I hope Turner or another QB gets a long hard look this offseason.

[Igetbored216]

Taylor did not lose the game for us... Had Abdullah not fumbled and Jeffry not caught that bomb at the end of the second quarter, it would have been a different game. You cannot go into the red zone TWICE against a good team like SC and come away empty handed. TWICE! We should have gone up 20-9 and it didn't happen. Instead SC takes a 16-13 lead. That's demoralizing...Our O-line also looked HORRIBLE in pass protection. Credit SC's D-line though. They were beasts. The better team won pure and simple. We need better line play to beat better teams. Games are won in the trenches... Have we all forgotten this?

He didn't win the game for NU either.

Look, go watch many of the other bowl games yesterday. Lots of teams suffered turnovers. Lots of teams faced "adversity."

Several of them fought through, fought back, won.

NU showed again that when the going gets rough, well, it will just get rougher. There is a trend there that is unmistakable.

Bingo. We have a winner. I don't need to read any further.

Martinez still has alot of work to do, but the problems on this team go much higher up than the QB.

Once is a fluke, twice is a coincidence, and three times is a trend. How many times have we seen these epic meltdowns; not only this year, but in previous years under Pelini? It almost reminds me of Bo losing his composure on the sideline and ripping into the ref for six or seven plays after the penalty was called. This team is the epitome of Bo Pelini.

 

[bshirt]

Ha ha wow! The difference is when they ran, they ran for open field or broke the tackle getting to it. You can talk about O-Lines all day but Taylor doesn't possess near the instincts those three men did.

The difference when they ran was what kind of blocking they had. You can talk about vague qualities like instincts all day long but Taylor doesn't have 10% as good of Oline as those three did.

He also doesn't have 10% of those vague qualities like instincts(see all the QB draw plays where he is normally sideways getting clobbered or when the pocket collapses and he looks completely lost). Not sure how you can say the offensive line isn't 10% as good. I mean, we did rush for over 200 yds per game, so that makes it more like 50 - 60% good since you are so big on statistics.

Oh, of course you're right that I can't quantify this year's Oline with the Olines we had in the 70s, 80s & 90s. It's just my eyeball test. 10% is too harsh, my error.

I just can't imagine any NU fan that would state our current Oline is anywhere even remotely close to the road-graders we used to have for performance "or" mistake frequency. Again, I think Tmart & SuperRex get a "lot" of their plays mostly due to their own ability (Tmart's unreal acceleration & SRex shaking off tackles like fies). Not due to rambling through massive holes that I.M. Hipp, Rozier, Redwine, DuBose, End Zone Jones, etc, ect used to see a lot almost every game. Put those two behind a Uncle Milt's Oline and they're unstoppable imo.

 

[Chaddyboxer]

I am sure we need another thread like this like an Eskimo needs ice.

The is a rant. I am not blaming the loss on Martinez, as it was quite the team effort.

The question I have, is Martinez a "difference maker"? I know stats-wise he measures up very well with past QBs, but what little bit extra does he bring to the table? Home run threat? Not against good teams with an athletic defense. Especially when they can tackle him with 2 hand touch rules. Do you think he does any "reading" in the zone read? I think that question was answered when he fakes a give and runs directly into two waiting defenders.

Passing? If you like nose-down rainbows. When he launched the TD pass to Bell, a collective groan filled the room. "Launches" like that are great for receivers running wide open and having a chance to wait on it. In the pocket he looks like the most non-athletic athletic QB that I have ever seen. I would rather have a statue back there that would at least step up to buy a little more time.

So if he doesn't really run, and can't really pass, what is he good at? What edge does he give us? He is without a doubt and athlete. I just don't think he is a "football" athlete.

The reason I mention Turner is because I believe him to be more of a football athlete. If we are going to running an option-type or zone read-type offense, we better have an athlete at QB. Dumb down the offense if we have to. We need to find something, anything we are good at. Right now I think Martinez is a net negative.

He ran quite well and actually passed fairly well against USC....this loss was far from Martinez's fault. Yeah, he made a few mistakes, but he also made some great plays. I honestly think he the option very well against USC....

 

[BigWillie]

BigWillie, I think everyone wants a QB who can distribute the ball to his playmakers. I think where people disagree is the degree to which Taylor is actually limiting the offense. People like me saw that he was 10/16 with a few drops by receivers yesterday, and see the flood of mistakes made by the offensive line, so I'm not going to come anywhere close to saying that Taylor is the problem with our offense when he's playing fine and everybody else is crapping their pants.

I see the mistake made by Taylor with the horrid INT on Monday. Literally, I have no clue if he thought Gilmore was one of our players or not, because he essentially hand delivered that INT. That INT also helped setup the pass to Ashlon going into the half. Instead of setting up a long FG for Maher, it is 7 points the other way.

I also see a QB who had no faith to push the ball into holes in zones. Quite a few folks will put that blame on the feet of the receivers for not getting open, but the real fact is that SC sat back playing a TON of zone coverages which dared Taylor to read coverages and fit the ball in spaces. Of course, Taylor is hesistant in pushing the ball unless a receiver was completely open. I don't know if I remember Taylor hitting a receiver outside of someone who was found a really open spot in a zone yesterday.

Flood of mistakes is a bit much considering 4 of our overall 10 penalties came on that single offensive drive. Three of those were on the line on that drive, with the other being a formation penalty. Outside of that single drive, the offensive line only had one penalty, which was a false start. Overall, the offensive line had a pretty clean game in the penalty department.

I'd also disagree with you about how much he contributes to the running game - we have backup running backs who could take Taylor's carries, but the running game wouldn't be as dynamic without a runner at QB. Having a runner at QB forces the defense to play everyone on the field, as opposed to just rotating different guys at running back with the same QB handing the ball off to them every time.

I don't think I really made a point as to how much he contributes to the run game in the way you are talking. I did question his production however, which is undeniable as evidenced by his statistical numbers show.

Furthermore, if we're going to use the option game as much as we do, we have to have a runner at QB. If you're suggesting we change systems AGAIN, then we're putting ourselves out of conference championship contention for the foreseeable future. We have to let Beck work, recruit the athletes he wants, and see how the offense develops over time (even beyond Martinez's tenure).

Is it impossible to have a capable running QB who can also pass? You can go just down the road to Mizzou and look at someone like James Franklin. Look at Logan Thomas at VA Tech. Look at Jordan Jefferson at LSU. Heck, look at Connor Shaw with South Carolina.

We did not run the option that much this year, so I'm not for certain why you mentioned it. Infact, we abandoned it early in the season because we ran it so horribly. Later in the season we brought it back.

Further, why would it require us to change offensive systems? And where do you event get that I am asking us to change offensive systems? I simply am asking for a more capable passer when we do pass, rather than a QB who is limited by his passing abilities. That absolutely does not require changing offensive philosophies, as there are plenty of QBs who are capable runners who can also pass.

As referenced above, there are more than a few run first offenses, with mobile QBs who are more than capable passers. Those are the types of QBs I think we should, and need to look more toward.

As far as changing QBs at this point in the program, right now - does anyone really think that Brion Carnes would have changed the outcome of yesterday's game? Would he have changed the outcome of a single game this season? MAYBE Wisconsin would have been less lopsided without Taylor's three picks. But do we beat Washington? Fresno State? Ohio State? What would have Carnes been able to do differently than Martinez in order to change the outcomes of the Northwestern, Michigan, or South Carolina games?

This is kinda the point - no one knows what this offense with our players would be capable of with more of a passing threat. We understand what this offense can do with Rex going 'Superman' week after week to save us. However, we have absolutely no idea how someone like Brion or Ron would effect our offense.

For anyone to say either way would be silly.

I do know two things though, when our team is behind and we need to attack more through the air, who would be more likely to bring us back? Whether Brion or Ron actually would is another question. And with an actual passing threat, those 8-9 man boxes that Rex is having to go 'Superman' through would dwindle as teams would actually have to back off clearing up running lanes and making life easier for our line and RBs.

Again, this isn't about overhauling the offense, or changing anything for that matter. Just simply finding that balance that doesn't allow teams to key in on a single aspect of our offense which can, at times, completely shut down our offense.

Remember the 1 yard of offense we had after Taylor broke that 36 yard run? Our run game left us, and so did our overall offense. That is the type of stagnation offensively we have to get away from. Having a capable passer helps us get there.

 

[Redtillimdead]

Time to say we gave this a shot unconditionally with a guy we thought gave us the best chance to win in the present as well as build for the future. Now after 2 years we aren't seein the type of results that are needed to take this team to another level. We need to bring in and along someone that allows us to use more of the playbook. We must be respected on offense and that means we are at anytime a threat to go to any facet of out gameplan. Currently I see us as letting score, emotion, momentum, down and distance make us one of the most predictable teams in the nation. So many times in those situations my friends or I will call out exactly the play before It is ran. This is not an indictment of taylors abilities or desire or heart or character as a person or player. This is an indictment on how taylors inadequacies and how they are limiting our options as an offense. We have an opportunity with his 2 years left to take what he does exceptionally well and incorporate those things into making our offense unbelievably diverse and dangerous from anywhere on the field. Nobody's perfect... But you get closer but admitting that you may not be the best guy for a certain job and could be better used elsewhere or making the tough decision and doing the hard thing and not the comfortable thing. I thing Bo has slot of trust in Taylor and hopefully he doesnt tie his loyalty to his tenure by being stubborn and close-minded. Let's hope he realizes this soon. No guarantees that the next guy in line is capable but at least we then know and can recruit accordingly. And this goes with all positions. Bos strengths are also why he shows weakness. Loyal to his guys but also gives them way too much rope. Maybe too much of a players coach, maybe needs to reel in the chain a little. Let's get behind the team and hope the powers that be can figure out the same things that all of us genius' have know for as long as we could type! GBR!!!

 

[Enhance]

This is a spot-on point and really something to chew on:

If Taylor is not able to be a legitimate home run threat on his runs, given his huge deficiencies as a passer, how much is he really giving this offense?

My only offering on this question is simple - who do we have on the roster that offers anything else? The truth is we don't know - only the coaches do. I won't say something like "either you trust them or you don't", but if Martinez is playing then the coaches feel Martinez gives us the best chance to win. Pelini has proven that he will pull a quarterback in favor of another, but he hasn't with Martinez. Therefore, either Pelini believes in Martinez or Carnes just isn't ready to be the Nebraska starter. The guys who are playing should be the guys who give us the best chance to win the most games and nothing more.

As far the Pelini-meltdown analogy, I don't know what kind of stock to put in this. Analyzing Pelini's 16 losses, I don't see this as others do. Texas Tech in 2009, Texas A&M in 2010 and also the 2010 Big 12 Championship game are the few examples outside of 2011 that fit the bill imho. I honestly believe this has more to do with a lack of talent and good coaching offensively over the last three years than anything else. Watson for 2009-2010 and now a new OC in 2011. And, as many of you know, I do not support Cotton nor what he does here. I'm a strong believer in a great offense/defense starting up front. We've had great defenses anchored by solid lines, yet we haven't had a great offense here. I think a lot of our issues would be remedied if we had a more consistent, effective offensive line that didn't shoot themselves in the foot all the time.

 

[Redtillimdead]

My opinion is that if carnes didn't get IT by now something is missing there. Hence the need to get 2 elite type QBs in this class as well as a walk on and maybe even giving marsh a shot... If I'm carnes, with all that falling around me I'm starting to see the writing on the wall!

 

[Enhance]

My opinion is that if carnes didn't get IT by now something is missing there. Hence the need to get 2 elite type QBs in this class as well as a walk on and maybe even giving marsh a shot... If I'm carnes, with all that falling around me I'm starting to see the writing on the wall!

I think it's too late to get an 'elite' quarterback at this point, but it's something that needs to be looked into for next years class without question. They don't need to be 'elite', persay, but they should be quality guys that can sit for at least two years, learn the playbook and then start vying for the starting job. But I'm sure many 'elite' high school quarterbacks want to go somewhere that is currently elite, or where they have a chance to start soon. Right now a quarterback sees Martinez who could possibly start for two more years and Carnes who will be here for three more. Furthermore, 'elite' quarterbacks won't fit Nebraska's scheme because most of them aren't overtly mobile like what we would need.

 

[chamrocck]

Watched Denard Robinson again tonight. He really is not that much better than TMart IMO. He is a better runner but often has much better blocking. Michigan players are blocking for him at the second level where TMart is usually being gang tackled. The big advantage DRob has is way better WR's...everytime I watch Michigan their WR's bail him out and/or make amazing catches, like the one in the back of the endzone tonight. Our WR's improved this year and despite the drops did make some good plays with TMart. But our OL doesn't know how to protect and is often overmatched which means TMart is usually under duress and he is not going to make good throws then. We need to fix the OL.

 

[Hercules]

I see the mistake made by Taylor with the horrid INT on Monday. Literally, I have no clue if he thought Gilmore was one of our players or not, because he essentially hand delivered that INT. That INT also helped setup the pass to Ashlon going into the half. Instead of setting up a long FG for Maher, it is 7 points the other way.

And I saw that as a miscommunication between QB and WR. I don't know who was wrong - either the WR wasn't in the right place, or the QB threw the ball to the wrong place. Doesn't matter on the final scoreboard, or in the minds of people who only watch the QB, but not every interception or incompletion is on the QB.

Flood of mistakes is a bit much considering 4 of our overall 10 penalties came on that single offensive drive. Three of those were on the line on that drive, with the other being a formation penalty. Outside of that single drive, the offensive line only had one penalty, which was a false start. Overall, the offensive line had a pretty clean game in the penalty department.

We had one penalty in the first half. We had 9 in the second half, that's what I meant by a "flood" of penalties. I don't care if you call it a "flood" or not, to say that the offensive line had a pretty clean game in the penalty department is insane.

I don't think I really made a point as to how much he contributes to the run game in the way you are talking. I did question his production however, which is undeniable as evidenced by his statistical numbers show.

Taylor finished the season with 837 yards rushing, averaging 4.9 ypc, which was slightly more efficient than Rex Burkhead's 4.8 ypc. What exactly are you seeing in his statistics that merits questioning his production?

Is it impossible to have a capable running QB who can also pass? You can go just down the road to Mizzou and look at someone like James Franklin. Look at Logan Thomas at VA Tech. Look at Jordan Jefferson at LSU. Heck, look at Connor Shaw with South Carolina.

Connor Shaw was 11/17 yesterday against our 36th ranked defense, while Taylor was 10/16 against USC's 4th ranked defense. Shaw threw for 114 more yards than Taylor did, but 51 of those came on the hail mary, and about 80 or so more came on the other bomb to Jeffrey. Are you sure we need somebody like Connor Shaw, or do we need somebody like Alshon Jeffrey?

Further, why would it require us to change offensive systems? And where do you event get that I am asking us to change offensive systems? I simply am asking for a more capable passer when we do pass, rather than a QB who is limited by his passing abilities. That absolutely does not require changing offensive philosophies, as there are plenty of QBs who are capable runners who can also pass.

I didn't know if you were advocating for changing the system and the type of QB, or just changing this QB. I'd love to have a more capable passer than Taylor. Just don't think that's nearly the biggest problem with our offense, and I don't think the key to solving this problem is to give the reins of the offense to someone else right now.

 

[Hercules]

I do know two things though, when our team is behind and we need to attack more through the air, who would be more likely to bring us back? Whether Brion or Ron actually would is another question. And with an actual passing threat, those 8-9 man boxes that Rex is having to go 'Superman' through would dwindle as teams would actually have to back off clearing up running lanes and making life easier for our line and RBs.
Again, this isn't about overhauling the offense, or changing anything for that matter. Just simply finding that balance that doesn't allow teams to key in on a single aspect of our offense which can, at times, completely shut down our offense.

I agree that right now, when we're behind, we aren't really capable of throwing the ball to come back. There's more that goes into that then just the passing ability of our QB (see our tackles trying to block USC's ends at the end of the game yesterday), but generally I agree.

However, what frustrated me yesterday wasn't that we weren't able to come from behind through the air - it was that we put ourselves in that position. We did that by giving USC 9 points in the first half, and blowing what should have been 13-17 of our own points. I mean, that's a 20 point swing. On top of that, our offense was constantly behind schedule in the second half due to penalties that put us in poor down and distance situations, which does set us up for failure given our passing game.

I guess, I simply don't see changing QBs as the logical solution to the problems we had yesterday. I think the solution is getting rid of all of those self-induced errors. We do that, and we're all feeling pretty good right now about our potential to beat a Michigan team next year that needed overtime to beat an average VaTech team.

 

[Enhance]

I do know two things though, when our team is behind and we need to attack more through the air, who would be more likely to bring us back? Whether Brion or Ron actually would is another question. And with an actual passing threat, those 8-9 man boxes that Rex is having to go 'Superman' through would dwindle as teams would actually have to back off clearing up running lanes and making life easier for our line and RBs.
Again, this isn't about overhauling the offense, or changing anything for that matter. Just simply finding that balance that doesn't allow teams to key in on a single aspect of our offense which can, at times, completely shut down our offense.

I agree that right now, when we're behind, we aren't really capable of throwing the ball to come back. There's more that goes into that then just the passing ability of our QB (see our tackles trying to block USC's ends at the end of the game yesterday), but generally I agree.

However, what frustrated me yesterday wasn't that we weren't able to come from behind through the air - it was that we put ourselves in that position. We did that by giving USC 9 points in the first half, and blowing what should have been 13-17 of our own points. I mean, that's a 20 point swing. On top of that, our offense was constantly behind schedule in the second half due to penalties that put us in poor down and distance situations, which does set us up for failure given our passing game.

I guess, I simply don't see changing QBs as the logical solution to the problems we had yesterday. I think the solution is getting rid of all of those self-induced errors. We do that, and we're all feeling pretty good right now about our potential to beat a Michigan team next year that needed overtime to beat an average VaTech team.

Well, Nebraska was in position yesterday to make a comeback in the third quarter, and it didn't require any passing. Most of the following is Sam McKewon's thoughts, but I completely agree with them. With something like 12 minutes left in the game, Nebraska down 23-13, we had plenty of time to run the ball and try to take it to USC. Instead, we put together a six play drive and we had to give the ball back - four of those plays were passing plays (this was also the same drive where Marlowe dropped a big pass).

I agree with you in that turnovers were the biggest issue in the first half. But the game was winnable all the way up through most of the fourth quarter. Furthermore, I don't think Martinez is the problem or that a new quarterback is the answer. Our team needs to have better player leadership, be able to deal with adversity better and we need to have better offensive playcalling. Beck is a first year coordinator, has time to improve and deserves it. While he had pretty good games this year, he also had some pretty bad ones. The drive where we threw the ball four of six times and punted is the perfect example. We didn't need to pass, and our offensive line did a fairly good job in the first half.

 

[bshirt]

I do know two things though, when our team is behind and we need to attack more through the air, who would be more likely to bring us back? Whether Brion or Ron actually would is another question. And with an actual passing threat, those 8-9 man boxes that Rex is having to go 'Superman' through would dwindle as teams would actually have to back off clearing up running lanes and making life easier for our line and RBs.
Again, this isn't about overhauling the offense, or changing anything for that matter. Just simply finding that balance that doesn't allow teams to key in on a single aspect of our offense which can, at times, completely shut down our offense.

I agree that right now, when we're behind, we aren't really capable of throwing the ball to come back. There's more that goes into that then just the passing ability of our QB (see our tackles trying to block USC's ends at the end of the game yesterday), but generally I agree.

However, what frustrated me yesterday wasn't that we weren't able to come from behind through the air - it was that we put ourselves in that position. We did that by giving USC 9 points in the first half, and blowing what should have been 13-17 of our own points. I mean, that's a 20 point swing. On top of that, our offense was constantly behind schedule in the second half due to penalties that put us in poor down and distance situations, which does set us up for failure given our passing game.

I guess, I simply don't see changing QBs as the logical solution to the problems we had yesterday. I think the solution is getting rid of all of those self-induced errors. We do that, and we're all feeling pretty good right now about our potential to beat a Michigan team next year that needed overtime to beat an average VaTech team.

I know that was one of the primary reasons for getting Clownahan and ditching smashmouth for fluffball. So we could "come back from behind".

Well, in four years Clownahan was 0 -19 when down at halftime. So much for that theory. Heck, Beck has already done that twice his 1st year with his "run first" offense. I think it just needs to get better at a lot of things but removing a big running threat at qb to be like everyone else is a losing deal for NU. The "balance" you get with a better throwing qb is lost and much more for removing our qb's severe run threat.

Tmart looked good with the option and his accleration looks to be returning as well. Vs a damn fine USC defense to boot. "Now" is absolutely not the time to start all over again. NU should have a better Oline next year and who knows? Maybe we'll actually develop a couple of wrs who can catch the ball.

GBR!!

 

[Igetbored216]

Watched Denard Robinson again tonight. He really is not that much better than TMart IMO. He is a better runner but often has much better blocking. Michigan players are blocking for him at the second level where TMart is usually being gang tackled. The big advantage DRob has is way better WR's...everytime I watch Michigan their WR's bail him out and/or make amazing catches, like the one in the back of the endzone tonight. Our WR's improved this year and despite the drops did make some good plays with TMart. But our OL doesn't know how to protect and is often overmatched which means TMart is usually under duress and he is not going to make good throws then. We need to fix the OL.

Well, Denard is definitely more elusive than Taylor. When a passing play breaks down, Denard is much more of a threat to take off and gash the defense with a big run than Taylor. Why? Because Denard runs AROUND the defenders and does run into the back of his o-linemen like Taylor does.

But our o-line is usually really underwhelming.

 

[lo country]

We do not. Martinez is not a drop back passer.

More like Martinez is not a passer.

As far as his middling passing goes, some of his best throws have come from in the pocket, going deep downfield. He is better in the pocket than he is rolling out, I think the token amount of rollouts we've seen him do is evidence of that. He's been OK at best here. As an example of someone who did real damage to us on the rollouts - I believe it was the freshman, non-mobile Fresno State QB, Derek Carr.

Beck needs to quit pulling a Wats and make us a run first ie RB/FB power team with play action and roll out passes our bread and butter.

How are we NOT a run first team that tries to hit the defense with deep playaction passes to keep them honest?

I think Martinez is more limited than you might think. It is not that two straight offensive coordinators have failed to realize the best use of the guy's talents: it is that he has three-to-four years, total, of QB experience under his belt and we have to work with all that inexperience.

Undoubtedly he brings something to the table, but it doesn't let us throw out any kind of package we want to. If it were that easy to maximize effectiveness from an athlete, we would throw in any old WR or RB at QB more often.

This is a spot-on point and really something to chew on:

If Taylor is not able to be a legitimate home run threat on his runs, given his huge deficiencies as a passer, how much is he really giving this offense?

That is what I was trying to convey. IMO, Beck puts Martinez in a no win situation. The play calling does not really support his limited skill set. He is incredibly fast........in a straight liine. He is not elusive and cannot scramble.

I do not think we are a run first team. I think that we are still trying to strike a balance between run and pass. The FB, still pretty much non-factor.

The deep ball is a hail mary bomb that is a much our ball as theirs. It does often come after play action, but again, why not more? Martinez completed approx 56% of his passes. What is the YAC? The majority of his throws although when caught, do not allow a receiver much more than point of catch/point of contact.

I agree with Big Willie, Martinez is not the guy to run this type of O. He does not have the skill set. Not a knock, just my opinion after seeing him for two years. On an offense predicated with a dual threat, he is neither. ie not elusive, cannot scramble, limited pocket presence.