Bowe Bergdahl- POW or Deserter?

[BigRedBuster]

JJ...

I can live with that way of looking at it.

One thing that crosses my mind is that if he literally just dropped his weapons and walked away from his post into enemy hands, there has to be some type of mental issues. Those mental issues probably were brought on by being in combat and in those situations. After all, we know that many soldiers coming back have PTSD and other issues they have to work out with help. Most of those issues don't get recognized till that person tries to assimilate themselves back into every day life. Sometimes it happens on the battle field.

So...if he was sent into battle and that caused mental issues bad enough that he did what he did.....who sent him into battle in the first place? The US government and you and me as citizens of this country. If we hadn't sent him over there, he wouldn't have had the mental problems and he wouldn't have left his post to walk right into enemy hands.

We owe it to him to bring him home, evaluate what happened and let the cards fall where they may.

 

[darkhorse85]

JJ...

I can live with that way of looking at it.

One thing that crosses my mind is that if he literally just dropped his weapons and walked away from his post into enemy hands, there has to be some type of mental issues. Those mental issues probably were brought on by being in combat and in those situations. After all, we know that many soldiers coming back have PTSD and other issues they have to work out with help. Most of those issues don't get recognized till that person tries to assimilate themselves back into every day life. Sometimes it happens on the battle field.

So...if he was sent into battle and that caused mental issues bad enough that he did what he did.....who sent him into battle in the first place? The US government and you and me as citizens of this country. If we hadn't sent him over there, he wouldn't have had the mental problems and he wouldn't have left his post to walk right into enemy hands.

We owe it to him to bring him home, evaluate what happened and let the cards fall where they may.

He could have very well had mental problems before even enlisting. Fraudulent enlistements happen all the time. Also, he wasn't a conscript. No one held a gun to his head and made him join the Army.

 

[MidnightRider]

A classified document exists detailing an investigation into this that was conducted immediately upon his disappearance. That investigation found, without a doubt, that he deserted. All the talk of him being a POW is bs. He is a deserter. He left his brothers to join the enemy. He was supposed to be manning a guard post but instead, dumped all of his sensitive items, grabbed a compass, a diary, a knife and some water and proceeded to walk away. These are facts. I know dudes that had boots on the ground the next day whom were intimately involved with both the investigation as well as the recovery efforts. Another fact; men died, unnecessarily, looking for this POS. He neither deserves, nor will he get any sympathy from me. He is an enemy sympatyhizer, plain and simple. He deserves to be tried and punished and, now that all this feel good bs has blown up in the admins collective face, he will be. They will have no choice. Since we are not technically at "war," he won't be eligible for the firing squad. Too bad, really...

 

[carlfense]

My outrage has subsided a bit after reading and thinking more on this. There is little question that his fellow soldiers and commanders knew he was a deserter virtually immediately. So that leaves us with the question of whether or not a deserter is worthy of rescue efforts that endanger other soldiers and/or trading prisoners to get him back.

My initial, kneejerk, reaction to this question was; Hell no, we don't waste 10 seconds on this guy, he made his bed- let him sleep in it. But then I reimagined the question if this deserter was my son. What I came up with was yes, any American soldier, deserter or not, is worth retrieving from a Taliban prison. I would like to think that the Commander in Chief has to consider these issues as if those soldiers are his sons or daughters and, when you look at it that way, as distasteful as releasing these 5 high ranking Taliban prisoners is, I believe the right decision was made. Now it is time to prosecute Bergdahl for his deserting and, if it is found to be true that other troops died trying to rescue him, then he should receive the stiffest sentence possible, including death.

+1 I agree with all of that and I'd add that it's completely fair if the GOP wants to repeatedly attack Obama for not giving them 30 days advance notice. Not so OK: accusing the POTUS of aiding and abetting the enemy or deliberately weakening the US.

Whatever. I hope that we can get back to talking about the VA soon . . . but that's probably not too likely given short attention spans and the bipartisan ownership of that clusterf*ck.

 

[darkhorse85]

A classified document exists detailing an investigation into this that was conducted immediately upon his disappearance. That investigation found, without a doubt, that he deserted. All the talk of him being a POW is bs. He is a deserter. He left his brothers to join the enemy. He was supposed to be manning a guard post but instead, dumped all of his sensitive items, grabbed a compass, a diary, a knife and some water and proceeded to walk away. These are facts. I know dudes that had boots on the ground the next day whom were intimately involved with both the investigation as well as the recovery efforts. Another fact; men died, unnecessarily, looking for this POS. He neither deserves, nor will he get any sympathy from me. He is an enemy sympatyhizer, plain and simple. He deserves to be tried and punished and, now that all this feel good bs has blown up in the admins collective face, he will be. They will have no choice. Since we are not technically at "war," he won't be eligible for the firing squad. Too bad, really...

I wouldn't count on that. If he gets court martialed I'm almost positive there will be some way he's found unfit. That's if it even gets to a court martial. Chances are slim, I'd say.

 

[carlfense]

A classified document exists detailing an investigation into this that was conducted immediately upon his disappearance. That investigation found, without a doubt, that he deserted. All the talk of him being a POW is bs. He is a deserter. He left his brothers to join the enemy. He was supposed to be manning a guard post but instead, dumped all of his sensitive items, grabbed a compass, a diary, a knife and some water and proceeded to walk away. These are facts. I know dudes that had boots on the ground the next day whom were intimately involved with both the investigation as well as the recovery efforts. Another fact; men died, unnecessarily, looking for this POS. He neither deserves, nor will he get any sympathy from me. He is an enemy sympatyhizer, plain and simple. He deserves to be tried and punished and, now that all this feel good bs has blown up in the admins collective face, he will be. They will have no choice. Since we are not technically at "war," he won't be eligible for the firing squad. Too bad, really...

I wouldn't count on that. If he gets court martialed I'm almost positive there will be some way he's found unfit. That's if it even gets to a court martial. Chances are slim, I'd say.

I'd be surprised if he wasn't court-martialed but he won't be put to death . . .

 

[MidnightRider]

A classified document exists detailing an investigation into this that was conducted immediately upon his disappearance. That investigation found, without a doubt, that he deserted. All the talk of him being a POW is bs. He is a deserter. He left his brothers to join the enemy. He was supposed to be manning a guard post but instead, dumped all of his sensitive items, grabbed a compass, a diary, a knife and some water and proceeded to walk away. These are facts. I know dudes that had boots on the ground the next day whom were intimately involved with both the investigation as well as the recovery efforts. Another fact; men died, unnecessarily, looking for this POS. He neither deserves, nor will he get any sympathy from me. He is an enemy sympatyhizer, plain and simple. He deserves to be tried and punished and, now that all this feel good bs has blown up in the admins collective face, he will be. They will have no choice. Since we are not technically at "war," he won't be eligible for the firing squad. Too bad, really...

I wouldn't count on that. If he gets court martialed I'm almost positive there will be some way he's found unfit. That's if it even gets to a court martial. Chances are slim, I'd say.

Sadly, I can't argue with this possibility. I do know that there are senior Army officers furious about this and won't go away quietly so, hopefully, justice is served.

 

[darkhorse85]

A classified document exists detailing an investigation into this that was conducted immediately upon his disappearance. That investigation found, without a doubt, that he deserted. All the talk of him being a POW is bs. He is a deserter. He left his brothers to join the enemy. He was supposed to be manning a guard post but instead, dumped all of his sensitive items, grabbed a compass, a diary, a knife and some water and proceeded to walk away. These are facts. I know dudes that had boots on the ground the next day whom were intimately involved with both the investigation as well as the recovery efforts. Another fact; men died, unnecessarily, looking for this POS. He neither deserves, nor will he get any sympathy from me. He is an enemy sympatyhizer, plain and simple. He deserves to be tried and punished and, now that all this feel good bs has blown up in the admins collective face, he will be. They will have no choice. Since we are not technically at "war," he won't be eligible for the firing squad. Too bad, really...

I wouldn't count on that. If he gets court martialed I'm almost positive there will be some way he's found unfit. That's if it even gets to a court martial. Chances are slim, I'd say.

I'd be surprised if he wasn't court-martialed but he won't be put to death . . .

I was trying to find other cases of desertion linked to mental illness to see if there were any type of precedent and this popped up right away. It makes some fair points but I suppose it's a crap shoot right now. We'll have to wait and see I suppose.

 

[MidnightRider]

A classified document exists detailing an investigation into this that was conducted immediately upon his disappearance. That investigation found, without a doubt, that he deserted. All the talk of him being a POW is bs. He is a deserter. He left his brothers to join the enemy. He was supposed to be manning a guard post but instead, dumped all of his sensitive items, grabbed a compass, a diary, a knife and some water and proceeded to walk away. These are facts. I know dudes that had boots on the ground the next day whom were intimately involved with both the investigation as well as the recovery efforts. Another fact; men died, unnecessarily, looking for this POS. He neither deserves, nor will he get any sympathy from me. He is an enemy sympatyhizer, plain and simple. He deserves to be tried and punished and, now that all this feel good bs has blown up in the admins collective face, he will be. They will have no choice. Since we are not technically at "war," he won't be eligible for the firing squad. Too bad, really...

I wouldn't count on that. If he gets court martialed I'm almost positive there will be some way he's found unfit. That's if it even gets to a court martial. Chances are slim, I'd say.

I'd be surprised if he wasn't court-martialed but he won't be put to death . . .

Correct. Since we have not officialy declared war, firing squad is off the table as I understand the requlation. Here's an excerpt of the UCMJ:

Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ)

ART. 85. DESERTION

(a) Any member of the armed forces who--

(1) without authority goes or remains absent from his unit, organization, or place of duty with intent to remain away therefrom permanently;

(2) quits his unit, organization, or place of duty with intent to avoid hazardous duty or to shirk important service; or

(3) without being regularly separated from one of the armed forces enlists or accepts an appointment in the same or another on of the armed forces without fully disclosing the fact that he has not been regularly separated, or enters any foreign armed service except when authorized by the United States;

is guilty of desertion.

(b) Any commissioned officer of the armed forces who, after tender of his resignation and before notice of its acceptance, quits his post or proper duties without leave and with intent to remain away therefrom permanently is guilty of desertion.

© Any person found guilty of desertion or attempt to desert shall be punished, if the offense is committed in time of war, by death or such other punishment as a court-martial may direct, but if the desertion or attempt to desert occurs at any other time, by such punishment, other than death, as a court-martial may direct.

Note: For specific details concerning this offense, including elements of proof, maximum punishments, and detailed explanation, see Punitive Articles of the UCMJ.

Oh, and the Talis that we released? Baddest of the bad. No question. I suppose I should be stunned that these guys ever saw the light of day again but I'm not. That's disappointing unto itself and speaks volumes to the state of this country today.

 

[TGHusker]

My outrage has subsided a bit after reading and thinking more on this. There is little question that his fellow soldiers and commanders knew he was a deserter virtually immediately. So that leaves us with the question of whether or not a deserter is worthy of rescue efforts that endanger other soldiers and/or trading prisoners to get him back.

My initial, kneejerk, reaction to this question was; Hell no, we don't waste 10 seconds on this guy, he made his bed- let him sleep in it. But then I reimagined the question if this deserter was my son. What I came up with was yes, any American soldier, deserter or not, is worth retrieving from a Taliban prison. I would like to think that the Commander in Chief has to consider these issues as if those soldiers are his sons or daughters and, when you look at it that way, as distasteful as releasing these 5 high ranking Taliban prisoners is, I believe the right decision was made. Now it is time to prosecute Bergdahl for his deserting and, if it is found to be true that other troops died trying to rescue him, then he should receive the stiffest sentence possible, including death.

+1 I agree with all of that and I'd add that it's completely fair if the GOP wants to repeatedly attack Obama for not giving them 30 days advance notice. Not so OK: accusing the POTUS of aiding and abetting the enemy or deliberately weakening the US.

Whatever. I hope that we can get back to talking about the VA soon . . . but that's probably not too likely given short attention spans and the bipartisan ownership of that clusterf*ck.

Carl and JJ (and others) - do you think the exchange price was too high? I'm fine with a prisoner exchange and that we got the guy back as I note in my earlier post. I wonder if there was other 'bait' that could have been used besides the 5 big name thugs. Of course this is somewhat of a unfair question since none of us were privy to the discussions (maybe the admin should be consulting wt the Husker Board forum instead of congress) . Perhaps the Taliban said these 5 guys or no deal. If so, does that say we are weak or does it say we value life (of one man - guilty or not of desertion) that much more?

Do we trust Qatar to keep their end of the deal? I think we should have a drone targeted on these guys for a year and then when they move back to Afgan ... neutralize the targets - if (most likely when) they become involved in terrorist activity again.

 

[carlfense]

Oh, and the Talis that we released? Baddest of the bad. No question.

In what way?

 

[TAKODA]

wow! sometimes I am just astonished at what is the new norm!

 

[carlfense]

Carl and JJ (and others) - do you think the exchange price was too high? I'm fine with a prisoner exchange and that we got the guy back as I note in my earlier post. I wonder if there was other 'bait' that could have been used besides the 5 big name thugs. Of course this is somewhat of a unfair question since none of us were privy to the discussions (maybe the admin should be consulting wt the Husker Board forum instead of congress) . Perhaps the Taliban said these 5 guys or no deal. If so, does that say we are weak or does it say we value life (of one man - guilty or not of desertion) that much more?


Do we trust Qatar to keep their end of the deal? I think we should have a drone targeted on these guys for a year and then when they move back to Afgan ... neutralize the targets - if (most likely when) they become involved in terrorist activity again.

I don't know. It heavily depends on what the plan was for the 5 prisoners. If they were going to be released eventually anyways the price is virtually zero. If they were going to be released as part of negotiations re: the Afghanistan withdrawal the cost can't really be known.

Either way, indefinite detention with no trial/conviction/POW status/etc. is not OK in my book. So one way or another if it were up to me those guys would be moving from Gitmo. If we have evidence of guilt, try them. If we don't have evidence of guilt how can we detain them?

 

[JJ Husker]

Carl and JJ (and others) - do you think the exchange price was too high? I'm fine with a prisoner exchange and that we got the guy back as I note in my earlier post. I wonder if there was other 'bait' that could have been used besides the 5 big name thugs. Of course this is somewhat of a unfair question since none of us were privy to the discussions (maybe the admin should be consulting wt the Husker Board forum instead of congress) . Perhaps the Taliban said these 5 guys or no deal. If so, does that say we are weak or does it say we value life (of one man - guilty or not of desertion) that much more?

Do we trust Qatar to keep their end of the deal? I think we should have a drone targeted on these guys for a year and then when they move back to Afgan ... neutralize the targets - if (most likely when) they become involved in terrorist activity again.

1 for 1 or 5 for 1, I'm not sure it matters. It's not the exchange ratio that bothers me near as much as the fact that our guy was a deserter. It's a crying shame we had to give up anything for him. The 5 Taliban guys pale in comparison to any troops we may have lost trying to rescue this pos. I think it says, to a large extent, we were weak in this particular bargain and also that we value the life of one of ours more than theirs.

I wouldn't trust Qatar for sh#t. But I also wouldn't wait around to see if we could trust them. Those 5 Taliban would already be dead, missing, and never to be found again if it were up to me. Please, please tell me, between our intelligence community and special ops, that we still have the ability to make people disappear, off the books, when we want to.

 

[TAKODA]

JJ, I am sorry to say that you are speaking to some deaf ears about your feelings here!