QB Race

[Fuzzy]

Throwing a safe incomplete pass for a 3 and out over and over again, is no way to manage a game. Therefore not a game manager. A true freshman QB forcing a pass to a well covered reciever only to have it picked out and returned for a touchdown is not a play maker.

I am a firm believer that you can have the strongest arm and fastest legs a QB can have, but if you don't know how to lead the offense, manage the game, call the right auds, read the defense, and all that. Having the potential to be a mobile QB means nothing if you don't know how to utilize your abilities to win the game.

 

[bshirt]

I found Steve Sipple's article on "Game manager or game changer?" to be very intriguing. http://www.huskerextra.com/articles/2010/08/24/football/doc4c7337afcf40f860118970.txt

It really throws into question which kind of QB do we need this year, a game manager (Zac Lee) or a game changer (Cody Green or Taylor Martinez). My pick is a game manager. My reason for that is, i don't really rely on a fresh playermaker to control my offense unless I am in a bind or my game manager isn't managing things very well on the offensive side of the ball. I don't see a reason this year to call upon a young game changer if a veteran game manager can win the game.

All thing being equal you may have a good point. I still think "game management" is grossly over-rated as there's zillions of guys who can't run but can hand the ball off and throw safe incomplete passes for yet another 3 & out. Bfd. There's a heavy, heavy dose of "coach speak" going on here I suspect.

However, there's a big difference regarding NU's near future. Lee is done after this year while Green will have two more years and Tmart three more years.

I bet Bo likes the idea of next year entering the Big10 with a qb who's experienced "and" a playmaker in contrast to very little experience at qb returning and their play making abilities not known. Now if Lee was clearly the best available that would be a different deal. But by all indications so far he's not.

Also, why would you put your potential playmakers on the bench? Lee may indeed be "serviceable" as many claim but that's his ceiling. From what I've seen and read, Green & especially TMart's potential ceilings are much, much higher.

Nope....I don't buy it. It's Green or TMart starting by BigXII play.

Bo has said several times he is not looking a head to next year. To call Lee's ceiling serviceable is simply not true. What is your big beef against him anyways? Have you seen him play in more than the 13 games the rest of us have? Is the fact that he was running timid (while injured) really the only thing you have against him?

I have nothing personal against him. On the contrary, I think he's a tough kid and a gamer who I really respect. I just don't think he's any kind of a blue chip qb.

I just want a good to great qb for NU. Like everyone else here I grew up watching Tagge, Humm, Ferragamo, Gill, Frazier, Frost, Crouch, etc. I think NU richly deserves that and Lee simply doesn't qualify (running or passing, much less both). That's all.

Now maybe Green and TMart don't either. I don't know. But we won't know until we try.

What's your beef about NU having a great offense? Why do you insist on riding the same horse to another last place finish? Or are you implying that Lee will be great this year? If so, based on what??

 

[knapplc]

What's your beef about NU having a great offense? Why do you insist on riding the same horse to another last place finish? Or are you implying that Lee will be great this year? If so, based on what??

The problem with your position is that you have zero substantive evidence to show that our offense will be anywhere near "great" this year. If you point to last year, every time our offense was even remotely good, Lee played a major role. If you're implying that we'll be better without Lee this year, what are you basing that on?

You seem to want to throw Lee under the bus because he isn't Dave Humm or Turner Gill, but no QB we've had in the past decade has been, and only one has been close. We can have a fine season with Lee as our QB, and it's reasonable to assume he'll be better this year than he was in his first year starting. But if we're going to cast him to the curb based on last season's performance, we've got about half a dozen more guys to throw there with him.

 

[bshirt]

What's your beef about NU having a great offense? Why do you insist on riding the same horse to another last place finish? Or are you implying that Lee will be great this year? If so, based on what??

The problem with your position is that you have zero substantive evidence to show that our offense will be anywhere near "great" this year. If you point to last year, every time our offense was even remotely good, Lee played a major role. If you're implying that we'll be better without Lee this year, what are you basing that on?

You seem to want to throw Lee under the bus because he isn't Dave Humm or Turner Gill, but no QB we've had in the past decade has been, and only one has been close. We can have a fine season with Lee as our QB, and it's reasonable to assume he'll be better this year than he was in his first year starting. But if we're going to cast him to the curb based on last season's performance, we've got about half a dozen more guys to throw there with him.

Heh....well knapplc, of course you're right I have no evidense our offense will be great this year. I just think we have "much" higher chance of getting a great offense if we have a qb who really shines at something. What does Lee really shine at?? Yeah...that's what I thought.

Sure, we can have fine season with Lee. I just want NU to return to it's rightful premier status in cfb which is far, far above being just "fine".

At for the last decade I would most certainly list Crouch as a GREAT qb. No problem that you don't as that's ok. We'll just agree to disagree. Nuke barring injury could have been great. Z. Taylor while not great was pretty damn good and Ganz was a gamer. J. Lord was grossly underrated imo. I would be thrilled to have any of these guys over Lee (Crouch especially.... :koolaid2: ). Heck, maybe we do with Tmart?? :corndance

Anyway, my kind sir, if 99.99% of posters here are correct and Lee leads us to a superb season I'll cheer him on like he's the savior and eat whatever amounts of crow you throw at me. It would be a small, small price to pay.

Wow....just over one week to go!!

:bigredn:

 

[Enhance]

What's your beef about NU having a great offense? Why do you insist on riding the same horse to another last place finish? Or are you implying that Lee will be great this year? If so, based on what??

The problem with your position is that you have zero substantive evidence to show that our offense will be anywhere near "great" this year. If you point to last year, every time our offense was even remotely good, Lee played a major role. If you're implying that we'll be better without Lee this year, what are you basing that on?

You seem to want to throw Lee under the bus because he isn't Dave Humm or Turner Gill, but no QB we've had in the past decade has been, and only one has been close. We can have a fine season with Lee as our QB, and it's reasonable to assume he'll be better this year than he was in his first year starting. But if we're going to cast him to the curb based on last season's performance, we've got about half a dozen more guys to throw there with him.

Heh....well knapplc, of course you're right I have no evidense our offense will be great this year. I just think we have "much" higher chance of getting a great offense if we have a qb who really shines at something. What does Lee really shine at?? Yeah...that's what I thought.

I think his point more or less is we have no proof to suggest a great offense this year but we ALSO have no proof of any other player being capable of utilizing our offense. When the offense did well (or better than suck last year) Lee was the quarterback under center.

Right now, evidence to suggest any other quarterback could take the reins of the offense really isn't there. But, being the incumbent and having the most experience, this gives Lee the most honest chance to be our guy.

 

[knapplc]

I think his point more or less is we have no proof to suggest a great offense this year but we ALSO have no proof of any other player being capable of utilizing our offense. When the offense did well (or better than suck last year) Lee was the quarterback under center.

Right now, evidence to suggest any other quarterback could take the reins of the offense really isn't there. But, being the incumbent and having the most experience, this gives Lee the most honest chance to be our guy.

That is exactly my point. I don't get the need to trash our guy in favor of more of our guys who we know next to nothing about.

What do we know about Cody Green? He can beat Baylor and he looked way over his head against Oklahoma, and he was fine in mop-up duty against the rest. He was a true Freshman and shouldn't be expected to be anything other than that - but nothing we saw last year makes him any better than Lee, and likely he would be a step down.

We know absolutely nothing about Taylor Martinez except that he was impressive in a game-like scrimmage.

We know a little bit more about LaTravis Washington, but less than we know about Green.

Denouncing Lee in favor our troop of unknowns doesn't make sense in the least. Denouncing Lee because he's not Dave Humm makes no sense whatsoever.

 

[jas11]

I think his point more or less is we have no proof to suggest a great offense this year but we ALSO have no proof of any other player being capable of utilizing our offense. When the offense did well (or better than suck last year) Lee was the quarterback under center.

Right now, evidence to suggest any other quarterback could take the reins of the offense really isn't there. But, being the incumbent and having the most experience, this gives Lee the most honest chance to be our guy.

That is exactly my point. I don't get the need to trash our guy in favor of more of our guys who we know next to nothing about.

What do we know about Cody Green? He can beat Baylor and he looked way over his head against Oklahoma, and he was fine in mop-up duty against the rest. He was a true Freshman and shouldn't be expected to be anything other than that - but nothing we saw last year makes him any better than Lee, and likely he would be a step down.

We know absolutely nothing about Taylor Martinez except that he was impressive in a game-like scrimmage.

We know a little bit more about LaTravis Washington, but less than we know about Green.

Denouncing Lee in favor our troop of unknowns doesn't make sense in the least. Denouncing Lee because he's not Dave Humm makes no sense whatsoever.

It also makes no sense to anoint Lee the starter. By all accounts, Lee hasn't done anything up to this point to separate himself from Green and Martinez. If the injury was really holding him back that much, and the coaching staff is looking for a "game manager," he should theoretically be in the lead right now, considering his experience and time in the system.

We don't know what a healthy Zac Lee is. It could quite possibly be pretty similar to the "injured" Zac Lee of last year.

 

[knapplc]

It also makes no sense to anoint Lee the starter. By all accounts, Lee hasn't done anything up to this point to separate himself from Green and Martinez. If the injury was really holding him back that much, and the coaching staff is looking for a "game manager," he should theoretically be in the lead right now, considering his experience and time in the system.
We don't know what a healthy Zac Lee is. It could quite possibly be pretty similar to the "injured" Zac Lee of last year.

Nobody is "anointing" Lee anything. If he doesn't earn it out of camp, too bad. If he does earn the starting gig, likely he'll have done it based on his season of experience leading the offense, something none of the other candidates has. If, with that year of experience, he's beaten out by Green or Martinez, that clearly means he's not good enough to hold the job, and I'm totally cool with that.

If we're looking for Bo to name a starter at this point in camp we may as well spend our time searching for a reasonable K-State fan. We'll just as much luck doing that as getting anything concrete out of Bo's mouth concerning QBs.

 

[Enhance]

I think his point more or less is we have no proof to suggest a great offense this year but we ALSO have no proof of any other player being capable of utilizing our offense. When the offense did well (or better than suck last year) Lee was the quarterback under center.

Right now, evidence to suggest any other quarterback could take the reins of the offense really isn't there. But, being the incumbent and having the most experience, this gives Lee the most honest chance to be our guy.

That is exactly my point. I don't get the need to trash our guy in favor of more of our guys who we know next to nothing about.

What do we know about Cody Green? He can beat Baylor and he looked way over his head against Oklahoma, and he was fine in mop-up duty against the rest. He was a true Freshman and shouldn't be expected to be anything other than that - but nothing we saw last year makes him any better than Lee, and likely he would be a step down.

We know absolutely nothing about Taylor Martinez except that he was impressive in a game-like scrimmage.

We know a little bit more about LaTravis Washington, but less than we know about Green.

Denouncing Lee in favor our troop of unknowns doesn't make sense in the least. Denouncing Lee because he's not Dave Humm makes no sense whatsoever.

It also makes no sense to anoint Lee the starter. By all accounts, Lee hasn't done anything up to this point to separate himself from Green and Martinez. If the injury was really holding him back that much, and the coaching staff is looking for a "game manager," he should theoretically be in the lead right now, considering his experience and time in the system.

We don't know what a healthy Zac Lee is. It could quite possibly be pretty similar to the "injured" Zac Lee of last year.

I think that's missing his point though. Knapplc isn't annointing anyone. In my eyes, Lee is in fact separated from Martinez and Green because of the experience he has. Besides, Lee is without a doubt our most talented and mechanically sound passer we've seen so far. We saw what happened last year when we didn't have someone who could make plays with their arm, and I don't think the coaches want to go a direction with a guy that isn't going to do well in the passing game.

Also, I get the honest impression the coaches aren't looking for that "game manager" right now. They're looking for a guy that won't turn the ball over and can make plays, and big plays when he has to.

All in all we cannot completely cross out any name at this point. That said, Lee being our most experienced makes me believe he'll be our guy. Expect to see Martinez and Green get snaps, but I just don't see Lee losing the job to a either Green or Martinez yet. Maybe when the season rolls around we'll see who is the better in game quarterback. But right now, Lee is the choice I believe the coaches will make.

 

[HuskerNMO]

I think his point more or less is we have no proof to suggest a great offense this year but we ALSO have no proof of any other player being capable of utilizing our offense. When the offense did well (or better than suck last year) Lee was the quarterback under center.

Right now, evidence to suggest any other quarterback could take the reins of the offense really isn't there. But, being the incumbent and having the most experience, this gives Lee the most honest chance to be our guy.

That is exactly my point. I don't get the need to trash our guy in favor of more of our guys who we know next to nothing about.

What do we know about Cody Green? He can beat Baylor and he looked way over his head against Oklahoma, and he was fine in mop-up duty against the rest. He was a true Freshman and shouldn't be expected to be anything other than that - but nothing we saw last year makes him any better than Lee, and likely he would be a step down.

We know absolutely nothing about Taylor Martinez except that he was impressive in a game-like scrimmage.

We know a little bit more about LaTravis Washington, but less than we know about Green.

Denouncing Lee in favor our troop of unknowns doesn't make sense in the least. Denouncing Lee because he's not Dave Humm makes no sense whatsoever.

I think the thing we're learning about Martinez is that when he's good, he's really good. But what people ignore, or don't hear, is that when he's bad, he's really bad. According to a poster at HI, who is well trusted, Martinez at one point threw three consecutive passes in a practice that went for 6 points (the other way). It will be an interesting season in regards to the QB race, last year it was rumored that Watson and Bo didn't necessarily agree on who should be our QB, may shape up that way again?

 

[HuskerNMO]

It also makes no sense to anoint Lee the starter. By all accounts, Lee hasn't done anything up to this point to separate himself from Green and Martinez. If the injury was really holding him back that much, and the coaching staff is looking for a "game manager," he should theoretically be in the lead right now, considering his experience and time in the system.
We don't know what a healthy Zac Lee is. It could quite possibly be pretty similar to the "injured" Zac Lee of last year.

Nobody is "anointing" Lee anything. If he doesn't earn it out of camp, too bad. If he does earn the starting gig, likely he'll have done it based on his season of experience leading the offense, something none of the other candidates has. If, with that year of experience, he's beaten out by Green or Martinez, that clearly means he's not good enough to hold the job, and I'm totally cool with that.

If we're looking for Bo to name a starter at this point in camp we may as well spend our time searching for a reasonable K-State fan. We'll just as much luck doing that as getting anything concrete out of Bo's mouth concerning QBs.

Exactly, with Bo I almost expect the depth chart to say in week 1

Zac Lee

or Cody Green

or Taylor Martinez

 

[Igetbored216]

Lee will start, but we will probably see a combination of all three QBs for the first two (maybe three) games to "see what they can do".

I don't expect a solid starter for the whole year. If one of them was far better, they would have been named the starter by now (like Ganz was in 2008). So, unless someone really steps up in the first three to four games and continues their surge into conference play, I would expect the QB situation to be much like last year: very dynamic.

Not necessarily a good thing, but I think that's where we are in regards to the QB position.

 

[jas11]

I think his point more or less is we have no proof to suggest a great offense this year but we ALSO have no proof of any other player being capable of utilizing our offense. When the offense did well (or better than suck last year) Lee was the quarterback under center.

Right now, evidence to suggest any other quarterback could take the reins of the offense really isn't there. But, being the incumbent and having the most experience, this gives Lee the most honest chance to be our guy.

That is exactly my point. I don't get the need to trash our guy in favor of more of our guys who we know next to nothing about.

What do we know about Cody Green? He can beat Baylor and he looked way over his head against Oklahoma, and he was fine in mop-up duty against the rest. He was a true Freshman and shouldn't be expected to be anything other than that - but nothing we saw last year makes him any better than Lee, and likely he would be a step down.

We know absolutely nothing about Taylor Martinez except that he was impressive in a game-like scrimmage.

We know a little bit more about LaTravis Washington, but less than we know about Green.

Denouncing Lee in favor our troop of unknowns doesn't make sense in the least. Denouncing Lee because he's not Dave Humm makes no sense whatsoever.

It also makes no sense to anoint Lee the starter. By all accounts, Lee hasn't done anything up to this point to separate himself from Green and Martinez. If the injury was really holding him back that much, and the coaching staff is looking for a "game manager," he should theoretically be in the lead right now, considering his experience and time in the system.

We don't know what a healthy Zac Lee is. It could quite possibly be pretty similar to the "injured" Zac Lee of last year.

I think that's missing his point though. Knapplc isn't annointing anyone. In my eyes, Lee is in fact separated from Martinez and Green because of the experience he has. Besides, Lee is without a doubt our most talented and mechanically sound passer we've seen so far. We saw what happened last year when we didn't have someone who could make plays with their arm, and I don't think the coaches want to go a direction with a guy that isn't going to do well in the passing game.

Also, I get the honest impression the coaches aren't looking for that "game manager" right now. They're looking for a guy that won't turn the ball over and can make plays, and big plays when he has to.

All in all we cannot completely cross out any name at this point. That said, Lee being our most experienced makes me believe he'll be our guy. Expect to see Martinez and Green get snaps, but I just don't see Lee losing the job to a either Green or Martinez yet. Maybe when the season rolls around we'll see who is the better in game quarterback. But right now, Lee is the choice I believe the coaches will make.

I would agree that at this point, because of his experience alone, Lee likely has the upper hand. Bottom line is, no one knows how injured Lee was last year and how much it affected his game. I tend to think that Martinez has too much upside to keep him behind Lee if they can get a solid grasp on controlling the offense.

I will gladly eat my words if Lee comes out and lights the world on fire, but I'm putting the chips on Martinez eventually taking the job this year.

 

[HuskerExpat]

My guess is that prior to the first game, Lee is going to be the 1a QB and either Lee or Martinez will be the 1b QB. I suspect that Pelini, fed up with the constant, "why hasn't there been an announcement at QB" questions in post-practice press meetings, will announce the 1(a) and 1b scenario a few days before the Western Kentucky game. Then it will be Lee for the first couple of series and then Lee or Martinez for the next series or two. Watson and Pelini will then have a better idea who should get the rest of the snaps that game. Hopefully.

If there isn't a "clear" answer who is QB yet, then there probably isn't going to be a clear answer heading into the first game.

 

[ADS]

I would like to see our offense do what Mizzou did with Chase Daniel and Brad Smith. Brad Smith was the starter, but every second quarter Chase would come in for 2-3 series to get some game experience.