Curious Buckeye fan
- Thread starter SuperBuckFan08
- Start date
jaws
New member
Watch your mouth. I have to work in that crap hole of a town.
Everyone can hate on osu if they want. I can see why many fans of other teams do as well. However, I have traveled enough to see that other fan bases can be just as dumb and idiotic as some osu fans. I have spent enough fall Saturdays in Lincoln and Omaha to hear some husker fans sound just as dumb. The same goes for those in Ann arbor and other places around the big ten. The actions of few can make the masses look bad.
SI went to print knowing the facts of Ray Issacs getting paid by Mickey Monus and Tressel directed it from the beginning. I haven't seen a lawsuit by Issacs just yet that this is false. I am not holding my breath that one is coming from Mr Issacs. OJ Simpson says he didn't kill Nicole and Ron. Ray Issacs went on a radio program and denied this. Does that mean it didn't happen? Would SI go to print and refer to 1988 court documents that show that Monus and Tressel gave extra benefits to Issacs. Tressel skated since he was asked to go investigate himself on the most serious allegations.
Tressel hands are all over the Clarett situation with Tressel's brother being the go between Jim Tressel to get Clarett his extra benefits. All of tOSU nation turned their backs on Clarett since he turned on them and turned them in.
I think there is proof that Tressel has cheated as far back as his early days at YSU with Ray Issacs and a host of other players at YSU. I think it continued at tOSU and he finally was caught by a fluke federal investigation of Eddie Rife.
So if you ask a fan if a coach like Tressel has been cheating the game of college football since 1995 at YSU, would that be like what happened at SMU? Just as bad in my opinion.
Coqui
New member
Did any news source post that Thad Gibson got a car for free and posted it as fact?
SI, Yahoo, ESPN, Columbus Dispatch, etc. all said that. They posted it as fact and the BMV (DMV in some other states) investigated and found it incorrect.
So yes, SI would go to print without actually stating facts. In Fact, Dohrmann has been caught printing lies numerous times.
But yes, I expect people to assume he's a pathological lying cheating bastard. Because that's what they want to believe. That's human nature.
People automatically assume others are guilty without any real evidence. I've asked this numerous times and no one has really done this. I've asked the people that make the claim that Tressel's been cheating for 8 years, to post concrete evidence of the 8 years straight of cheating. The response? "Look it up yourself." I'm not the one making the statement. And there isn't proof of 8 years straight of cheating.
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jaws
New member
I think the truth is somewhere in between what the media is saying and the university. I have heard enough from people in Youngstown to know that it isn't as cut and dry as some (i.e. schuhbdoo) like to make it out to be. I also think that Clarett had problems that are far beyond what happened at OSU. To lay the blame solely on OSU and Tressel for that one is hard to swallow. In the end, people will hate OSU for the stuff that has happened in the past and the many games won on the field. It shouldn't really matter to OSU fans.
Coqui
New member
True, but you get tired of hearing it since 2003 (people saying we didn't really win that game)
knapplc
Active member
It's been 17 years and I'm still hearing about Lawrence Phillips over on BP. I don't think this sort of thing ever ends.
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husker B-rent
New member
if you cheated then you shouldnt have and that will be coming out soon so we will know if you won that game rightfully or not.
Coqui
New member
Well the NCAA already investigated and said there was nothing back then. That didn't stop people from saying we didn't really win the game. (actually it was the call at the end of the game - that one that was ranked one of the top 10 best calls by a referee group - that people say we should have really lost the game with.
Notre Dame Joe
New member
'Coqui'
People automatically assume others are guilty without any real evidence. I've asked this numerous times and no one has really done this. I've asked the people that make the claim that Tressel's been cheating for 8 years, to post concrete evidence of the 8 years straight of cheating. The response? "Look it up yourself." I'm not the one making the statement. And there isn't proof of 8 years straight of cheating.
You asked for someone to post info. Here is a little story written about Tressel that is 7 years old. It is very troubling. When I refer to cheating for 8 years, I am taking that from the SI article. This story is very damaging to Tressel and it 7 years old. The lying and cheating goes back many years according to this article. Enjoy.
The link below is the full article. I had to cut up the copy and paste to avoid any issues.
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/print?id=1920867&type=story
Friday, November 12, 2004
Updated: May 30, 1:03 PM ET
Souls of the departed haunt Youngstown
By Tom Farrey
ESPN.com
The relationship between Jim Tressel and Maurice Clarett dates back to their days in Youngstown.
For much of the past century, the smallish city of Youngstown was, remarkably, one of the steel capitals of the nation. Its mills and ethnic immigrants produced the raw material for cars, bombs, skyscrapers -- just about any object that enabled the rise of the United States as a world power. Jobs were plentiful, paychecks were fat, and crime was someone else's problem, save for the occasional mob-inspired car bombing that no one seemed to witness.
Clarett never knew that city on a hill. The Youngstown he was born into in 1983 was an unfolding tragedy of historic proportions. Beginning six years earlier with what locals came to call "Black Monday," virtually every steel mill along the river for 25 miles -- twenty-five miles -- shut down as the industry shifted production to overseas plants. With breathtaking speed, the town shrunk from 170,000 residents to 80,000. City life grew post-Apocalyptic: middle-age men, homeless and bankrupt, sleeping in boarded-up brick buildings. Suicides rising, seven fold. Child abuse so rampant, counselors needed counseling.
In headier days, Frank Sinatra and Dean Martin laid down the snapping rhythms of Youngstown on rotating stages in smoke-filled bars. Now it was the kind of bitter, broken place Bruce Springsteen would give voice to in a song named after the city.
Seven hundred tons of metal a day
Now sir you tell me the world's changed
Once I made you rich enough
Rich enough to forget my name.
* * *
But does a sense of entitlement alone put Ohio State in the crosshairs of NCAA investigators? No. College football is full of young studs who wish schools would share more of the revenue they are helping generate, or at least support their desire to tear down the tacit NFL-NCAA agreement that keeps a player from NFL money for three years after high school. For a full-on NCAA migraine, for one player's behavior to spiral out of control, it takes an enabler.
Jim Tressel arrived in Youngstown in 1986, the right man at the right time. As head coach at Youngstown State, he would go on to win four Division I-AA national titles between 1991 and '97, using mostly recruits from the now-devastated valley. But it wasn't just the success that endeared him to the locals. It was the image he projected that stood in contrast to that of depressed Youngstown.
Tressel looked like a minister in his trademark sweater vest and perfect haircut, and played the part, too, founding a Fellowship of Christian Athletes chapter at the school. His athletes traveled in coat and tie and said "Yes, ma'am" to airplane flight attendants. He talked constantly about his players as family and about the team as a tool for community pride. As many as 20,000 fans a game filled the team's downtown stadium, cheering for the Penguins -- and for the revival of a valley's heart. "That's what kept that city alive, the university and the hospitals," said Ray Isaac, quarterback on Tressel's first title team. "We were the toast of the town. We had parades. We had it all."
Isaac had more. As the NCAA would later learn, Isaac was taking money from a booster from virtually the moment he joined the team in 1988. A few hundred here, a thousand or so there, including $3,800 during the 1991 championship season. In all, Isaac got about $10,000, plus the use of various cars, during his career. Ray "The Colonel" Isaac was Tressel's original Maurice Clarett, a Youngstown kid with quick feet and open palms who would lift his team, and coach, to new heights.
Isaac's benefactor was Michael "Mickey" Monus, chairman of the university's board of trustees and a local hero in his own right. As the dazzling, if disheveled CEO of the rapidly expanding Phar-Mor discount drug store chain, he created thousands of local jobs. Sam Walton of Wal-Mart once called Monus the only businessman he feared, for he couldn't understand how the Youngstown-based company could open so many stores (300 in 33 states) so quickly. Walton would get his answer with a subsequent federal conviction: Monus was cooking the books, Enron-style. He remains in prison on corporate fraud crimes, his empire in shambles.
Monus declined ESPN.com's request for an interview. And Youngstown State isn't eager to share the contents of its investigation into the Monus-Isaac matter. Twice, high-ranking officials at the university promised to make the school's internal report available to ESPN.com, only to later deny its release. A university lawyer said that Youngstown State considers the report as among Isaac's student records, which cannot be released under open-records law due to privacy restrictions.
But this much is certain, based on an ESPN review of legal documents and other sources: Monus was no stranger to Tressel. A huge sports fan, Monus could be found on the sidelines during Penguin games. He was on the university athletics committee that hired Tressel. And, according to court testimony that eventually brought the Isaac payments to light, it was Tressel who directed Isaac to Monus at the start of his freshman year.
"I got a call from Mr. Tressel," Monus told a jury, "and I believe the call was that he wanted me to be introduced to Ray and to work out some kind of job for him."
Jim Tressel won four I-AA national titles at Youngstown State.
In their first meeting at the Phar-Mor corporate office, Isaac told Monus he had no money to go to a local fair. Monus gave him $150 for doing nothing. An enduring relationship was formed. "I found an avenue, a guy with a soft heart," Isaac told ESPN.com.
Isaac said Tressel never knew about the payments, and the NCAA found no evidence that he did. But as would be the case later with Clarett, questions would arise about how much Tressel and his bosses really wanted to know. In January 1994, a month after winning the team's second national title, Youngstown State got a letter from the NCAA notifying the school that an anonymous tipster had blown the whistle on Monus and Isaac. Just one month later, based on assurances by Tressel and athletic director Joe Malmisur, school president Leslie Cochran informed the NCAA that there was no substance to the allegations. The NCAA promptly dropped the matter.
Youngstown State's internal investigation was a sham. So little diligence went into pursuit of truth that Malmisur never confronted Monus with the allegations, nor apparently did Tressel contact Isaac, as Cochran said he had instructed them to do. Tressel, in a December 2003 interview, declined comment to ESPN.com on most aspects of the case but said he can't remember if he discussed the Monus allegations with his former player. Isaac is more definitive: "I didn't talk to nobody."
Later that year, Isaac called Tressel. At the time, Isaac was under investigation by the FBI for tampering with the lone juror who had refused to convict Monus in his first corporate fraud trial. Facing 17 years in prison unless he squealed on Monus, his sugar daddy, Isaac wanted Tressel's advice.
"This is what I know ... " Isaac told Tressel.
His mentor, as Isaac describes Tressel, cut him off before details flowed.
"I don't want to know what you know," Tressel said. "Just tell them the truth."
Isaac would confess to trying to bribe the juror. The U.S. justice system would be served. But the wheels of NCAA justice would wait four more years to begin turning again. They would start grinding on March 4, 1998, when Monus was on trial for jury tampering. Cochran said only then, when made aware of a local television report on Isaac's court testimony that day, did he realize that NCAA rules had been broken years earlier.
Now retired, Cochran looks back on the 1994 non-investigation by his athletic director and coach with embarrassment. "I feel like I got crapped on," he said.
Youngstown State would admit to a lack of institutional control and accept minor scholarship cuts. But avoiding the truth for so long served the team and city well. With the NCAA's statute of limitations on violations having expired in 1996 -- five years after Isaac left college -- the NCAA declined to strip Youngstown State of its beloved '91 national championship
Eleven months after the NCAA issued its decision, with no reprimand for Tressel at Youngstown, Ohio State athletic director Andy Geiger hired Tressel as the Buckeyes' new head coach.
Three days after that, Clarett, the nation's top high school running back, orally committed to Ohio State. Jim Tressel was a driving reason.
* * *
And once again, Tressel was faced with the question of how much he really wanted to know about his rainmaker. Clarett's recent contention that Tressel actually directed him to those who loaned him cars makes those questions more pressing.
"If there were problems with Maurice, Tress should have seen it," said Vince Marrow, an inner-circle advisor to Clarett and former NFL player.
The Columbus Dispatch reported last year Tressel had said during the national championship season that Dellimuti's name didn't ring a bell. In fact, Tressel had knowledge of Dellimuti before Clarett even played a game. When pressed by ESPN.com, Tressel said he first met Dellimuti in the spring before Clarett's freshman season when Dellimuti introduced himself after practice. "I knew he was a booster of the Warren high school program and a fellow who was very involved with coach McDaniel," Tressel said.
Tressel declined to detail any specific efforts he made to learn about Clarett's actions when rumors began to circulate about his receiving impermissible benefits. Speaking in general terms, he said, "Do I think I didn't work hard on trying to be cognizant of Maurice or anyone else? I think we've worked very hard on it. It's a difficult task. We need to do it better."
People automatically assume others are guilty without any real evidence. I've asked this numerous times and no one has really done this. I've asked the people that make the claim that Tressel's been cheating for 8 years, to post concrete evidence of the 8 years straight of cheating. The response? "Look it up yourself." I'm not the one making the statement. And there isn't proof of 8 years straight of cheating.
You asked for someone to post info. Here is a little story written about Tressel that is 7 years old. It is very troubling. When I refer to cheating for 8 years, I am taking that from the SI article. This story is very damaging to Tressel and it 7 years old. The lying and cheating goes back many years according to this article. Enjoy.
The link below is the full article. I had to cut up the copy and paste to avoid any issues.
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/print?id=1920867&type=story
Friday, November 12, 2004
Updated: May 30, 1:03 PM ET
Souls of the departed haunt Youngstown
By Tom Farrey
ESPN.com
The relationship between Jim Tressel and Maurice Clarett dates back to their days in Youngstown.
For much of the past century, the smallish city of Youngstown was, remarkably, one of the steel capitals of the nation. Its mills and ethnic immigrants produced the raw material for cars, bombs, skyscrapers -- just about any object that enabled the rise of the United States as a world power. Jobs were plentiful, paychecks were fat, and crime was someone else's problem, save for the occasional mob-inspired car bombing that no one seemed to witness.
Clarett never knew that city on a hill. The Youngstown he was born into in 1983 was an unfolding tragedy of historic proportions. Beginning six years earlier with what locals came to call "Black Monday," virtually every steel mill along the river for 25 miles -- twenty-five miles -- shut down as the industry shifted production to overseas plants. With breathtaking speed, the town shrunk from 170,000 residents to 80,000. City life grew post-Apocalyptic: middle-age men, homeless and bankrupt, sleeping in boarded-up brick buildings. Suicides rising, seven fold. Child abuse so rampant, counselors needed counseling.
In headier days, Frank Sinatra and Dean Martin laid down the snapping rhythms of Youngstown on rotating stages in smoke-filled bars. Now it was the kind of bitter, broken place Bruce Springsteen would give voice to in a song named after the city.
Seven hundred tons of metal a day
Now sir you tell me the world's changed
Once I made you rich enough
Rich enough to forget my name.
* * *
But does a sense of entitlement alone put Ohio State in the crosshairs of NCAA investigators? No. College football is full of young studs who wish schools would share more of the revenue they are helping generate, or at least support their desire to tear down the tacit NFL-NCAA agreement that keeps a player from NFL money for three years after high school. For a full-on NCAA migraine, for one player's behavior to spiral out of control, it takes an enabler.
Jim Tressel arrived in Youngstown in 1986, the right man at the right time. As head coach at Youngstown State, he would go on to win four Division I-AA national titles between 1991 and '97, using mostly recruits from the now-devastated valley. But it wasn't just the success that endeared him to the locals. It was the image he projected that stood in contrast to that of depressed Youngstown.
Tressel looked like a minister in his trademark sweater vest and perfect haircut, and played the part, too, founding a Fellowship of Christian Athletes chapter at the school. His athletes traveled in coat and tie and said "Yes, ma'am" to airplane flight attendants. He talked constantly about his players as family and about the team as a tool for community pride. As many as 20,000 fans a game filled the team's downtown stadium, cheering for the Penguins -- and for the revival of a valley's heart. "That's what kept that city alive, the university and the hospitals," said Ray Isaac, quarterback on Tressel's first title team. "We were the toast of the town. We had parades. We had it all."
Isaac had more. As the NCAA would later learn, Isaac was taking money from a booster from virtually the moment he joined the team in 1988. A few hundred here, a thousand or so there, including $3,800 during the 1991 championship season. In all, Isaac got about $10,000, plus the use of various cars, during his career. Ray "The Colonel" Isaac was Tressel's original Maurice Clarett, a Youngstown kid with quick feet and open palms who would lift his team, and coach, to new heights.
Isaac's benefactor was Michael "Mickey" Monus, chairman of the university's board of trustees and a local hero in his own right. As the dazzling, if disheveled CEO of the rapidly expanding Phar-Mor discount drug store chain, he created thousands of local jobs. Sam Walton of Wal-Mart once called Monus the only businessman he feared, for he couldn't understand how the Youngstown-based company could open so many stores (300 in 33 states) so quickly. Walton would get his answer with a subsequent federal conviction: Monus was cooking the books, Enron-style. He remains in prison on corporate fraud crimes, his empire in shambles.
Monus declined ESPN.com's request for an interview. And Youngstown State isn't eager to share the contents of its investigation into the Monus-Isaac matter. Twice, high-ranking officials at the university promised to make the school's internal report available to ESPN.com, only to later deny its release. A university lawyer said that Youngstown State considers the report as among Isaac's student records, which cannot be released under open-records law due to privacy restrictions.
But this much is certain, based on an ESPN review of legal documents and other sources: Monus was no stranger to Tressel. A huge sports fan, Monus could be found on the sidelines during Penguin games. He was on the university athletics committee that hired Tressel. And, according to court testimony that eventually brought the Isaac payments to light, it was Tressel who directed Isaac to Monus at the start of his freshman year.
"I got a call from Mr. Tressel," Monus told a jury, "and I believe the call was that he wanted me to be introduced to Ray and to work out some kind of job for him."
Jim Tressel won four I-AA national titles at Youngstown State.
In their first meeting at the Phar-Mor corporate office, Isaac told Monus he had no money to go to a local fair. Monus gave him $150 for doing nothing. An enduring relationship was formed. "I found an avenue, a guy with a soft heart," Isaac told ESPN.com.
Isaac said Tressel never knew about the payments, and the NCAA found no evidence that he did. But as would be the case later with Clarett, questions would arise about how much Tressel and his bosses really wanted to know. In January 1994, a month after winning the team's second national title, Youngstown State got a letter from the NCAA notifying the school that an anonymous tipster had blown the whistle on Monus and Isaac. Just one month later, based on assurances by Tressel and athletic director Joe Malmisur, school president Leslie Cochran informed the NCAA that there was no substance to the allegations. The NCAA promptly dropped the matter.
Youngstown State's internal investigation was a sham. So little diligence went into pursuit of truth that Malmisur never confronted Monus with the allegations, nor apparently did Tressel contact Isaac, as Cochran said he had instructed them to do. Tressel, in a December 2003 interview, declined comment to ESPN.com on most aspects of the case but said he can't remember if he discussed the Monus allegations with his former player. Isaac is more definitive: "I didn't talk to nobody."
Later that year, Isaac called Tressel. At the time, Isaac was under investigation by the FBI for tampering with the lone juror who had refused to convict Monus in his first corporate fraud trial. Facing 17 years in prison unless he squealed on Monus, his sugar daddy, Isaac wanted Tressel's advice.
"This is what I know ... " Isaac told Tressel.
His mentor, as Isaac describes Tressel, cut him off before details flowed.
"I don't want to know what you know," Tressel said. "Just tell them the truth."
Isaac would confess to trying to bribe the juror. The U.S. justice system would be served. But the wheels of NCAA justice would wait four more years to begin turning again. They would start grinding on March 4, 1998, when Monus was on trial for jury tampering. Cochran said only then, when made aware of a local television report on Isaac's court testimony that day, did he realize that NCAA rules had been broken years earlier.
Now retired, Cochran looks back on the 1994 non-investigation by his athletic director and coach with embarrassment. "I feel like I got crapped on," he said.
Youngstown State would admit to a lack of institutional control and accept minor scholarship cuts. But avoiding the truth for so long served the team and city well. With the NCAA's statute of limitations on violations having expired in 1996 -- five years after Isaac left college -- the NCAA declined to strip Youngstown State of its beloved '91 national championship
Eleven months after the NCAA issued its decision, with no reprimand for Tressel at Youngstown, Ohio State athletic director Andy Geiger hired Tressel as the Buckeyes' new head coach.
Three days after that, Clarett, the nation's top high school running back, orally committed to Ohio State. Jim Tressel was a driving reason.
* * *
And once again, Tressel was faced with the question of how much he really wanted to know about his rainmaker. Clarett's recent contention that Tressel actually directed him to those who loaned him cars makes those questions more pressing.
"If there were problems with Maurice, Tress should have seen it," said Vince Marrow, an inner-circle advisor to Clarett and former NFL player.
The Columbus Dispatch reported last year Tressel had said during the national championship season that Dellimuti's name didn't ring a bell. In fact, Tressel had knowledge of Dellimuti before Clarett even played a game. When pressed by ESPN.com, Tressel said he first met Dellimuti in the spring before Clarett's freshman season when Dellimuti introduced himself after practice. "I knew he was a booster of the Warren high school program and a fellow who was very involved with coach McDaniel," Tressel said.
Tressel declined to detail any specific efforts he made to learn about Clarett's actions when rumors began to circulate about his receiving impermissible benefits. Speaking in general terms, he said, "Do I think I didn't work hard on trying to be cognizant of Maurice or anyone else? I think we've worked very hard on it. It's a difficult task. We need to do it better."
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Wow, just wow!!! Please read this little paragraph about this Issacs QB that you are defending here. You mention you only get answers like, Look it up yourself. I looked up a little more on Mr Issacs. This is from 7 years ago. I never saw a lawsuit come from this as false but Issacs saying Dohrmann is lying is complete BS. The last paragraph shows Tressel has cheated since 1996 or when Issacs first got to campus at Youngstown State University. Is this really the first time? So, I need to amend my claim of 8 years and go with 15 years.
At the time, Isaac was under investigation by the FBI for tampering with the lone juror who had refused to convict Monus in his first corporate fraud trial. Facing 17 years in prison unless he squealed on Monus, his sugar daddy, Isaac wanted Tressel's advice.
"This is what I know ... " Isaac told Tressel.
His mentor, as Isaac describes Tressel, cut him off before details flowed.
"I don't want to know what you know," Tressel said. "Just tell them the truth."
Isaac would confess to trying to bribe the juror. The U.S. justice system would be served. But the wheels of NCAA justice would wait four more years to begin turning again. They would start grinding on March 4, 1998, when Monus was on trial for jury tampering. Cochran said only then, when made aware of a local television report on Isaac's court testimony that day, did he realize that NCAA rules had been broken years earlier.
Isaac's benefactor was Michael "Mickey" Monus, chairman of the university's board of trustees and a local hero in his own right. As the dazzling, if disheveled CEO of the rapidly expanding Phar-Mor discount drug store chain, he created thousands of local jobs. Sam Walton of Wal-Mart once called Monus the only businessman he feared, for he couldn't understand how the Youngstown-based company could open so many stores (300 in 33 states) so quickly. Walton would get his answer with a subsequent federal conviction: Monus was cooking the books, Enron-style. He remains in prison on corporate fraud crimes, his empire in shambles.
"I got a call from Mr. Tressel," Monus told a jury, "and I believe the call was that he wanted me to be introduced to Ray and to work out some kind of job for him."
linked: http://www.sbnation.com/hamsandwich/2011/4/25/2131987/jim-tressel-ohio-state-investigation
This info on Tressel cheating, yes I said cheating is from a federal jury trial and is undisputed evidence that Monus says Tressel is a cheater.
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huskerfan333157
New member
I cant believe people are hating on OSU so much. Folks, their violations may be serious but i gurantee u EVERY college has serious violations that dont go noticed and yes, our beloved Nebraska Huskers prolly have some as well
Mierin
Donor
I was going to argue with you that "prolly" was just laziness, but then I read the rest of his words.