I serve an amazing God

Enhance89 said:
Bye Bye Big XII said:
Enhance, I'd like to make one simple amendment to your statement. If the purpose of life is to procreate and continue on long enough to ensure their survival into the next generation, explain to me why grandparents (who have long since done enough to procreate and help their children move on to the next generation) are still around? It is, an interesting question (and note that I'm on your side of this argumentative fence)
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Well, after humans procreate, they live on just because they can. There's no murderous female waiting to end our life as soon as we're done having sex (jokes aside). I do think people should be trying to make the world a better place, but that's only because we CAN, not because it's some God-given purpose, if that makes sense.
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I have an answer to that question, and really was only trying to gauge different responses to that question, because it is an interesting one. Living on into old age makes almost absolute NO EVOLUTIONARY sense if you look at it from that perspective that we should live to procreate and advance the new population into their procreation stage. It does however make evolutionary sense if you look at it from the perspective of allocare or alloparenting. Meaning, grandparents often help with their children's children, ensuring their survival rate beyond what it would be had their parents (in a society like we have today) would give them.

It's really difficult to understand why some things are the way they are. Nearly impossible.

 
knapplc said:
Bye Bye Big XII said:
It's really difficult to understand why some things are the way they are. Nearly impossible.
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You have my respect (as does pretty much everyone in this thread) for taking the time to ponder these things, though.

Most people don't. It's a tragedy, in my opinion.
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I'm a psychology major, my whole purpose in any career as a psychologist is to understand behaviors and to improve anything related to behavior. You can do most of it through experimental analyses (such as factorials, multiple regressions, correlations, ANOVAs, Chi-squares, path analyses, meta analyses and so on). But at the end of the day all that gives you is data (beta weights, marginal means, simple means, etc...) Understanding why, though is a different reason...how come that treatment does better than no treatment or how come this technique works better than that technique?

At the end of the day, I really don't think we can ever truly know the answer. Behaviors are constructs, and constructs can only get us so far.

EDIT: better improve, like "'better improve' my writing skills" :faceplam:

 
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GM_Tood said:
Po Belini said:
carlfense said:
Po Belini said:
knapplc said:
So we've conclusively proven in this thread that Po Belini is as accurate as WebMD. :D
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Hey now! Don't insult me or If I ever have to x-ray you, Ill make sure I mis-position you so I have to repeat :) ...not like it will do anything though since getting a diagnostic x-ray is like being exposed to the sun.
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Radiologic tech? I've got a friend that does that.
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Still a student, so not registered yet.
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You looking to work in Omaha when you finish school?
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Hopefully, why?

 
Enhance89 said:
How can you almost guarantee this? The most basic purpose of organic life is to procreate and continue the species, and live long enough to do that. There's no way of arguing against this because it's undeniable fact, and it's not just prevalent in our ecosystem - it's prevalent in all ecosystems.

That's an easy answer for people of faith, but it doesn't help those who don't see things that way. Animals are very protective of their young, and they experience pain/suffering, yet they've been around far longer than the biblical Adam and Eve, because they were humans, no? How do we explain pain and suffering that predates Christianity?
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Just a couple things;
If the most basic purpose of organic life is to procreate and continue the species, could you please explain the most basic purpose of life for gay/lesbian people? For people who are sterile?

I don't get where you're going with the 2nd bolded part of your post. Adam and Eve do predate Christianity. And if you want to go down the road of humans predating Adam & Eve, then I guess I would need to see what proof you have to offer of human pain and suffering predating Adam & Eve.

And, just to be clear, I respect your right to not believe in God and to hold different beliefs. I simply believe differently than you and some others here. As much as some of you seem to be convinced there is no God, I am equally or moreso convinced that there is in fact a God. I'm kind of stubborn but seems to me, after all of these types of discussions I have engaged in, that somebody would've changed my mind if it was as painfully obvious as some of you act like it is. If it's not that obvious, I guess I don't understand treating it like it is proven fact and acting like us believers must somehow be slightly touched in the head. I understand how a person could arrive at a lack of belief but it doesn't seem that same level of understanding is ever reciprocated to those of us who do believe in a higher power. Maybe it's just me....

 
JJHusker1 said:
If the most basic purpose of organic life is to procreate and continue the species, could you please explain the most basic purpose of life for gay/lesbian people? For people who are sterile?

I don't get where you're going with the 2nd bolded part of your post. Adam and Eve do predate Christianity. And if you want to go down the road of humans predating Adam & Eve, then I guess I would need to see what proof you have to offer of human pain and suffering predating Adam & Eve.

And, just to be clear, I respect your right to not believe in God and to hold different beliefs. I simply believe differently than you and some others here. As much as some of you seem to be convinced there is no God, I am equally or moreso convinced that there is in fact a God. I'm kind of stubborn but seems to me, after all of these types of discussions I have engaged in, that somebody would've changed my mind if it was as painfully obvious as some of you act like it is. If it's not that obvious, I guess I don't understand treating it like it is proven fact and acting like us believers must somehow be slightly touched in the head. I understand how a person could arrive at a lack of belief but it doesn't seem that same level of understanding is ever reciprocated to those of us who do believe in a higher power. Maybe it's just me....
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I can be corrected, but (current) humans are one of the few, if not the only, species that sees definitive lines between being gay, lesbian or straight. Several other species have homosexual tendencies, but they still procreate with females to continue the species. I still don't see any way of really denying this isn't the most basic purpose of life. Getting into discussions on other purposes seems more like spiritual or religious reasoning.

My evidence to this point is looking at the majority of species on this planet. They're born, they live, they procreate, they die - leaving the world no different than when they found it. They don't think about a greater purpose in life because they don't have the ability to. I believe humans should try and have other purposes in life than to just procreate, but that's only because we have the ability, not because 'God' wills it or something like that. But, again, I just don't see a formidable argument against saying the most basic purpose of all life is to procreate and continue the species. If that wasn't the ultimate purpose, we'd be no more.

I mean...what...our purpose is really to "leave the world a better place, and if you have the time, go ahead and pop a baby out. But, no pressure."

???

 
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I guess I just don't see a purpose to this life if we simply cease to exist in any form when our earthbound bodies wear out. Sure it is worthy and admirable to live a good life, procreate, and try to leave this world to better than when we entered it but it isn't required for survival of the species. Well, except for the procreating part but any animal can create offspring. If we have no higher purpose than a cockroach or mosquito then we really have no purpose. That is only one of the reasons I believe in a creator and choose to participate in a religion and be at least somewhat concerned about what I believe is my eternal soul.

I engage in these discussions (against the advice of my religion) in the seemingly bizarre hopes that someone can convince me that I've got it all wrong. I guess that is partially how I try to assure I'm on the correct path and not deluding myself or being manipulated by religion. All I can say is that my faith and religion have a decisive lead in the quest. Every once in awhile I will try to share what I have found to be the truth in the hope that it might help others reassess their path. I respect others rights to believe as they choose but I am baffled that so many of us can come to such different conclusions based on the same information. It would be either really boring or extremely beautiful if we all agreed I guess.

 
JJHusker1 said:
I guess I just don't see a purpose to this life if we simply cease to exist in any form when our earthbound bodies wear out. Sure it is worthy and admirable to live a good life, procreate, and try to leave this world to better than when we entered it but it isn't required for survival of the species. Well, except for the procreating part but any animal can create offspring. If we have no higher purpose than a cockroach or mosquito then we really have no purpose. That is only one of the reasons I believe in a creator and choose to participate in a religion and be at least somewhat concerned about what I believe is my eternal soul.

I engage in these discussions (against the advice of my religion) in the seemingly bizarre hopes that someone can convince me that I've got it all wrong. I guess that is partially how I try to assure I'm on the correct path and not deluding myself or being manipulated by religion. All I can say is that my faith and religion have a decisive lead in the quest. Every once in awhile I will try to share what I have found to be the truth in the hope that it might help others reassess their path. I respect others rights to believe as they choose but I am baffled that so many of us can come to such different conclusions based on the same information. It would be either really boring or extremely beautiful if we all agreed I guess.
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That arrogance is one of the things that turns me off to religion. The idea that we have to have a "higher purpose" than other animals. Just because we developed better cognative abilities through evolution is no good reason to believe we're involved in some sort of divinity.

It boggles my mind that so many people can come to the conclusion that there is a god, without a shred of evidence. You've admitted your goal is to convince yourself that you're on the right path, not necessarily to find the truth. If finding the truth is really what you wanted, you'd look at it objectively and critically and likely come to the conclusion that there is no evidence that god exists, and you're a Christian because you're socialized to be a Christian. If you were born into a Muslim culture, you'd be Muslim. Not because what Muslims believe is true, but because that's what you were told is the truth your whole life, and you didn't have the balls to really question it.

 
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GM_Tood said:
Isn't the whole arguement, for those that believe in God, around 'why do people suffer, not live a long life, etc'... answered by Genisis Chapter 3? It wasn't until man chose the way of Satan, rather than the way of God, that sorrow entered the world. Man sins against God in Genesis 3:6-7, and God reveals to Adam and Eve the consequences of sin in Genesis 3:16-19. God told Adam and Eve that they would now experience sorrow and death. Therefore, the suffering and sorrow that you and I face today is not the work of an unjust God; it's the consequences of sin.
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the snake was never Satan. In the Old Testament whenever Satan made his appearance known or was talked about the name Satan was always used and never by any other name or creature.

 
The Dude said:
JJHusker1 said:
I guess I just don't see a purpose to this life if we simply cease to exist in any form when our earthbound bodies wear out. Sure it is worthy and admirable to live a good life, procreate, and try to leave this world to better than when we entered it but it isn't required for survival of the species. Well, except for the procreating part but any animal can create offspring. If we have no higher purpose than a cockroach or mosquito then we really have no purpose. That is only one of the reasons I believe in a creator and choose to participate in a religion and be at least somewhat concerned about what I believe is my eternal soul.

I engage in these discussions (against the advice of my religion) in the seemingly bizarre hopes that someone can convince me that I've got it all wrong. I guess that is partially how I try to assure I'm on the correct path and not deluding myself or being manipulated by religion. All I can say is that my faith and religion have a decisive lead in the quest. Every once in awhile I will try to share what I have found to be the truth in the hope that it might help others reassess their path. I respect others rights to believe as they choose but I am baffled that so many of us can come to such different conclusions based on the same information. It would be either really boring or extremely beautiful if we all agreed I guess.
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That arrogance is one of the things that turns me off to religion. The idea that we have to have a "higher purpose" than other animals. Just because we developed better cognative abilities through evolution is no good reason to believe we're involved in some sort of divinity.

It boggles my mind that so many people can come to the conclusion that there is a god, without a shred of evidence. You've admitted your goal is to convince yourself that you're on the right path, not necessarily to find the truth. If finding the truth is really what you wanted, you'd look at it objectively and critically and likely come to the conclusion that there is no evidence that god exists, and you're a Christian because you're socialized to be a Christian. If you were born into a Muslim culture, you'd be Muslim. Not because what Muslims believe is true, but because that's what you were told is the truth your whole life, and you didn't have the balls to really question it.
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If there were actualy any evidence that said there is NOT a God, I'm sure JJHusker (and also myself) would have no choice but not to believe in God. Seeing that there is ZERO evidence that has come forth to prove that God does not exist, I--for one--will continue believing until this evidence is shown. Everybody on this forum who believes something other than Christianity (whatever that may be) always asks us to let them believe what they want to believe and then berates us who believe in God and that Jesus saved us from our sins for "having an imaginary friend" or are "ignorant."

If you want me to let you believe what you want to believe, I ask you do the same for everyone else on this board.

 
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