Brian Stewart and the Secondary

[Thanks_Tom RR]

The concerning issue is the comments that Stewart said after the USA game. To paraphrase, could've helped him, but didn't want to tip our hand"...... The help was obviously let Davie get beat by Miami for 2 TD's and then pull him. That's not a scheme, that's BS.

Banker talked about his D being "vulnerable" to the deep route, but its one of the hardest passes to make. Wants to make those 50/50 balls. Davie, against USA was thrown on 11. They completed 8....... If I am an OC, I take those odds.

I also think that the DB's need to play MUCH MORE PHYSICAL at the LOS and at the point of the catch. Miami was flat out eating the wood in that game. Man, I wished we hit like that (no, not the 2 ejections), but that head hunting, catch the ball in my house and get lit up intensity. Our guys rarely got a free catch in that game. Miami was on point.

Our DL, while not getting great pressure only increases an already difficult task for a DB on an Island. Bump the receiver at the line, disrupt the route and the timing. Instead of the DB's having to cover for an extra few seconds, give the DL and extra few seconds or steps to get the friggin QB. No way a static guy like Kaaya should have been sacked once...... Oh and get your friggin hands up. If you can't get to the QB at least give him some obstacle. If teams are using quicker routes and shorter drops as some have posted, knock a receiver off the route messes the timing and requires the QB to reset or start progressing though his reads. This means more time to get to him....

Scheme vs talent? I go scheme (and coaching to get them ready). Name some of the greatest DB's to play the game and you'd be hard pressed to find many who made a living on an island.... It takes a special guy. A lot different to know one misstep and your burnt. Like toast.

This is a good answer to the OP's question. This new scheme has our secondary playing off man, quarters coverage. This defense leaves the secondary exposed to either the underneath or deep balls because (1) the WR are not getting jammed at the line to get them off their route or disrupt the timing and (2) the DB get no help over the top. It essentially gives the WR a two-way go, either leveraging inside (for underneath routes) or outside (for vertical passes). We have not been getting beat underneath as much, which is likely because our opponents are opting to throw the deep ball but also the LB have been decent in helping to stop the underneath passing game. The compounding issue is we are getting no pass rush from the DL to get the QB out of his lane. This is allowing for the vertical passing game to develop for our opponents, which is likely another reason they are going to it so much.
The easy solution would be to play more press in this zone coverage and leverage the vertical routes by using the boundaries as another "defender". Still, our DB are being asked to do a lot more than last year, and not all DB are good at press coverage (though Freshman Eric Lee and RS Freshman Trai Mosley looked really good at this in high school).

The DB are being asked to play on islands this year as opposed to Bo's brackets coverage, where each receiver gets double covered (a big reason why we had trouble stopping the run game, but that is a different topic).

 

[Hedley Lamarr]

So thatguy isn't trying to be "that guy"?

 

[gobiggergoredder]

Anyone think that our DBs would be playing better with Warren?

No. They had they exact se issues last year. People thought that because passing yards were so low it because the secondary was so strong. The teams that gashed us usually ran the ball and didn't really need to throw.
It's the same players. Any pass rush, which the team struggled with even with Gregory, would be helpful. The safety help would be nice, but I would rather see the corners tighten up or be a little more aggressive. I like what Gerry is doing in the run game.

Well North Carolina is 12th in the nation in pass defense at the moment. Its early in the season, but it might be fun to compare how warren does against Kaaya when NC plays Miami in November.

If you're going to compare how 3-4 players perform on a different team while not considering the performance of the other 7 on the field there really is no reason to debate.
Stewart has not come in and made these kids slower and less athletic than Warren. The scheme is different and oh yeah...they've played 3 games.

This isn't even an issue if there's any kind of pass rush.

 

[lo country]

I didn't throw you in the crowd. Said there's plenty here in the business.

Sounds to me Stewart was challenging Davie. On a man to man level.

I like it.

This team needs to learn to rise to the occasion and rise up when they meet adversity. This staff must've done their homework on how these guys have not been able to handle adversity so well in the past.

When things go wrong, we need to bounce back. I think that Miami game showed that these kids are learning that lesson a bit. In that heat, and the way the game started, they could've laid down for Miami. They didn't. They almost pulled off a hell of a comeback.

So while Davie wasn't personally able to rise up in that game, I'm hoping his teammates learn the same lesson they are trying to teach him, and maybe Davie gets another shot down the road to be that guy. That'd be neat.

Very true to the bolded. I like it as well. Challenge the kids and let them know the expectations. I know Corey Raymond caught hell after the South Carolina game few years ago for saying the team has to learn to hit back after getting punched in the mouth. I didn't post the whole quote as he gets into the age old "need better athlete argument"......

Raymond went on to compare the mentality of Southern players versus Nebraska’s players. His guys needed to learn how to punch back once they got “hit in the mouth.”

“You can’t live on what other guys have done in the past around here,” Raymond said. “You have to live on yourself…We’re not Prince. We’re not Eric Hagg. We’re not those guys. We have to do much different things. We have to work harder. We’re not the same athletes as those guys.”

I do think the team showed some heart and stuck with it. Two plays away from being 3-0, or multiple quarters of poor play deserving of a 1-2 start.... Depends on how you look at it. Bottom line, NU is mentally fragile IMO and needs some of this tough love (coupled with the schematic changes) to help these guys get "it" and get that killer mentality.

Looking at this issue, it shows me one promising thing with this staff. For the most part, no position is secure. IIRC, after 2 drops did Hovey even see the field again? Looks like some of the staff will sit their guys to get their minds right. I wish that they did this with all of them. i.e. multiple OL penalties, sit, get coached up and your head right and go back in...

 

[thatguy]

We're playing quarters coverage. No help over top. Safties in box. Im not saying our corners are playing great but the system is COMPLETELY different than the no vertical seam, stack defenses we played under Bo. Give them some time to get used to things. Nice all you "forever lurkers" can come out and let everyone know the issues. The big question is, you watch football, but how many on here understand it even close enough to just call for heads after 3, 3 f'ing games!!!!!????? Settle the f#*k down!!

the only one who needs to settle down here is you...no one here is letting "everyone know the issues". i watch football, and the original question was one intended to help understand the coaching and play.

so you calm down. no one is calling for heads in this thread.

Soo..you really are "that guy". By calling a guy "Elmassian" you are basically asking for his head b/c we all know Elmassian should have been fired given his track record over 4 years here. Its been 3 games in a completely different scheme. And also, i dont think all the DBs have played that bad. Kalu, Cockrell, and Davies have had their troubles, but DRex, Rose, and Jones i think have played pretty well. Why come out of lurking now and point to things that maybe arent quite up to snuff yet?

no... and no. the fact that i said "he seems like mike riley's elmassian" doesn't mean i am asking for brian stewart's head. you're really grasping at straws here.

i'm not a lurker. i really don't feel the need to say anything if i have nothing to say.

i really like this staff, especially compared to the last one.

 

[NUinID]

The concerning issue is the comments that Stewart said after the USA game. To paraphrase, could've helped him, but didn't want to tip our hand"...... The help was obviously let Davie get beat by Miami for 2 TD's and then pull him. That's not a scheme, that's BS.

Banker talked about his D being "vulnerable" to the deep route, but its one of the hardest passes to make. Wants to make those 50/50 balls. Davie, against USA was thrown on 11. They completed 8....... If I am an OC, I take those odds.

I also think that the DB's need to play MUCH MORE PHYSICAL at the LOS and at the point of the catch. Miami was flat out eating the wood in that game. Man, I wished we hit like that (no, not the 2 ejections), but that head hunting, catch the ball in my house and get lit up intensity. Our guys rarely got a free catch in that game. Miami was on point.

Our DL, while not getting great pressure only increases an already difficult task for a DB on an Island. Bump the receiver at the line, disrupt the route and the timing. Instead of the DB's having to cover for an extra few seconds, give the DL and extra few seconds or steps to get the friggin QB. No way a static guy like Kaaya should have been sacked once...... Oh and get your friggin hands up. If you can't get to the QB at least give him some obstacle. If teams are using quicker routes and shorter drops as some have posted, knock a receiver off the route messes the timing and requires the QB to reset or start progressing though his reads. This means more time to get to him....

Scheme vs talent? I go scheme (and coaching to get them ready). Name some of the greatest DB's to play the game and you'd be hard pressed to find many who made a living on an island.... It takes a special guy. A lot different to know one misstep and your burnt. Like toast.

This is completely wrong. The definition of a great D-back or corner back to be more specific is that they play on an island and are shut down corners. Dion Sanders, Darryl Green, Lester Hayes, Richard Sherman, Mel Blount, Charles Woodson, Champ Bailey that is what made them special, that is what made them great. Scheme is what you use to cover up a lack of talent at positions.

They can change their scheme to give there DB's more help, but it will impact the run defense.

 

[GBRedneck]

We're playing quarters coverage. No help over top. Safties in box. Im not saying our corners are playing great but the system is COMPLETELY different than the no vertical seam, stack defenses we played under Bo. Give them some time to get used to things. Nice all you "forever lurkers" can come out and let everyone know the issues. The big question is, you watch football, but how many on here understand it even close enough to just call for heads after 3, 3 f'ing games!!!!!????? Settle the f#*k down!!

Did some posts get deleted or something? Who is calling for anyone's head?

 

[True2tRA]

I think some of this "lack of help" for Davie and not moving safeties back into over the top coverage might have to do with training these guys in the defense they're going to be running. Those wins would've been nice, and we almost pulled them off even without the changes. That said, in those losses, those are two of the best QB's we see all year. With this being a new system and many guys still learning, these first three games were the only real chance we've had to see who is capable of what but to also get these DB's used to being on an island. It's how it is going to be don't ya think? I can't see them changing their scheme and committing more defenders to stopping the pass against Our Big Ten opponents aside from Michigan St.

 

[In the Deed the Glory]

just call for heads after 3, 3 f'ing games!!!!!????? Settle the f#*k down!!

Ironic, don't you think, using 7 exclamation points and two profanities in instructing everybody else to remain calm in their posts. I give you four smilies (one is Kenny Bell!) for the smile it gave me.

Keep calm and Chive on!

KCCO brother.

 

[MasterPulverizer]

so this is something that has been on my mind since the first game.

it really seems to me like brian stewart is really struggling as a secondaries coach, and as i've mentioned before, if there is any coach on this staff that i feel will cost us games, its coach stewart. the play is just not good enough, and i don't think you can really explain away the dropoff in coverage between last year's secondary and this year's secondary simply by scheme. even if the scheme is different, there is an attitude, a swagger and a play style that they need to have that is just not there with them this year.

for those in the know, how is the coaching in that area viewed among the coaches and/or players? so far, it seems like he is mike riley's elmassian.

The biggest change in this defense for the worse is for cornerbacks. Everyone else is playing more down hill and being asked to do less thinking. The CB are being asked to do less thinking, but a lot more physically. They are being asked to be true cover corners without much help. Davie has played poorly there is no question about that, but there job description has changed completely and they have played some Pretty good WR and QB's to date.

BYU had very tall good hands decent speed WR and 2 good QB's

S. Alabama had that one good receiver who was a transfer from Alabama and that QB could really throw the deep fade.

Miami Kaaya and his WR are the most talented group they will see this year. Rob Zatechka on his pod cast that said was the most physically talented team he has seen in a long time.

We won't see QB/WR talent like this until the MSU game, and they aren't as talented as Miami.

S. Miss will throw the rock around some also, but I think we will see some better execution.

The secondary will get better with more reps, it will just take some time. I would rather give up 300 yards a game passing than 200 a game rushing.

ok. i'll bookmark this for after the game on saturday. i might just do a play by play breakdown of pass plays during that game.

I can't wait to see this.

 

[lo country]

The concerning issue is the comments that Stewart said after the USA game. To paraphrase, could've helped him, but didn't want to tip our hand"...... The help was obviously let Davie get beat by Miami for 2 TD's and then pull him. That's not a scheme, that's BS.

Banker talked about his D being "vulnerable" to the deep route, but its one of the hardest passes to make. Wants to make those 50/50 balls. Davie, against USA was thrown on 11. They completed 8....... If I am an OC, I take those odds.

I also think that the DB's need to play MUCH MORE PHYSICAL at the LOS and at the point of the catch. Miami was flat out eating the wood in that game. Man, I wished we hit like that (no, not the 2 ejections), but that head hunting, catch the ball in my house and get lit up intensity. Our guys rarely got a free catch in that game. Miami was on point.

Our DL, while not getting great pressure only increases an already difficult task for a DB on an Island. Bump the receiver at the line, disrupt the route and the timing. Instead of the DB's having to cover for an extra few seconds, give the DL and extra few seconds or steps to get the friggin QB. No way a static guy like Kaaya should have been sacked once...... Oh and get your friggin hands up. If you can't get to the QB at least give him some obstacle. If teams are using quicker routes and shorter drops as some have posted, knock a receiver off the route messes the timing and requires the QB to reset or start progressing though his reads. This means more time to get to him....

Scheme vs talent? I go scheme (and coaching to get them ready). Name some of the greatest DB's to play the game and you'd be hard pressed to find many who made a living on an island.... It takes a special guy. A lot different to know one misstep and your burnt. Like toast.

This is completely wrong. The definition of a great D-back or corner back to be more specific is that they play on an island and are shut down corners. Dion Sanders, Darryl Green, Lester Hayes, Richard Sherman, Mel Blount, Charles Woodson, Champ Bailey that is what made them special, that is what made them great. Scheme is what you use to cover up a lack of talent at positions.

They can change their scheme to give there DB's more help, but it will impact the run defense.

You missed my point. The issue is scheme in that we do not have elite caliber CB's who are shut down CB's. They are an extremely rare bred in deed. One would be hard pressed to find that many who are truly able to be "on an island". The scheme we currently use is a cover one with no safety help. This works if you have elite corners. Unfortunately, at this time we do not have elite corners. So if the scheme is correct, then it is a talent issue. If it's a talent issue, then the scheme is wrong for what we currently have. Therefor, in its current manifestation, NU has a scheme issue. We don't yet have elite corners.

Even the guys you named above, and I agree with them, make up a very small amount of those DB's at the next level. If Rose, Kalu or Jones proves to be a shut down this year that would be great. Have the 2 CB's cover their side, a high safety and have the other safety in the box. IIRC, Seattle uses this and is called the high 3.

 

[thatguy]

after watching this game today, to me its clear that its a position coaching issue. i don't necessarily think banker is at fault, although he does have to make some adjustments.

watching the secondary, its not so much that they got beat, but how poor their confidence was on technique was on covering, tackling, and ball skills. you don't just get bad on all those things just like that something is definitely going on with the coaching. maybe the players just aren't buying what coach stewart is selling.

 

[Hujan]

The play of the DB's is obviously concerning. But again, it's been only 3 games. If this is the same conversation we are having after the next 2, I would say we could start questioning the coaches ability.

We are last in pass defense in the country. You think it's too early to have this discussion?

 

[alwayshusking]

My problem is giving inside releases to the WR. I can understand getting beat to the boundary with good execution but the inside routes are too easy.

 

[shyndy]

Maybe the fact we haven't had up the same db coach for 12 months since sanders "left" has everyone messed up