Martinez QB Camp Update

bshirt said:
ZRod said:
bshirt said:
Yeah, I see yours as well. Especially 2010 when he literally could barely walk. I know Z. Lee was totally banged up and C. Green...well, maybe wasn't great but at least he could stand up straight and walk without huge pain. I surely agree that was strange.
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Don't forget that at one point he was dinged up as well, and may have finished the Iowa State game with a concussion.
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Oh yeah, I forgot about that. Yepper, it could very well have been Bo's choice's were zilch.
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all good points, thanks guys.

 
zoogies said:
Well, Taylor isn't that good of a passer. It's the truth. We build our offense around Taylor and we aren't loading up a passing attack back there.

We just need him to get a grasp of reading defenses pre-snap, settle down in the pocket, and have better placement in his throws. Then do his damage on the ground, let Rex & co do their damage on the ground, and be able to hit the change-up playaction deep enough times to do real damage.

None of this makes Taylor individually one of the most superlative players we've ever had at the position. Although if he turns in more 2010-esque running campaigns, he may well vault himself into the ranks of one of the better running QBs we have had.

By the way I'm not down on Bo, but I'm not exactly sold either. Like Taylor, the next season or two will be proving grounds for him. If we slip up and get only 8 wins this season, it will set off some alarm bells. It would not be hard for either to buy themselves a lot of rope this year though.
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And the problem with not being a good passer means...when NU gets in a hole, and teams key on the running game...what is left? It's Taylor trying to shove a square peg into a round hole. EVERY TIME. Give up the run. In the 80's and 90's, it wasn't a deal-breaker, because Osborne knew that even if it wasn't working initially, NU could (and usually would) wear down a team and get the holes formed and the points on the board. But now...it just isn't happening. the OSU game was a scent of that, but the line play just isn't consistent enough to guarantee anything like that. And there is the problem...being forced to put Taylor into positions that he isn't as well adapted to.

 
Foppa said:
zoogies said:
Well, Taylor isn't that good of a passer. It's the truth. We build our offense around Taylor and we aren't loading up a passing attack back there.

We just need him to get a grasp of reading defenses pre-snap, settle down in the pocket, and have better placement in his throws. Then do his damage on the ground, let Rex & co do their damage on the ground, and be able to hit the change-up playaction deep enough times to do real damage.

None of this makes Taylor individually one of the most superlative players we've ever had at the position. Although if he turns in more 2010-esque running campaigns, he may well vault himself into the ranks of one of the better running QBs we have had.

By the way I'm not down on Bo, but I'm not exactly sold either. Like Taylor, the next season or two will be proving grounds for him. If we slip up and get only 8 wins this season, it will set off some alarm bells. It would not be hard for either to buy themselves a lot of rope this year though.
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And the problem with not being a good passer means...when NU gets in a hole, and teams key on the running game...what is left? It's Taylor trying to shove a square peg into a round hole. EVERY TIME. Give up the run. In the 80's and 90's, it wasn't a deal-breaker, because Osborne knew that even if it wasn't working initially, NU could (and usually would) wear down a team and get the holes formed and the points on the board. But now...it just isn't happening. the OSU game was a scent of that, but the line play just isn't consistent enough to guarantee anything like that. And there is the problem...being forced to put Taylor into positions that he isn't as well adapted to.
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Oh, I agree with you.

However, "if" Tmart's gap-speed really is back to 2010 level and with our young OLine talent coming in we're going to be difficult to stop and/or forced to throw the ball all over the place (SW style). If we can somehow round up a couple WRs who can actually catch the ball then even more so.

:koolaid2:

 
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bshirt said:
Except for first five games his freshman season T. Frazier did. Tmart is on track to totally blow away his records.

Frazier 509 passes for 49.1% completion ratio - 4003 yds - 47 TDs -18 interceptions

TMart 484 passes for 57.4% completion ratio - 3720 yds - 23 TDs - 15 interceptions

Frazier 386 rushes for 2263 yds (5.86 YPC) - 36 TDs

Tmart 350 rushes for 1839 yds (5.25 YPC) - 21 TDs

Again, this is only comparing Tmart's freshman & soph stats vs T. Frazier's career stats. Now, Tmart will probably end up playing 10 or more games than Frazier to be sure. But he's almost at Frazier's numbers "now".

However, also to be sure, only the truly deaf, dumb and blind can't see the monster sized different levels of talent between each qb's surrounding Oline, WRs, RBs, blackshirts & coaches.
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i never really looked at the two though they've been posted on here countless times over the last couple of years. it's crazy that in just 2 years t-mart has almost as many pass attempts/rushes as Frazier did his entire career. goes to show you it was a very different football team/offense back then. i still think comparing the two is apples-oranges. this is clearly a case where the stats can be twisted to suit whatever position you take.

 
kchusker_chris said:
bshirt said:
Except for first five games his freshman season T. Frazier did. Tmart is on track to totally blow away his records.

Frazier 509 passes for 49.1% completion ratio - 4003 yds - 47 TDs -18 interceptions

TMart 484 passes for 57.4% completion ratio - 3720 yds - 23 TDs - 15 interceptions

Frazier 386 rushes for 2263 yds (5.86 YPC) - 36 TDs

Tmart 350 rushes for 1839 yds (5.25 YPC) - 21 TDs

Again, this is only comparing Tmart's freshman & soph stats vs T. Frazier's career stats. Now, Tmart will probably end up playing 10 or more games than Frazier to be sure. But he's almost at Frazier's numbers "now".

However, also to be sure, only the truly deaf, dumb and blind can't see the monster sized different levels of talent between each qb's surrounding Oline, WRs, RBs, blackshirts & coaches.
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i never really looked at the two though they've been posted on here countless times over the last couple of years. it's crazy that in just 2 years t-mart has almost as many pass attempts/rushes as Frazier did his entire career. goes to show you it was a very different football team/offense back then. i still think comparing the two is apples-oranges. this is clearly a case where the stats can be twisted to suit whatever position you take.
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Chris, how has anybody "twisted" these numbers? I think you're just trying to say numbers or results don't mean anything because they don't back up your agenda.

I don't intend to be harsh but..."duh!".....of course we pass the ball more than TO's team's did because we don't have anything even remotely close to the power running game they had (not to mention talent). So again....duh!....we try to get the ball to our playmakers because power football simply doesn't work anymore. Certainly not consistently to say the least. Any casual fan who's followed NU cfb for awhile knows that.

Pointing a simple, obvious observation backed with numbers is hardly "clearly a case where the stats can be twisted to suit whatever position you take". Again, I think you just don't like the numbers or results.

But my old friend, I just can't resist telling you that those numbers Tmart has so far compiled were accomplished with an Oline, WRs & OC that weren't 25% as good as what Frazier had. That should really get you fired up. :-)

 
kchusker_chris said:
bshirt said:
Except for first five games his freshman season T. Frazier did. Tmart is on track to totally blow away his records. Frazier 509 passes for 49.1% completion ratio - 4003 yds - 47 TDs -18 interceptions TMart 484 passes for 57.4% completion ratio - 3720 yds - 23 TDs - 15 interceptions Frazier 386 rushes for 2263 yds (5.86 YPC) - 36 TDs Tmart 350 rushes for 1839 yds (5.25 YPC) - 21 TDs Again, this is only comparing Tmart's freshman & soph stats vs T. Frazier's career stats. Now, Tmart will probably end up playing 10 or more games than Frazier to be sure. But he's almost at Frazier's numbers "now". However, also to be sure, only the truly deaf, dumb and blind can't see the monster sized different levels of talent between each qb's surrounding Oline, WRs, RBs, blackshirts & coaches.
Click to expand...
i never really looked at the two though they've been posted on here countless times over the last couple of years. it's crazy that in just 2 years t-mart has almost as many pass attempts/rushes as Frazier did his entire career. goes to show you it was a very different football team/offense back then. i still think comparing the two is apples-oranges. this is clearly a case where the stats can be twisted to suit whatever position you take.
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Total yards might not be the most informing stat to look at given the different offenses, but completion percentages and yards per carry are pretty timeless.

It should also be mentioned that no sane person on this board truly believes that Taylor Martinez is as good or better than Tommie Frazier. The point of comparing the two is to say that Martinez holds up pretty well against Frazier, and that's MORE than what anybody should expect from our QB. If you're waiting for some guy to come in and be better than Tommie Frazier was, you're going to be waiting a long, long time. Taylor Martinez is the first QB since Crouch that's even worth comparing to Frazier, and not enough fans are thankful for that.

 
zoogies said:
Let's assume that the line is going to be "solid." Not 1995 Nebraska, but just solid.

In that case, I propose that Taylor's veteran savvy and leadership will be the make or break between a decent season and a very good one. A merely solid line usually cannot by itself carry this team to a CCG win. I mean, unless the defense becomes all kinds of spectacular again.

We agree that if the line is awful, we will have a bad season no matter what anybody else does.
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I think we probably have different definitions of what "solid" o-line play is. The 1994-95 offensive lines and the 1982-83 offensive lines were possibly the best offensive lines ever in college football. It's not fair to compare our current line to them.

However, Athlon Sports just rated our offensive line the #4 line in the conference. Not only would that have been laughable in 1995, but it would have been laughable pretty much from 1970-2001. Even in years where we didn't win national championships, we still had tremendous offensive lines. We still had Will Shields, Dominic Raiola, Toniu Fonoti, etc.

For example, from 1990-2003, there were only three seasons where we didn't have an offensive lineman on the first or second All-America team (1990, 1998, 2003). We haven't had anyone since that era ended. This is Nebraska - until we get back to having a dominant presence in the trenches on both sides of the ball, we're not going to be tops in the conference, no matter how good our QB is.

 
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bshirt said:
kchusker_chris said:
bshirt said:
Except for first five games his freshman season T. Frazier did. Tmart is on track to totally blow away his records.

Frazier 509 passes for 49.1% completion ratio - 4003 yds - 47 TDs -18 interceptions

TMart 484 passes for 57.4% completion ratio - 3720 yds - 23 TDs - 15 interceptions

Frazier 386 rushes for 2263 yds (5.86 YPC) - 36 TDs

Tmart 350 rushes for 1839 yds (5.25 YPC) - 21 TDs

Again, this is only comparing Tmart's freshman & soph stats vs T. Frazier's career stats. Now, Tmart will probably end up playing 10 or more games than Frazier to be sure. But he's almost at Frazier's numbers "now".

However, also to be sure, only the truly deaf, dumb and blind can't see the monster sized different levels of talent between each qb's surrounding Oline, WRs, RBs, blackshirts & coaches.
Click to expand...
i never really looked at the two though they've been posted on here countless times over the last couple of years. it's crazy that in just 2 years t-mart has almost as many pass attempts/rushes as Frazier did his entire career. goes to show you it was a very different football team/offense back then. i still think comparing the two is apples-oranges. this is clearly a case where the stats can be twisted to suit whatever position you take.
Click to expand...

Chris, how has anybody "twisted" these numbers? I think you're just trying to say numbers or results don't mean anything because they don't back up your agenda.

I don't intend to be harsh but..."duh!".....of course we pass the ball more than TO's team's did because we don't have anything even remotely close to the power running game they had (not to mention talent). So again....duh!....we try to get the ball to our playmakers because power football simply doesn't work anymore. Certainly not consistently to say the least. Any casual fan who's followed NU cfb for awhile knows that.

Pointing a simple, obvious observation backed with numbers is hardly "clearly a case where the stats can be twisted to suit whatever position you take". Again, I think you just don't like the numbers or results.

But my old friend, I just can't resist telling you that those numbers Tmart has so far compiled were accomplished with an Oline, WRs & OC that weren't 25% as good as what Frazier had. That should really get you fired up. :-)
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I actually wasn't taking a position on the matter. Was more shocked than anything. To think that he's put up these numbers, and still has the best 2 years of his career still left is amazing. It's something I've been hoping for for the last 6-7 years. I was quickly tiring of our 1 and done QBs.

Sorry bshirt, I should have avoided quoting you knowing you go postal on such a frequent basis around here that it's almost laughable. I didn't mean to suggest anything negative in regards to tmart. put the weapons down.

 
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Martinez, other QBs share bond on field
The Manning Passing Academy is about learning and making friends, and that is what Nebraska quarterback Taylor Martinez has done.

Martinez was one of the numerous college quarterbacks working as a camp coach at the Manning Passing Academy held at Nicholls State in Thibodaux over the weekend.

Even though the college quarterbacks in attendance all come from different backgrounds, the position they play lends to a quick sense of camaraderie.

"So far, I think we have all gotten along well. I do know two or three quarterbacks outside of here, but I met a lot of them here and I like it," Martinez said. "I've been to camps before. It was more offense and defense camp that didn't have any college quarterbacks. This is a huge camp with all the quarterbacks, and I'm glad I got invited."
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Almost started an new topic glad i checked in here first, knap beat me to it.

Based on the picture in the article knappy posted he looks alot better. Arm slot is higher, and he not dipping his back shoulder. If he can just square up to his target by moving his feet and then stepping into his throw and to his target better he will be alot better. It will be exciting to see how much he has improved. If he can go up to around 60% completion %, our offense will be hard to stop.

 
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