana winters, Bird was shoveling snow so he could get space to shoot a basketball. It's dedication like that which took a meager athlete and made him one of the greatest ever.

It would be easy to say that Bird is the exception and not the rule. But Bird is one of the few who actually had the determination to knock down his mental barriers to overcome his lack of physical attributes. Not many have that and it still goes on with so many people when they say they cannot succeed like others.

Your body is a science and a complex object that you just need to figure out. And like Bird, if you put in the time to train your body, it can accomplish things no one thought is possible.

You are comparing apples and oranges now. I was a pretty good athlete in my day, and I worked my butt off to become good. I continue to be in good shape and can play a lot sports well when I have time. In this you are correct, if I worked my butt off in any of the sports I could play them well. My genetics however do limit my ceiling in any of those sports. I am 5' 5" tall, I am limited in how far I could take my career in many sports. I could not play D1 QB, LB, DL, OL, etc. nor could I play in the NBA. Larry Bird may have worked hard enough to overcome being a bit slow and uncoordinated, but he was also tall enough and was blessed with a frame that once molded by hard work allowed him to play in the NBA and become one of the best ever. Spud Webb and Mugsy Bogues are the only players I know of in recent history that are around my height and played a significant amount of time in the NBA. They were good players for a short while, not great. If Larry was as short as Spud Webb there is no way he is the player he became, hence a person's genetics plays a large part in what a person can ultimately do.

Apples to oranges?

Height has nothing to do with physical limitation either and that is a mind barrier you have to break down. Look at Cory Ross. Barely 5'6 and was a complete stud here. Was not the fastest (4.58), the strongest (15 reps during workout) or anything else in his time here, but he was able to find a way to be one of the most productive RBs in the past decade at our university where he sits 9th on the all-time rushing list.

So is that 1 inch in height differential what made the difference between yourself and Cory Ross? And being that you were in such great shape, could you not pound out 15 reps at 225 and crack around a 4.6 forty? If so, you have the same physical abilities as one of the best RBs to ever step on our field.

Again I say, physical attributes are not a deterrent as much as it is the mental mindset of a person.

Everything is hard in life and if it were easy for everyone, we would all be running 4.3 forty yard dashes and cashing in $10 million a year from the NFL. The difference being not everyone is willing to work to get to that point.

 

[Hunter94]

Genetics also makes some ceilings higher than others. My ceiling is definately not as high as Cody Green's ceiling. No matter what I do I won't be big or strong enough to play D1 FB. I am a good athlete, but I don't have the ceiling some of these guys have. However to your point, in my athletic area of compitence I was able to get better quicker than some by putting in the same amount of work. When I put in the extra effort I got to another level higher than most and hence I was pretty successful in my athletic endeavors.

No, you have the ability to get to that point, just not the work ethic to get to that point.

For example -- Larry Bird. A slow white kid who could not jump and even had problems reading. He was not going to win a foot race, was not going to out jump anyone or do anything flashy on the court, but yet ended up being one of the greatest players in the history of the game.

With Bird you could find him during the winter shooting jump shots. While most kids were inside during the Indiana winters, Bird was shoveling snow so he could get space to shoot a basketball. It's dedication like that which took a meager athlete and made him one of the greatest ever.

It would be easy to say that Bird is the exception and not the rule. But Bird is one of the few who actually had the determination to knock down his mental barriers to overcome his lack of physical attributes. Not many have that and it still goes on with so many people when they say they cannot succeed like others.

Your body is a science and a complex object that you just need to figure out. And like Bird, if you put in the time to train your body, it can accomplish things no one thought is possible.

You are comparing apples and oranges now. I was a pretty good athlete in my day, and I worked my butt off to become good. I continue to be in good shape and can play a lot sports well when I have time. In this you are correct, if I worked my butt off in any of the sports I could play them well. My genetics however do limit my ceiling in any of those sports. I am 5' 5" tall, I am limited in how far I could take my career in many sports. I could not play D1 QB, LB, DL, OL, etc. nor could I play in the NBA. Larry Bird may have worked hard enough to overcome being a bit slow and uncoordinated, but he was also tall enough and was blessed with a frame that once molded by hard work allowed him to play in the NBA and become one of the best ever. Spud Webb and Mugsy Bogues are the only players I know of in recent history that are around my height and played a significant amount of time in the NBA. They were good players for a short while, not great. If Larry was as short as Spud Webb there is no way he is the player he became, hence a person's genetics plays a large part in what a person can ultimately do.

Apples to oranges?

Height has nothing to do with physical limitation either and that is a mind barrier you have to break down. Look at Cory Ross. Barely 5'6 and was a complete stud here. Was not the fastest (4.58), the strongest (15 reps during workout) or anything else in his time here, but he was able to find a way to be one of the most productive RBs in the past decade at our university where he sits 9th on the all-time rushing list.

So is that 1 inch in height differential what made the difference between yourself and Cory Ross? And being that you were in such great shape, could you not pound out 15 reps at 225 and crack around a 4.6 forty? If so, you have the same physical abilities as one of the best RBs to ever step on our field.

Again I say, physical attributes are not a deterrent as much as it is the mental mindset of a person.

Everything is hard in life and if it were easy for everyone, we would all be running 4.3 forty yard dashes and cashing in $10 million a year from the NFL.

The difference being not everyone is willing to work to get to that point.

hmmm..........i call :bs:

 

[BigWillie]

hmmm..........i call :bs:

Call BS on what exactly? The stats for Cory Ross or .. ?

http://www.nflhuskers.com/draft/2006ross.html

And rushing totals ..

http://www.huskers.com//pdf7/135025.pdf (Page 4)

Cory finished 2 yards behind Diedrick and 34 behind LP on the all-time list.

Or are you calling BS on the physical attributes comparison? I mean, if height were such a disadvantage, why was Cory able to progress into one of the best RBs in Husker history? With speed being a disadvantage, why was Ross able to progress into one of the best in Husker history? With strength being a disadvantage, why was Ross able to progress into one of the best in Husker history?

You look at Cory and he looks like a pudgy little meatball, but yet he is one of the best runners in our schools history. God did not bless him with great genetics, but yet look at what he was able to do.

Again, it goes back to if you are willing to work to do what you want in life. Just because something is harder for you than someone else does not mean it is not attainable. That's just a cop out for actually working that much harder.

 

[caveman99]

hmmm..........i call :bs:

Call BS on what exactly? The stats for Cory Ross or .. ?

http://www.nflhuskers.com/draft/2006ross.html

And rushing totals ..

http://www.huskers.com//pdf7/135025.pdf (Page 4)

Cory finished 2 yards behind Diedrick and 34 behind LP on the all-time list.

Or are you calling BS on the physical attributes comparison? I mean, if height were such a disadvantage, why was Cory able to progress into one of the best RBs in Husker history? With speed being a disadvantage, why was Ross able to progress into one of the best in Husker history? With strength being a disadvantage, why was Ross able to progress into one of the best in Husker history?

You look at Cory and he looks like a pudgy little meatball, but yet he is one of the best runners in our schools history. God did not bless him with great genetics, but yet look at what he was able to do.

Again, it goes back to if you are willing to work to do what you want in life. Just because something is harder for you than someone else does not mean it is not attainable. That's just a cop out for actually working that much harder.

Ok please you are listing an exception to the rule, just like Mugsy Bogues and Spud Webb I mentioned earlier. How many players are in the NBA that are my height? Can you name another NU RB in the last 20 years that was as short as Cory Ross and started or made significant contributions? How about the pros?

I completely agree with you about hard work releasing untapped potential, I have been around athletics enough to see a whole lot of that. It is because of this that I don't put as much stock in the recruiting ratings as some, those rankings give you the current measurables but they don't factor in heart or desire. TO did a better job than anyone in measuring the whole package, so far Bo's staff seems to have some of the same ability or at least I hope. A person with less talent can overcome those with a lot more by simply wanting it more.

You cannot deny the impact genetics has on a person's potential. Perfect example that scientists are studying is the phenomenon of black runners who can trace their lineage back to or are from Western Africa are better built to be sprinters vs. black runners who are from or whose lineage goes back to Eastern Africa are better built to be long distance runners. Both groups are genetically engineered different, this is fact. This also explains a lot about why the U.S. is so good in sprint events in the Olympics, most of the African-Americans have lineage back to the Western Coast of Africa. A good portion of the long distance runners in the U.S. are still Caucasion. The African-American has better genetics for quick burst speed, why do you think that the majority of the skill players these days are African-American. They are blessed.

 

[BigWillie]

hmmm..........i call :bs:

Call BS on what exactly? The stats for Cory Ross or .. ?

http://www.nflhuskers.com/draft/2006ross.html

And rushing totals ..

http://www.huskers.com//pdf7/135025.pdf (Page 4)

Cory finished 2 yards behind Diedrick and 34 behind LP on the all-time list.

Or are you calling BS on the physical attributes comparison? I mean, if height were such a disadvantage, why was Cory able to progress into one of the best RBs in Husker history? With speed being a disadvantage, why was Ross able to progress into one of the best in Husker history? With strength being a disadvantage, why was Ross able to progress into one of the best in Husker history?

You look at Cory and he looks like a pudgy little meatball, but yet he is one of the best runners in our schools history. God did not bless him with great genetics, but yet look at what he was able to do.

Again, it goes back to if you are willing to work to do what you want in life. Just because something is harder for you than someone else does not mean it is not attainable. That's just a cop out for actually working that much harder.

Ok please you are listing an exception to the rule, just like Mugsy Bogues and Spud Webb I mentioned earlier. How many players are in the NBA that are my height? Can you name another NU RB in the last 20 years that was as short as Cory Ross and started or made significant contributions? How about the pros?

I completely agree with you about hard work releasing untapped potential, I have been around athletics enough to see a whole lot of that. It is because of this that I don't put as much stock in the recruiting ratings as some, those rankings give you the current measurables but they don't factor in heart or desire. TO did a better job than anyone in measuring the whole package, so far Bo's staff seems to have some of the same ability or at least I hope. A person with less talent can overcome those with a lot more by simply wanting it more.

You cannot deny the impact genetics has on a person's potential. Perfect example that scientists are studying is the phenomenon of black runners who can trace their lineage back to or are from Western Africa are better built to be sprinters vs. black runners who are from or whose lineage goes back to Eastern Africa are better built to be long distance runners. Both groups are genetically engineered different, this is fact. This also explains a lot about why the U.S. is so good in sprint events in the Olympics, most of the African-Americans have lineage back to the Western Coast of Africa. A good portion of the long distance runners in the U.S. are still Caucasion. The African-American has better genetics for quick burst speed, why do you think that the majority of the skill players these days are African-American. They are blessed.

Just in recent years? Brandon Rigoni and Tim Marlowe. In practice Marlowe is absolutely torching our DBs working out of the slot. And that is just on our team. Marlowe is listed at 5'10, but he is barely 5'7.

In the NFL? Maurice Jones-Drew and Darren Sproles are two of the better RBs in the NFL. Bob Sanders was a former NFL DPOY. You could talk about other guys like Jason David and Antonio Chatham who contribute, but ah, what would be the point?

African-Americans are better athletes because they trained to be such. It's tough to put it this way, but when African-Americans where slaves, they were trained to be faster, stronger an work harder. Slave traders forced the best workers into sexual relations so they could essentially breed better workers. The better the worker, the more they could sell them for. These people were basically bred like horses for generations by slave traders everywhere. However, these people did not come out of the womb with these genetics. They were developed. And how were they developed? Through continued hard work.

But what you are saying is the equivalent of saying -- mom and dad are fat, so I will be fat as well. The likelihood that you will be heavy is greater, but only you control your diet and how healthy you can/will be in life. It may be harder for you to become healthy, but it does not mean you absolutely cannot become healthy. Genetics only controls the greater likelihood of something, it isn't the definitive determining factor in the outcome. That is where you are getting confused.

It's almost like Muhammad Ali. His father painted billboards and IIRC, his mother was a home maker. What genetic structure did he have that allowed him to be the greatest fighter to ever live or have those insanely fast hands? I mean, the guy was borderline retarded. Legitimately mentally retarded for those thinking I am joking. His IQ was 78. Now after his years of dedication and work his gene structure allowed him to have a child like Layla who has became the greatest female boxer of her time.

Genetics are developed then inherited, not just inherited.