9 wins - a good measuring stick?

[junior4949]

Here is the most telling part of Chatelain's investigation...

Yes, Nebraska is one of only four teams (Alabama, Boise State, Oregon) to win nine games the past five years. But it’s sort of like saying Georgia Tech is one of only five schools to go to 15 straight bowl games (that’s true).

Look at the final AP rankings for ‘Bama, Boise and Oregon since ’08:

Alabama: 6, 1, 10, 1, 2 (currently)

Boise: 11, 4, 9, 8, 19

Oregon: 10, 11, 3, 4, 4

Cumulatively, those schools have had one finish outside the top-11. One.

Nebraska’s best finish is 14th. And if the Huskers lose the bowl game, this will likely be the third time in five years NU finishes out of the Top 25. You know how many times Osborne did that? Zero.

To me, this speaks volumes to the quality of our wins vs. the quality (lack thereof) of our losses. Unlike Bama, Boise and Oregon, we haven't shown much at all in the arena of winning big games, and that is what hurts the 9-win argument the most.

An in addition to that, 9 wins used to earn the Huskers a top 10 ranking every year. 9 wins today barely gets us into the top 25. In fact we'll likely fall out with 10 wins after the bowl games.

The one thing that Dirk did not bring up, though was that with Boise St Petersen took over a strong program in a weak conference that Dan Hawking built. With Oregon, Kelly took over a program on the rise when Belotti retired. With Alabama, Saban took over for a program that was stagnant but not necessarily as bad as what the Huskers were when Pelini came in. So the point I am trying to make is that Kelly and Petersen have maintained and excelled since taking over. Saban dominated after his first year (6-6). Pelini has done a pretty good job all things considered.

Dan Hawkins did not build the Boise State program. It was Koetter who built Boise State. He was hired away by Arizona State, and was then fired by Arizona State. This is why I'd be very scared of hiring Petersen considering how the two coaches before him performed once they left the safe haven of Boise, ID. Saben took over a Bama program riddled with sanctions. Bama was not very good, and Franchione bolted when the program got hit with even more sanctions.

If you want to compare us and our situation to another team, you should look no further than Florida. Zook was a pretty good recruiter, but he was a horrible coach. Meyer walked in and immediately turned things around. Clownahan was a pretty good recruiter, but he was a horrible coach. Bo hasn't quite got us around the corner yet. The biggest difference between Bo and Meyer is the fact that Bo hasn't recruited nearly as well.

 

[skersfan]

Which team looks like they are truly headed in the right direction. K State or Nebraska?

Good coaching brings quality play or at least an avenue to get there.

 

[junior4949]

The problem with KState is the fact that they'll end up in the exact same place as they found themselves in the last time Snyder retired. Snyder's a great coach, and he puts in horrendous hours. I don't see them finding another coach like him when he retires again which probably isn't that far away. It sucks that they imploded against Baylor. Snyder deserved a NC before his retirement.

 

[StPaulHusker]

Here is the most telling part of Chatelain's investigation...

Yes, Nebraska is one of only four teams (Alabama, Boise State, Oregon) to win nine games the past five years. But it’s sort of like saying Georgia Tech is one of only five schools to go to 15 straight bowl games (that’s true).

Look at the final AP rankings for ‘Bama, Boise and Oregon since ’08:

Alabama: 6, 1, 10, 1, 2 (currently)

Boise: 11, 4, 9, 8, 19

Oregon: 10, 11, 3, 4, 4

Cumulatively, those schools have had one finish outside the top-11. One.

Nebraska’s best finish is 14th. And if the Huskers lose the bowl game, this will likely be the third time in five years NU finishes out of the Top 25. You know how many times Osborne did that? Zero.

To me, this speaks volumes to the quality of our wins vs. the quality (lack thereof) of our losses. Unlike Bama, Boise and Oregon, we haven't shown much at all in the arena of winning big games, and that is what hurts the 9-win argument the most.

An in addition to that, 9 wins used to earn the Huskers a top 10 ranking every year. 9 wins today barely gets us into the top 25. In fact we'll likely fall out with 10 wins after the bowl games.

The one thing that Dirk did not bring up, though was that with Boise St Petersen took over a strong program in a weak conference that Dan Hawking built. With Oregon, Kelly took over a program on the rise when Belotti retired. With Alabama, Saban took over for a program that was stagnant but not necessarily as bad as what the Huskers were when Pelini came in. So the point I am trying to make is that Kelly and Petersen have maintained and excelled since taking over. Saban dominated after his first year (6-6). Pelini has done a pretty good job all things considered.

Dan Hawkins did not build the Boise State program. It was Koetter who built Boise State. He was hired away by Arizona State, and was then fired by Arizona State. This is why I'd be very scared of hiring Petersen considering how the two coaches before him performed once they left the safe haven of Boise, ID. Saben took over a Bama program riddled with sanctions. Bama was not very good, and Franchione bolted when the program got hit with even more sanctions.

If you want to compare us and our situation to another team, you should look no further than Florida. Zook was a pretty good recruiter, but he was a horrible coach. Meyer walked in and immediately turned things around. Clownahan was a pretty good recruiter, but he was a horrible coach. Bo hasn't quite got us around the corner yet. The biggest difference between Bo and Meyer is the fact that Bo hasn't recruited nearly as well.

I forgot about Koetter but I think my point was that it was built before Petersen and he has maintained a good level of wins. Meyer did turn things around at Florida but he also had 3 out of 6 seasons where he had 3+ losses. Granted, 2 of the other 3 were NC winners. Saban came in after Shula. He did not do a bad job all things considered but was stagnant so they got Saban and the rest is history.

As far as what Bo took over, there was a decent amount of attrition that came down on Callahacks recruits and we also lost out on some due to him getting fired (Blaine Gabbert). We could have been further along than where we are. I just don't think Dirk's is showing the whole picture. But we can slice and dice this until we are blue in the face.

In the end, I think winning 9-10 games a year shows consistency to maintain a program to get back to the elite level. It can't last forever and the big score losses need to end. Next year will truly tell us where we stand from an improvement standpoint.

 

[skersfan]

If you truly believe we are getting back to elite status after Saturday, there really is not much to say. I am sorry for you.

 

[StPaulHusker]

If you truly believe we are getting back to elite status after Saturday, there really is not much to say. I am sorry for you.

Did not mention that once.

 

[skersfan]

You stated 9-10 wins consistently gets you on the path to elite status, correct.

We are no where near elite, we may be the first team in a major division to have ten wins and not be ranked in the top 25 after Georgia dismantles us. Our wins are what they are, close games over average to below average Big 10 teams, with a tremendous amount of luck to get them.

We have turnover problems, pentalty problems, players barely knowing where they are to line up, normally not knowing.

Snyder has returned the Cats to elite status, in honesty Bo has taken us farther away from it, a steady decline in ability, is displayed due to his inability to recruit, coach and develop young talent.

Freshmen need to play, they play everywhere else but Nebraska. This mad scientist approach to defense may work at LSU or the NFL but it is not working at Nebraska. Play the game, not think the game. A game of reaction, quickly makes winners. Youth on this team playing this year would have helped a great deal for next year. It is never going to be perfect. Use the best you have and adapt your coaching skills to your talent level, remember BC and the square peg. WE have the exact same thing going on now.

 

[junior4949]

Part of it is the luck of the draw. When we were in the Big 12, we were obviously in the weakest division considering a north team hadn't won the Big 12 since 2003. Thus, we got to play some of the weakest teams in the Big 12 year in and year out. Then, we join the B1G. The B1G for the most part is a joke this year. The representative we're sending to the Rose Bowl isn't ranked and is a five loss team. How many other automatic qualifying conferences can match this? The B1G resembles the Big East this year. Last year in the B1G, we pretty much got demolished by any team with a pulse in the B1G with the exception of Michigan State.

As much as people like to look back at the 09' season and say what if, people should also be doing that with this season. We caught almost every break possible in some of those games. It's not difficult to look back and say our record could look considerably worse than it is. I still believe we've regressed with 09' being Bo's best year here. Most fans can accept losses. What most fans can't stomach is how our defense is breaking the kind of records that a Cosgrove defense couldn't even break. If we're only concerned about winning 9 or 10 games a season, then we should go independant and schedule accordingly.

 

[NUinID]

Which team looks like they are truly headed in the right direction. K State or Nebraska?

Good coaching brings quality play or at least an avenue to get there.

I would wait and see on K State being the next great thing. Without Klien they are probably no better than 8-4 next year.

 

[junior4949]

KState's backup played quite a bit this year. I was rather impressed by their backup. He's faster than Klein. The team or QB rather that I'm most interested in seeing what they do is Bell at OU. All they've ever done with him is play him in the redzone where he pretty much just runs the ball. There's got to be more to him than just this or OU's going to have a long season.

 

[skersfan]

But the 8-4 most likely will be better played games than our joke of a 10 win season.

That team will develop and continue to develop, ours regresses every year.

It is not about wins and losses for me. I could care less if we went 6-6 as long as we were respectable in every game. It would suck to lose, but being able to play the game with the elite of the conference is required, not sought after. Playing on the National level is still so far away it is a dream.

If we get curb stomped by Georgia, the Nebraska run is over I am afraid. Meyer and Hoke are already killing us in recruiting, what young kid would want to come to a program where the head coach is not capable of stopping 60-70 point beat downs, by less than the best.

 

[NUinID]

But the 8-4 most likely will be better played games than our joke of a 10 win season.

That team will develop and continue to develop, ours regresses every year.

It is not about wins and losses for me. I could care less if we went 6-6 as long as we were respectable in every game. It would suck to lose, but being able to play the game with the elite of the conference is required, not sought after. Playing on the National level is still so far away it is a dream.

If we get curb stomped by Georgia, the Nebraska run is over I am afraid. Meyer and Hoke are already killing us in recruiting, what young kid would want to come to a program where the head coach is not capable of stopping 60-70 point beat downs, by less than the best.

That is complete BS if Nebraska goes 6-6 next year you will be calling for Pelini's head just like 95% of everyone else.

 

[kchusker_chris]

posted this in another thread (in regards to firing Coz), it belongs here though. don't forget we had a 9 win season in 2006 - and it looks much better than our 10 wins look this season.

It's also why I'm kind of alarmed about where this will go if no staff changes are made this year. If you look at the 2006 season and our losses, we gave up 28 to USC on the road - a #4 ranked team. Not exactly a terrible showing. We lose by 2 to Texas, a #5 team and only gave up 22. Our major defensive breakdown in 2006 was our loss to Oklahoma state, giving up 41. Compared to the current program - that's not too bad. Then we gave up 21 to Oklahoma in the Championship game, but that was a #8 ranked team. And 17 to Auburn, a #10 ranked team. How do you fire your DC when 4 of their 5 losses were to top 10 programs, and he never gave up more than 28 in those contests? On a team that focuses on offense? On average they gave up 18 points a game that year, and made it to the championship game. (and were competitive) 18 points would be a top 15 scoring defense this year. How can you fire a guy like that?

USC ended up 11-2 beating Michigan in the Rose Bowl w/ a #4 ranking

Oklahoma lost to Boise in the Fiesta ending up 11-3 and #11

Texas was coming of a MNC and ended up 10-3 ranked #13

Aurburn finished 11-2 #9

(those are some solid teams - and one hell of a tough schedule)

In comparison...(you'll pull out your apples and oranges again I'm sure)...in 2012 we didn't play a single top 10 team (save maybe OSU depending on where you look) - and we are giving up 26 points a game with a 63 and a 70 in there. If you advocate for the firing of Cosgrove (which I'd say every single person in here does) then how can you not advocate for the firing of JP, or at least some sort of staff change? The state of this program currently - is much worse IMO than the state of the program after the 2006 season. And look where that got us. No one saw that one coming...most of all Bill or Cosgrove.

 

[skersfan]

I am sure you know how I think, quite obvious.

We have a terrible coach, that really has no business on the field as a head coach. I have stated many times I do not like the fact that he is here, but that we can not fire him. Who would take this job, I doubt anyone with half a credential.

What I want to see is improvement, not wins and losses. We will never be winners with what is going on now. Learn his job, do the job and improve. We have steadily declined since the Arizona game a few years back.

If I thought there was a single coach out there with the credentials and ability to do the job here, that would take the job, I would want him gone after this joke of 10 wins. But who would take it. No talent, hard to get it here, blow out records with a genius defensive coach.

We are stuck with this turkey, but we sure can demand he changes what he does. I give him two more years. If not then he needs to go. We could not get much lower by then anyway.

It is about how the game is played, prepared for, committment, attention to detail and how we recruit that matters to me. You take care of those things the quality wins come, but if you have a quality loss along the way so be it. We do not have quality losses, we have embarassing lower division high school blow outs.

If you think in your wildest dreams we are on the level with Michigan or Ohio State, watch the next two years. They are going to pull so far ahead so quickly it will numbing. This great 10 win season has given them more ammunition to sell their programs over our.

Bury your head in the sand and think this program is elite or even headed to more than average. I am not doing it any longer.

 

[NUinID]

I am sure you know how I think, quite obvious.

We have a terrible coach, that really has no business on the field as a head coach. I have stated many times I do not like the fact that he is here, but that we can not fire him. Who would take this job, I doubt anyone with half a credential.

What I want to see is improvement, not wins and losses. We will never be winners with what is going on now. Learn his job, do the job and improve. We have steadily declined since the Arizona game a few years back.

If I thought there was a single coach out there with the credentials and ability to do the job here, that would take the job, I would want him gone after this joke of 10 wins. But who would take it. No talent, hard to get it here, blow out records with a genius defensive coach.

We are stuck with this turkey, but we sure can demand he changes what he does. I give him two more years. If not then he needs to go. We could not get much lower by then anyway.

It is about how the game is played, prepared for, committment, attention to detail and how we recruit that matters to me. You take care of those things the quality wins come, but if you have a quality loss along the way so be it. We do not have quality losses, we have embarassing lower division high school blow outs.

If you think in your wildest dreams we are on the level with Michigan or Ohio State, watch the next two years. They are going to pull so far ahead so quickly it will numbing. This great 10 win season has given them more ammunition to sell their programs over our.

Bury your head in the sand and think this program is elite or even headed to more than average. I am not doing it any longer.

I never said that Nebraska was elite right now your the only one saying they are not. I said it was BS that you would be satisfied with a 6-6 record if all the loses were close fought games. How is 6 loses going to make you like BP anymore than you do now.