Osborne in Tressel's shoes

[hskrpwr13]

I think age and experience dictates the answer to the posed question. In my mid-20s, living in AZ, I invested a lot of emotion in rooting for the team. At that time I don't think I'd have had the clarity to want TO fired. (and yes, I agree that because TO is TO, this is purely fantasy) Now pushing 40, and after a terrible decade, compared to the 80s and 90s, and I imagine after other life changing events/maturity, I would agree that TO would've needed to be fired if this had happened under his watch. Its not about whether the NCAA violation is large or small, its about running a clean program, and setting an example for students to follow.

For me, a University should still be a school first. Somewhere down the line, being exceptional at an extra-curricular activity can matter.

 

[Fuzzy]

Well its official, most people support the school above any coach.

 

[Hujan]

I say no, but only because I don't think Tressel should be fired either.

This whole thing has been blown way out of proportion. I can't blame Tressel for thinking this is one of the most ridiculous things he's ever heard of. It's gotten to the point where the NCAA almost compels everyone to lie to them because they've made just about every little thing a violation.

Everyone tells white lies; it's just that with the NCAA, a white lie ends up being cover-up for some major violation. I think Tressel felt compelled to protect his players, thought it was no big deal, never figured it would get this kind of exposure, and now regrets his actions.

This says more about the NCAA's overbearing authority than Tressel's character, IMO.

 

[redblooded]

I am not saying we are running a dirty program by any means. What I am saying is that the rules are vast and unknown that we have had things happen that most likely are on par with Tressels actions. Some of these rules, no one else would live under.

I am just saying if they dig around Nebraska, Oklahoma, Florida, LSU and a host of others, they would find something and I think that is what is going on. They are looking for something to hurt the program. I feel sorry for Ohio State, as I believe Tressel is in the lines of Osborne, a good man, not a villan, a guy doing everything to protect his kids. That is why I have such a problem with it.

Up until this broke, most people would have put Coach Tressel in the same group as Coach Osborne, and I do not feel he is that far away still. It is a witch hunt. He made several mistakes, but I do not think it was an attempt to further his wins or prevent losses, I think it was to protect the kids.

As many have said I have no dog in this fight, but as a person that respects hard working coaches, good people, I think it would be sad to lose Coach Tressel to this, not only for Ohio State, but college football in general.

I don't know if I'd be putting him in the same group as Osborne. First of all there were violations at Youngstown state and before at Ohio State under his watch. If you followed Pryor's recruitment 4 years ago it felt like whoever got him would probably would pay for having him on the team at some point... and it was hard not to follow it considering he was getting coverage all over espn until he signed.

I am guessing the point you are trying to make is that there are too many people surrounding every program to know everything that goes on with everyone. Which I'd agree. However the issue isn't what the NCAA found out, its that Tressel knew about the violations and chose to try and pretend he didn't to the NCAA.

I doubt very much Osborne would have put himself in the same position by lying to the NCAA and hoping the story wouldn't come out. That's why the hypothetical posed originally (by whoever) is a flawed argument and bad analogy. Just because they are winning coaches that come off as sort of mild mannered does not mean they have the same character or integrity or would ever have wound up in the same position.

Now if he'd have wanted us to imagine that Jim Tressel was the coach of <insert your team here> that'd be a better argument. If I was imagining he was coaching Nebraska I'd have hoped they (whoever was AD and Chancellor) would have canned his a$$ already when we had to deal with issues like this http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=1919059 . If he was still around and had it come up a 3rd time (if you include basically the same allegations of improper benefits at Youngstown State) and another NCAA investigation he'd simply have to go, period, and I'd expect the program to be hammered for keeping him around.

 

[74Hunter]

Not correct, he held it for a period of time, thinking about it.

You may want to re-think that statement. From what I recall, TO got the gun from T. Williams, called the campus police to turn it over (but they never came to get it), gave it to Kevin Steele, who locked it away in his office. TO took off on a recruiting trip and the Lincoln police came to get it. When they came looking for it, it was turned over.

Besides, the T. Williams incident wasn't an "NCAA violation," for what that is worth.

We have our problems, just like every major program in the country.

No one is saying that we are squeaky clean. No program is. TO self reported many minor violations during his time, the difference is, he didn't lie to the NCAA (supposedly and hopefully).

The cover up is always worse than the crime.

 

[Blaze1up]

It's TO, hell no.

 

[fro daddy]

Not correct, he held it for a period of time, thinking about it.

You may want to re-think that statement. From what I recall, TO got the gun from T. Williams, called the campus police to turn it over (but they never came to get it), gave it to Kevin Steele, who locked it away in his office. TO took off on a recruiting trip and the Lincoln police came to get it. When they came looking for it, it was turned over.

Besides, the T. Williams incident wasn't an "NCAA violation," for what that is worth.

We have our problems, just like every major program in the country.

No one is saying that we are squeaky clean. No program is. TO self reported many minor violations during his time, the difference is, he didn't lie to the NCAA (supposedly and hopefully).

The cover up is always worse than the crime.

I think that most people on here know that there were some questionable things that TO did, whether that be how he handled the William gun incident when knowing he used it to commit a crime or his policy on player conduct and the suspensions that he gave his top players when they did break the law. However to act like he was the ONLY one doing these things is silly. And I think that 74Hunter hit the nail right on the head in his post. No program is squeaky clean, but self reporting NCAA violations when they are discovered leads to at most ussually a warning. Not reporting and trying to cover them up, that leads to probation and firings.

its far worse to lie and try to cover it up than it is to self report

 

[skersfan]

I agree totally with what both of you are saying. But Coach Tressel has reported many things over the years as I understand it, I think Ohio State leads in reported infractions. What I am saying is that the man is a good man, made a mistake, tried not get caught at that mistake, and now is suffering for his choices. I just do not feel he is this evil, lying culprit some fee he is. From everything I have ever heard about him, he is good guy, does a lot for the community and the kids love him. Most feel he has been a positive on their lives.

I feel now that he is gone, but I think we are chasing a good man out because of a mistake, see Coach Solich, and that justice may be done, but will it be overboard. I think it is at this point.

 

[fro daddy]

I agree totally with what both of you are saying. But Coach Tressel has reported many things over the years as I understand it, I think Ohio State leads in reported infractions. What I am saying is that the man is a good man, made a mistake, tried not get caught at that mistake, and now is suffering for his choices. I just do not feel he is this evil, lying culprit some fee he is. From everything I have ever heard about him, he is good guy, does a lot for the community and the kids love him. Most feel he has been a positive on their lives.

I feel now that he is gone, but I think we are chasing a good man out because of a mistake, see Coach Solich, and that justice may be done, but will it be overboard. I think it is at this point.

I dont think he is some evil man who just happened to get caught. He made a fairly big mistake that I believe would have been forgiven. Then his mistake was compounded based on actions he took to try and cover his backside. Although schools love their winning teams, they will almost always dump a coach if it helps them save face/face lesser penalties

 

[CornHOLIO]

The only time I felt we might need to get rid of T.O. was in '95 when he allowed Christian Peter to stay and when he supposedly hid Riley Washington's gun from police.

 

[junior4949]

Not correct, he held it for a period of time, thinking about it.

You may want to re-think that statement. From what I recall, TO got the gun from T. Williams, called the campus police to turn it over (but they never came to get it), gave it to Kevin Steele, who locked it away in his office. TO took off on a recruiting trip and the Lincoln police came to get it. When they came looking for it, it was turned over.

Besides, the T. Williams incident wasn't an "NCAA violation," for what that is worth.

We have our problems, just like every major program in the country.

No one is saying that we are squeaky clean. No program is. TO self reported many minor violations during his time, the difference is, he didn't lie to the NCAA (supposedly and hopefully).

The cover up is always worse than the crime.

You're right, the T. Williams wasn't an NCAA violation. It was a violation of the laws that both you and I have to follow. What Tressel did will never land him in jail. However, TO broke some laws that some other people have broken that ended up in jail.

"Between 1991 and 1995, several women reported that Nebraska football players

had sexually and/or physically assaulted them. A few of the cases generated considerable

national publicity, casting the UNL in a disgraceful light. Although not as deplorable

as the violent acts themselves, the lack of an appropriate institutional response tended to

reproduce the extant rape culture. In each of the cases, Tom Osborne conducted

investigations himself. Most anywhere else in the United States, anyone else who

engaged in the activities in which Coach Osborne engaged would have been charged with

tampering with witnesses, evidence tampering, and obstruction of justice.

With a few exceptions, the accused perpetrators received no sanctions from Coach

Osborne, the Athletic Department, or the UNL. The victims, on the other hand, frequently

found it necessary to flee the university, their jobs, and even the state, as rabid

Husker fans blamed the victims for their gridiron heroes’ violent acts."

 

[Joe_5700]

Not correct, he held it for a period of time, thinking about it.

The tats and gold bling are very expensive, some would say thousands of dollars on some of these kids. Where does that comee from? The tats or gold is not illegal, but the acquireing of the money or path to get them is questionable. I have had several people mention those things to me about not just our team but pretty much every team.

We have our problems, just like every major program in the country.

What about the phones that they carry with data etc.? Who is paying these monthly rates? Not all of these kids are from poor, inner city, single family homes...

 

[knapplc]

You're right, the T. Williams wasn't an NCAA violation. It was a violation of the laws that both you and I have to follow. What Tressel did will never land him in jail. However, TO broke some laws that some other people have broken that ended up in jail.

"Between 1991 and 1995, several women reported that Nebraska football players

had sexually and/or physically assaulted them. A few of the cases generated considerable

national publicity, casting the UNL in a disgraceful light. Although not as deplorable

as the violent acts themselves, the lack of an appropriate institutional response tended to

reproduce the extant rape culture. In each of the cases, Tom Osborne conducted

investigations himself. Most anywhere else in the United States, anyone else who

engaged in the activities in which Coach Osborne engaged would have been charged with

tampering with witnesses, evidence tampering, and obstruction of justice.

With a few exceptions, the accused perpetrators received no sanctions from Coach

Osborne, the Athletic Department, or the UNL. The victims, on the other hand, frequently

found it necessary to flee the university, their jobs, and even the state, as rabid

Husker fans blamed the victims for their gridiron heroes’ violent acts."

Cite your sources. If you just post an excerpt from an article without a link I'm going to remove it.

Also, Benford has an axe to grind with college athletics. Not saying we didn't have significant issues in the 1990s, but he's hardly an unbiased source.

 

[junior4949]

You're right, the T. Williams wasn't an NCAA violation. It was a violation of the laws that both you and I have to follow. What Tressel did will never land him in jail. However, TO broke some laws that some other people have broken that ended up in jail.

"Between 1991 and 1995, several women reported that Nebraska football players

had sexually and/or physically assaulted them. A few of the cases generated considerable

national publicity, casting the UNL in a disgraceful light. Although not as deplorable

as the violent acts themselves, the lack of an appropriate institutional response tended to

reproduce the extant rape culture. In each of the cases, Tom Osborne conducted

investigations himself. Most anywhere else in the United States, anyone else who

engaged in the activities in which Coach Osborne engaged would have been charged with

tampering with witnesses, evidence tampering, and obstruction of justice.

With a few exceptions, the accused perpetrators received no sanctions from Coach

Osborne, the Athletic Department, or the UNL. The victims, on the other hand, frequently

found it necessary to flee the university, their jobs, and even the state, as rabid

Husker fans blamed the victims for their gridiron heroes’ violent acts."

Cite your sources. If you just post an excerpt from an article without a link I'm going to remove it.

Also, Benford has an axe to grind with college athletics. Not saying we didn't have significant issues in the 1990s, but he's hardly an unbiased source.

So, you won't take this as backing up those statements?

"I don't tell Tom Osborne how to run the football department," Lancaster County Attorney Gary Lacey says, "and he should stay out of the criminal justice system. He hasn't done that at all." According to Lacey, Osborne has taken it upon himself to interview witnesses in criminal cases, offered very public opinions on the probable innocence of players who have yet to stand trial and attacked the credibility of witnesses testifying against his players. In January 1994 he and an assistant even locked away a gun that had allegedly been used by one of his players in the commission of a felony.

SportsIllustrated Magazine, September 1995

 

[knapplc]

Junior, you have GOT to post a link to articles you quote.

#5– Do NOT Copy & Paste Original Content from Other SitesAt no times should content be copied and pasted on HuskerBoard without citing the source or linking directly to the content. Exclusive content provided by services such as Rivals and Scout should NEVER be copied and posted on HuskerBoard, even if you own a membership. Material on these sites that is NOT in the membership section can be posted only if you cite the source - or you may link directly to the content.

Do you know who Robert Benford is?