Armstrong at QB

[The Dude]

I think some of the people hung up on completion percentage are kind of missing the point of a vertical passing attack.

The Coryell offense attacked vertically through seams, while the West Coast offense moved laterally as much as vertically through angles on curl and slant routes.[24] The Coryell offense had lower completion percentages than the West Coast offense, but the returns were greater on a successful play.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Coryell

Now, I don't think Beck runs a full-blown Air Coryell offense, but the influence is undeniable. It's reasonable to expect around a 60% completion percentage, but it's not the end of the world if we don't quite hit that mark. As long as we hit on a relatively high number of big plays vertically, and the yards per pass average remains relatively high, the offense is working how it's designed to. One thing our offense needs to be highly successful is a deep receiving corps, and I don't think we've had that this year. Getting Burtch and (hopefully) Reilly back should help. All things considered, I think Armstrong has done a decent job so far this year, but definitely has some room to grow. It's reasonable to expect he will.

 

[3rd and long]

TMart got ripped to shreds, and his numbers were a lot better. AA got criticized for his fumbling problem, and no one batted an eye. TA has some problems in the passing game, but he makes a few big plays and all of a sudden any criticism is taboo on this board.

If I were a betting man, I'd place a lot of money that Armstrong and/or Abduallah would be getting quite a bit of criticism if they were fumbling. So far, they are not. Thus, no criticism.

Did you even bother to actually read what I wrote? AA has had a career filled with fumbles, and we rightfully pointed out he needed to work on it (which it seems he did). No one had a problem.

But point out TA's accuracy problem and people start grabbing pitchforks.

I haven't seen anyone at all who says his accuracy couldn't be better. He has missed open receivers,an he has locked onto recievers. He has plenty of room to improve. I don't think anyone disputes that.

But what about the tough throws that he has put right on the money, the reads he has made correctly.

I see a very young QB who is 10 games into his career. A young QB who (to me anyway) has played very well overall, and who has a huge upside and willingness to learn.

I think the biggest thing he could do to help himself right now is to really utilize the backs. But he's obviously a QB whose tendacies are downfield. If we want him to dump off more often, the coachs have to make that a priority for him. TM didn't start using his backs until very late in his career.

I'm just shocked that someone continually brings up last years MSU game and lays the blame at his feet. How many freshman QB's would have gone into that situation and not made mistakes.

 

[BigRedBuster]

I think some of the people hung up on completion percentage are kind of missing the point of a vertical passing attack.

The Coryell offense attacked vertically through seams, while the West Coast offense moved laterally as much as vertically through angles on curl and slant routes.[24] The Coryell offense had lower completion percentages than the West Coast offense, but the returns were greater on a successful play.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Coryell

Now, I don't think Beck runs a full-blown Air Coryell offense, but the influence is undeniable. It's reasonable to expect around a 60% completion percentage, but it's not the end of the world if we don't quite hit that mark. As long as we hit on a relatively high number of big plays vertically, and the yards per pass average remains relatively high, the offense is working how it's designed to. One thing our offense needs to be highly successful is a deep receiving corps, and I don't think we've had that this year. Getting Burtch and (hopefully) Reilly back should help. All things considered, I think Armstrong has done a decent job so far this year, but definitely has some room to grow. It's reasonable to expect he will.

Good post.

 

[sd'sker]

do not know if this has been posted, but tommy armstrong is ranked 29 in passer efficiency. ahead of winston, golson, and hundley.

 

[74Hunter]

If we want to complain about 50% completion percentages, let's start with Tommie Frazier's career sub-.500 completion percentage, and ask ourselves why we were able to win so many games with that kind of quarterback.

Or Scott Frost's 54% completion percentage.

Or Eric Crouch's career 51% completion percentage.

Again, apples and orangutans. They played in totally different systems and 50% won't cut when the coach wants a 50/50 run/pass ratio.

Frazier and Frost won MNCs. Crouch won the Big 12, the Heisman, and played in a national championship game.

Armstrong lost us the chance to win a weak division with his play against MSU.

Wow.

Where was I wrong?

Beginning, middle and end.

So, nowhere. K, thanks.

 

[74Hunter]

Let's clear up one thing.

Tommy checks down on receivers.

Unless he sees his primary receiver getting separation, which often happens. It's a good thing. It's why he's the primary receiver. Also a sign the pass protection is working.

Sometimes Tommy even looks off a receiver as strategy. He completes those second look passes least as often as he misses a wide-open receiver.

Honestly don't know what games you guys are watching.

The comparison to Frazier, Frost and Crouch's completion percentage is perfectly relevant. We all want that percentage to go up, but to declare it a failure in this particular "system" is ludicrous.

I honestly don't know how from tv shots you can see his head or eyes move through his progressions. Unless you've got a different view than I do, or maybe your tv has better definition than mine, I'm not sure you can make that distinction.

Oh,and if you don't know the differences from the Osbone and Solich offenses and Becks offense in regards to passing, then I highly over estimated your knowledge of football.

 

[74Hunter]

I don't see how people can be upset with the QB play at this point in the season. I'm sure Tommy would be the first person to tell you he'd want a few throws back but he's played really only one bad half so far this year. He's lead the team to a top 11 scoring offense and has the team sitting in the top 5 for yards per play. What more do you really want from him? At this point it seems like the only thing that is going to make some posters happy is a complete turnover in coaching staff and playing nothing but walk-ons for the entire season.

Let's wait and see what happens against a decent defense. As of now, his completion % is horrible, he's missed way too many wide open receivers, he doesn't check down enough, he's had too many potential INTs dropped, and this had led to too many 3 and outs with very little sustained scoring drives.Against decent defenses when his ypc drops back to 3 yards, those INTs aren't dropped, those missed opportunities could be a killer. Also , not being able to sustain drives is going to hurt the defense, especially the DL late in the year when they're beat up.

Edit: he als likely won't have a nice clean pocket like he has had the first 3 games.

His completion percentage isn't even close to "horrible". If we're going to play the "potential INT's" card, then the "dropped by his receivers" card means TA's completion percentage is 60+%. Your first paragraph is all your own opinion - and I disagree.
The rest of your post is rampant speculation. I could just as easily speculate that TA will play better against better defenses; therefore, more sustained drives and stuff.

Your post just seems like you're looking for things to criticize.

In this offense, his completion percentage is horrible. Fact.
If you or anyone else isn't concerned about him putting the ball in defenders hands then I'll just shake my head in disbelief. He won't continue to be as lucky as he has by having them dropped.

And I'll bet you that he doesn't average 10 ypc against MSU.

 

[NUpolo8]

If we want to complain about 50% completion percentages, let's start with Tommie Frazier's career sub-.500 completion percentage, and ask ourselves why we were able to win so many games with that kind of quarterback.

Or Scott Frost's 54% completion percentage.

Or Eric Crouch's career 51% completion percentage.

Again, apples and orangutans. They played in totally different systems and 50% won't cut when the coach wants a 50/50 run/pass ratio.

Frazier and Frost won MNCs. Crouch won the Big 12, the Heisman, and played in a national championship game.

Armstrong lost us the chance to win a weak division with his play against MSU.

Wow.

Where was I wrong?

Beginning, middle and end.

So, nowhere. K, thanks.

#56hoursofsportstalkradioaweekcantbewrong

 

[74Hunter]

So again, Polo, where was I wrong?

 

[NUpolo8]

I don't see how people can be upset with the QB play at this point in the season. I'm sure Tommy would be the first person to tell you he'd want a few throws back but he's played really only one bad half so far this year. He's lead the team to a top 11 scoring offense and has the team sitting in the top 5 for yards per play. What more do you really want from him? At this point it seems like the only thing that is going to make some posters happy is a complete turnover in coaching staff and playing nothing but walk-ons for the entire season.

Let's wait and see what happens against a decent defense. As of now, his completion % is horrible, he's missed way too many wide open receivers, he doesn't check down enough, he's had too many potential INTs dropped, and this had led to too many 3 and outs with very little sustained scoring drives.Against decent defenses when his ypc drops back to 3 yards, those INTs aren't dropped, those missed opportunities could be a killer. Also , not being able to sustain drives is going to hurt the defense, especially the DL late in the year when they're beat up.

Edit: he als likely won't have a nice clean pocket like he has had the first 3 games.

His completion percentage isn't even close to "horrible". If we're going to play the "potential INT's" card, then the "dropped by his receivers" card means TA's completion percentage is 60+%. Your first paragraph is all your own opinion - and I disagree.
The rest of your post is rampant speculation. I could just as easily speculate that TA will play better against better defenses; therefore, more sustained drives and stuff.

Your post just seems like you're looking for things to criticize.

In this offense, his completion percentage is horrible. Fact.If you or anyone else isn't concerned about him putting the ball in defenders hands then I'll just shake my head in disbelief. He won't continue to be as lucky as he has by having them dropped.

And I'll bet you that he doesn't average 10 ypc against MSU.

The leash you apparently have given Tommy Armstrong as opposed to other persons affiliated with the University of Nebraska to "get it" is absolutely, hysterically hypocritical.

 

[Lonestar_Husker]

Well... My only issue is with those stating he "consistently" does blah blah blah. If he consistently missed short passes or whatever the criticism is, he wouldn't even be at 50%. I've seen him hit at least as many as he's missed, so I wouldn't call that consistent. It takes two to tango and even more to complete passes. There have been missed receivers, along with some drops and the occasional throw away. "That's the way football go"- Ron Washington(former Texas Rangers manager) if he coached football. I've seen Eli Manning miss several receivers, too. He has 2 Super Bowl wins. Tommy's record as a starter is pretty good.

The "would be interceptions against X team" is pure speculation. That is why the games are played.... on the field, not in one's imagination.

One can criticize whatever one wants to, just don't expect to keep any credibility when the criticism doesn't match with what is actually happening. 7 to 1 TD to INT is pretty good. How many fumbles has he had this year? I'm not sure, but it doesn't seem excessive. I would think not turning the ball over is a good thing, unless wishing for losses to justify desired changes. I feel the expectation level being placed on a sophomore is unreasonable. It seems we have several weapons and I feel he is doing a good job at distributing the ball. I didn't say great job, there is room for improvement, and I think it will come.

I think our biggest issue is O-Line and LB right now.

I'm really looking forward to this weekends game. Several things should become apparent. Personally, it looked like McNeese St. had better players than we thought and we were surprised. There shouldn't be any surprise this weekend.

GO BIG RED!!!!!

 

[RedDenver]

I don't see how people can be upset with the QB play at this point in the season. I'm sure Tommy would be the first person to tell you he'd want a few throws back but he's played really only one bad half so far this year. He's lead the team to a top 11 scoring offense and has the team sitting in the top 5 for yards per play. What more do you really want from him? At this point it seems like the only thing that is going to make some posters happy is a complete turnover in coaching staff and playing nothing but walk-ons for the entire season.

Let's wait and see what happens against a decent defense. As of now, his completion % is horrible, he's missed way too many wide open receivers, he doesn't check down enough, he's had too many potential INTs dropped, and this had led to too many 3 and outs with very little sustained scoring drives.Against decent defenses when his ypc drops back to 3 yards, those INTs aren't dropped, those missed opportunities could be a killer. Also , not being able to sustain drives is going to hurt the defense, especially the DL late in the year when they're beat up.

Edit: he als likely won't have a nice clean pocket like he has had the first 3 games.

His completion percentage isn't even close to "horrible". If we're going to play the "potential INT's" card, then the "dropped by his receivers" card means TA's completion percentage is 60+%. Your first paragraph is all your own opinion - and I disagree.
The rest of your post is rampant speculation. I could just as easily speculate that TA will play better against better defenses; therefore, more sustained drives and stuff.

Your post just seems like you're looking for things to criticize.

In this offense, his completion percentage is horrible. Fact.
If you or anyone else isn't concerned about him putting the ball in defenders hands then I'll just shake my head in disbelief. He won't continue to be as lucky as he has by having them dropped.

And I'll bet you that he doesn't average 10 ypc against MSU.

Umm... you're even wrong on what a fact is. And your opinion does not match descriptions of a vertical passing game: Air Coryell

Or we may in fact believe that the future is not set. Possible TA does not throw into coverage as much is just as likely as that he does and the defense catches more of them. Past amount of lucky does not guarantee future amount of luck.

I think he'll get 10 ypc against MSU - he's currently at 18.0 (773 yards and 43 completions). You might have meant ypa, which I'd agree is unlikely, since he's currently 9.54 ypa (773 on 81 attempts).

 

[74Hunter]

I don't see how people can be upset with the QB play at this point in the season. I'm sure Tommy would be the first person to tell you he'd want a few throws back but he's played really only one bad half so far this year. He's lead the team to a top 11 scoring offense and has the team sitting in the top 5 for yards per play. What more do you really want from him? At this point it seems like the only thing that is going to make some posters happy is a complete turnover in coaching staff and playing nothing but walk-ons for the entire season.

Let's wait and see what happens against a decent defense. As of now, his completion % is horrible, he's missed way too many wide open receivers, he doesn't check down enough, he's had too many potential INTs dropped, and this had led to too many 3 and outs with very little sustained scoring drives.Against decent defenses when his ypc drops back to 3 yards, those INTs aren't dropped, those missed opportunities could be a killer. Also , not being able to sustain drives is going to hurt the defense, especially the DL late in the year when they're beat up.

Edit: he als likely won't have a nice clean pocket like he has had the first 3 games.

His completion percentage isn't even close to "horrible". If we're going to play the "potential INT's" card, then the "dropped by his receivers" card means TA's completion percentage is 60+%. Your first paragraph is all your own opinion - and I disagree.
The rest of your post is rampant speculation. I could just as easily speculate that TA will play better against better defenses; therefore, more sustained drives and stuff.

Your post just seems like you're looking for things to criticize.

In this offense, his completion percentage is horrible. Fact.If you or anyone else isn't concerned about him putting the ball in defenders hands then I'll just shake my head in disbelief. He won't continue to be as lucky as he has by having them dropped.

And I'll bet you that he doesn't average 10 ypc against MSU.

The leash you apparently have given Tommy Armstrong as opposed to other persons affiliated with the University of Nebraska to "get it" is absolutely, hysterically hypocritical.

Oh yeah? How so? Where in this thread have it I beat the drum that Tommy should be replaced? I think I've said on numerous occasions that he is probably (sadly) the best we have so we're kind of stuck with him right now.

 

[NUpolo8]

Oh yeah? How so? Where in this thread have it I beat the drum that Tommy should be replaced? I think I've said on numerous occasions that he is probably (sadly) the best we have so we're kind of stuck with him right now.

I think if you apply yourself to how you're wrong here, you'll get the answer you're demanding as to why you're wrong about the MSU game last year.

 

[RedRedJarvisRedwine]

first, no one is stopping anyone from criticizing tommy. people are just disagreeing with those criticisms and assessments.

second, here is my point by point rebuttal to the criticisms of tommy:

1. he needs to improve; he has improved 9:8 to 7:1. to say, "he was bad last year, just wait until we play good teams" is to ignore his ability to improve and his improvements thus far. he has been better against similar teams and no reason he does not continue to improve until we play the better teams on our schedule. (all two of them)

2. he throws near picks; so? until they are picks, i am not too concerned. no reason he will not continue to learn how to make reads.

3. when we play better competition, his arm will be a liability; we have already seen him improve from last year. no reason to believe he will not continue to improve. not to mention, we do not play many quality defenses.

4. he threw a lot of picks against mich. st. and had a bad game; a lot of qb's did. they had a salty defense. no one should be surprised a freshman backup qb struggled against them. they were also a one loss team that won the B1G and rose bowl. he has time to grow before we face them again.

5. he threw a pick six against msu and we did not recover until the last :20; he found AA in the flat in that game. but that pick six was a mis-communication. if westerkamp takes the inside route, it is a td for the good guys. westerkamp adjusted and tommy did not. again, a mistake that can be improved upon. furthermore, that was a letdown by the entire team. if the o-line could get a push, he would not have had to pass a single time. it was just an ugly game for all involved.

6. he left points on the field at fsu; we got 55, when people complain about missing check downs and completion percentages after a game like that, it seems nit picky.

7. his passing completion is not good enough; he is leading an extremely proficient offense. and he is putting up great numbers.

again, i hope he will improve. obviously he has room to improve. but he also has improved and has performed extremely well. i will just appreciate the ways he has improved rather than obsess over check downs, completion percentages, and should have been or maybe will be interceptions.

Well this little Sdsker rant seems too logical to be realistic.

Everyone commence the rational tearing down of our still green QB while hes winning. Cause when he loses you people can all say I told ya so and I don't have to read paragraph after paragraph of what coulda shoulda woulda but didn't happen. Shouldve been intercepted is as asinine an argument as dropped balls. THEY WERENT CAUGHT! I don't see our wrs taking the heat for Tommie not being 60% or higher if these guys catch everything. So Tommies protection automatically is gonna be worse against tougher protection? Well I guess our Oline wont be doing any improving so I can stop worrying about them the rest of the year. Tommies runs will return to 3 yards a carry against better competition. Phew, I was worried why we have looked pretty vanilla in our run game play calling the first few games. Thankfully I now know weve maxed out on creativity in that play calling area. Now that 74hunter has laid it all out for me for the rest of the year, I may as well go on vacation. Nothing left to see here.