All things Poland

Excel

Excel

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So we had a lively but civil discussion in a status update about this article  but it's probably more appropriate for this forum. I don't like to talk politics but I did enjoy the discussion and the topic is worth exploring if anyone cared to continue on it.

Potential areas of discussion:

- Far-right politics in Europe, especially Eastern Europe

- Polish History

- The state of Polish politics today

- Polish-American/EU/Russian relations

- Nazis and Fascists, specifically in Poland or more broadly the region and Europe

- Whether or not this was a fascist parade or to what extent it was a fascist parade

- What, if anything, we should do about all of it


 
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Haven’t you heard? It’s White supremacy to love your country and be proud of your culture. It’s also a sign of patriarchal oppression.

 
Uh, do you follow Jack Posobiec? 

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I think the concern, as it were, is who organized this and what they billed themselves as. And the worry that those who aren't themselves fascists don't mind them, and are happy to find common cause with them...and why.

The far-right in Europe isn't a phenomenon that seems dismissable at this point. Of course, perhaps one might argue that they've got the right idea. I emphatically reject the idea that they aren't in power yet, and therefore shrug. We often think of things as cartoonishly unrealistic. Reality is sobering, and it's important to recognize that. You might say the craziest of the crazies in the US are extremely rare and fringe, also. But it is always worth reaffirming a condemnation of what they stand for.

GBR0988 said:
Haven’t you heard? It’s White supremacy to love your country and be proud of your culture. It’s also a sign of patriarchal oppression.
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I wouldn't call it 'white supremacy' per se, but there's probably some kind of term for wanting to rid your country of Jews and I don't think "love of country and culture" is it.

 
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zoogs said:
Do you follow Jack Posobiec? 

--

I think the concern, as it were, is who organized this and what they billed themselves as. And the worry that those who aren't themselves fascists don't mind them, and are happy to find common cause with them...and why.

The far-right in Europe isn't a phenomenon that seems dismissable at this point. Of course, perhaps one might argue that they've got the right idea. I emphatically reject the idea that they aren't in power yet, and therefore shrug. We often think of things as cartoonishly unrealistic. Reality is sobering, and it's important to recognize that. You might say the craziest of the crazies in the US are extremely rare and fringe, also. But it is always worth reaffirming a condemnation of what they stand for.
Click to expand...


Never heard of him. My understanding is, it has more to do with keeping radicals out of their country and putting the safety of their citizens and ideals first. Granted, I know very little about this.

 
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keeping radicals out of their country and putting the safety of their citizens and ideals
Click to expand...



That's a hell of a euphemism for:

- '...organized by a nationalist youth movement that seeks an ethnically pure Poland with fewer Jews or Muslims.'

- 'carrying banners that read “White Europe,” “Europe Will Be White” and “Clean Blood.'

- '“There are of course nationalists and fascists at this march ...I’m fine with it."'

- 'The Radical Camp presents itself as the heir to a 1930s fascist movement of the same name, which fought to rid Poland of Jews in the years just before the Holocaust. A second group, All Polish Youth, also named after an anti-Jewish interwar movement, co-organized it.'

- 'The group has regularly held events to mark a 1936 pogrom against Jews. Its symbols were displayed on a banner that appeared over a Warsaw bridge, reading: “Pray for Islamic Holocaust.”

As for the recent significance, I think this aspect made me think it was newsworthy:

- "The Radical Camp has been holding independence-day marches since 2009. Until several years ago, it struggled to attract more than a few hundred people"

 
zoogs said:
Uh, do you follow Jack Posobiec? 

--

I think the concern, as it were, is who organized this and what they billed themselves as. And the worry that those who aren't themselves fascists don't mind them, and are happy to find common cause with them...and why.

The far-right in Europe isn't a phenomenon that seems dismissable at this point. Of course, perhaps one might argue that they've got the right idea. I emphatically reject the idea that they aren't in power yet, and therefore shrug. We often think of things as cartoonishly unrealistic. Reality is sobering, and it's important to recognize that. You might say the craziest of the crazies in the US are extremely rare and fringe, also. But it is always worth reaffirming a condemnation of what they stand for.

I wouldn't call it 'white supremacy' per se, but there's probably some kind of term for wanting to rid your country of Jews and I don't think "love of country and culture" is it.
Click to expand...


To be honest with you, I’m not seeing too much about wanting to rid the country of Jews....I’m seeing more of this kind of stuff.

8F55A84C-E867-41C8-A5CF-AFE14ADDC1DE.jpeg

 
That image is from 2016. This is 2017.

So, I'm curious. Where are you doing your reading? I'm also reading about the event itself. My quotes were from the WSJ article posted above. Of course, it should be noted that there isn't a hint of criticism about Polish Independence there. The chief and only concern expressed therein is the nature of the recent draw.

 
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That picture isn't in this tweet, or in the article the tweet links to. Where, again? ...

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I'm also trying to find out about the source of that article in this tweet, VoiceOfEurope.com. There's virtually nothing on it; a Google search yielded their own pages, plus a Gateway Pundit (notorious garbage site) post protesting the fact that Twitter shut down this outlet's account at one point, and this Quora page: https://www.quora.com/Is-Voice-of-Europe-a-fake-news-site-run-by-Russian-trolls-based-in-pro-Russia-countries

The answer on Quora (that it's a disinformation site) seems to be fair, for what it's worth. 

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I don't think it's clear from the WSJ article which side was "more" prevalent. I don't think that's the top issue at stake.

 
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