Cam Meredith: does he keep his starting position?

The Dude said:
zoogies said:
The Dude said:
zoogies said:
Cam is a defensive end, guys. Put a mobile QB one-on-one vs a defensive end and they will out-maneuver them almost every time.
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Only if they're slow and take bad angles.

I've seen tons of defensive ends with tremendous closing speed. He isn't one of them.
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Might be a valid argument if we're talking about a LB down the field looking to make an open-field tackle of an oncoming ballcarrier....

...and not a defensive end charging forward towards a backpedaling or stationary quarterback who can sidestep and run.
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Make no mistake, the "argument" is valid.
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It all depends on how shifty the QB is. You see lots of sacks in the NFL because it is a league of mostly pocket passers with limited mobility and the DE's are by and large physical freaks if they're still playing at that level.

But I tend to agree with The Dude. Thinking back to the UCLA game... Ankrah at least got in position to make some tackles behind the LOS. He just whiffed when he got there. Cam doesn't even get close.

 
I just got around to reading this thread. I'd say:

1.) Enhance is good for a solid post pretty much every single time he comments.

2.) Meredith is maybe our fourth best DE. I'd take Martin, Ankrah, or Carter (probably in that order) over him every single time. It's a tough sell to point to schematics when he loses one-on-one battles basically every play. And he's bulkier than he was when he flashed a couple years ago, with zero tangible increase in strength. That trade off doesn't work: extra size, decrease in speed and lateral quickness, zero increase in strength. I don't think the kid is quitting or going through the motions, a la '07 LB's. I just think he's getting bullied all over the field, and we gotta get him out of there. His lack of impact is almost astonishing, if you watch him exclusively.

3.) The DT play is marginal at best. We have got to figure out a way to increase production...really from the whole line, but from the guys in the middle in particular. If that means playing the young kids, changing up what we do strategically, or some combination of both or something I'm not mentioning, I'm not smart enough to pinpoint the answer. But those guys aren't getting penetration, and they certainly aren't clogging up the running lanes or causing chaos for the opposing O-line.

4.) The talk about scheme reminds me of how much Osborne used to throw the football. The good coaches adapt. I think Bo earned his reputation as one of the top-tier defensive minds in college coaching on merit, not through a lottery drawing. What I'd like to see now is some adaptability. If the guys who understand the scheme are inferior athletically to guys who can't grasp the playbook but have the physical tools, can we make the desperately needed adjustments to get the play makers on the field? Seeing Martin out there, Santos, throwing in Zaire and Seisay are positive indicators to me.

5.) On a final note, Ciante Evans is quietly playing some damn good football right now. And SJB really intrigues me. I think he he has the potential to really stand out. We've seen the athleticism (OSU pick last year) and he's actually leveled a few surprisingly hard hits. Nothing against Mitchell, who hasn't been a liability, but SJB strikes me as a guy who could be great if he can put it all together.

 
HuskerfaninOkieland said:
The Dude said:
gratefullred said:
Another thought, what the hell happened to this guy? I remember see a young Cam sub in late '09 screeming off the edge and looking to destroy QB's. Now he gained 30 pounds and cant move. This guy was poorly developed.
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No one was blocking him because Suh was being quadruple-teamed.
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That doesn't explain his lack of speed now. In '09 he was flying to the ball; played with emotion; hit hard; made the tackles. Everything the fans were excited about in a DE, Cam had it. Now Cam barely goes thru the motions, is slow as hell, misses tackles and loses about 5 jocks each game. Something is not right about that guy. He should be the guy bringing the heat, a leader on the field, etc.
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It's called the Cory McKeon effect...

 
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Quite a few of our DE's get caught looking inside and Meredith does not have the wheels to overcome a mistake like that and still be able to chase someone to the corner. That being said, containment is NOT his job. In 2-gap the sun rises and sets with eating blockers and having a uniform push across the line. He does this pretty well. I would love to see him not get beat to the sidelines like everyone else but I would like to see our linebackers doing their jobs too. Full disclosure, last game was definitely an improvement in this regard albeit against Arkansas State.

Unfortunately, Eric Martin is a liability. His aggressive play is great but he runs himself out of the play and only eats a single blocker in doing so. He can get better about not getting too far upfield, etc. but I just don't think he is there right now. This, combined with the DT's not getting much push, leaves a gaping hole for a QB to run through when the coverage is good. Yes, the downside of a 2-gap is that you need a DT that can beat 2 guys consistently and we are lacking that. But "unleashing caveman"(or anybody really) is just not an option without significant scheme revisions.

And that is why Meredith will not lose his job.

 
zeWilbur said:
Quite a few of our DE's get caught looking inside and Meredith does not have the wheels to overcome a mistake like that and still be able to chase someone to the corner. That being said, containment is NOT his job. In 2-gap the sun rises and sets with eating blockers and having a uniform push across the line. He does this pretty well. I would love to see him not get beat to the sidelines like everyone else but I would like to see our linebackers doing their jobs too. Full disclosure, last game was definitely an improvement in this regard albeit against Arkansas State.

Unfortunately, Eric Martin is a liability. His aggressive play is great but he runs himself out of the play and only eats a single blocker in doing so. He can get better about not getting too far upfield, etc. but I just don't think he is there right now. This, combined with the DT's not getting much push, leaves a gaping hole for a QB to run through when the coverage is good. Yes, the downside of a 2-gap is that you need a DT that can beat 2 guys consistently and we are lacking that. But "unleashing caveman"(or anybody really) is just not an option without significant scheme revisions.

And that is why Meredith will not lose his job.
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They're both liabilities, just in different ways.

I'll take the liability that actual makes plays and wreaks havoc in the back field, gets off his blocks and punishes opposing quarterbacks, over the guy who's far too slow and weak to be an effective defensive end in any scheme.

 
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I acknowledge I don't know a lot about defensive schemes - I only have general understanding of the concepts players are supposed to implement on a given play.

But, I think the crux of the issue is we don't consistently make plays with our front four, zeWilbur. We just don't. If we use defensive statistics from 2009 and 2010, we see that we went from giving up 2.9 YPC with Suh, to giving up 3.9 YPC without him, and we returned most of our linebacking corp sans Dillard. 2011 had a 4.0 YPC average too and we had one of the best linebackers in Nebraska history.

So, although Meredith may "eat blockers" and provide a "uniform push" on the line, and Martin may have over-pursuit issues, it's almost like we have to pick our poison. Either we have a guy who doesn't do anything bad but doesn't do anything great, or we have a guy who does great things while also making big mistakes. In a way, I prefer the latter. I'd rather we get beat and then have a big play over just give up little "big" plays over and over again as we fail to stop them.

And maybe this is more of a scheme issue than a player issue. Maybe Meredith would flourish in a different scheme. The one we're in right now doesn't seem to work unless we have a great DT with very good linebackers, and we don't have any of that, it appears.

 
Enhance89 said:
I acknowledge I don't know a lot about defensive schemes - I only have general understanding of the concepts players are supposed to implement on a given play.

But, I think the crux of the issue is we don't consistently make plays with our front four, zeWilbur. We just don't. If we use defensive statistics from 2009 and 2010, we see that we went from giving up 2.9 YPC with Suh, to giving up 3.9 YPC without him, and we returned most of our linebacking corp sans Dillard. 2011 had a 4.0 YPC average too and we had one of the best linebackers in Nebraska history.

So, although Meredith may "eat blockers" and provide a "uniform push" on the line, and Martin may have over-pursuit issues, it's almost like we have to pick our poison. Either we have a guy who doesn't do anything bad but doesn't do anything great, or we have a guy who does great things while also making big mistakes. In a way, I prefer the latter. I'd rather we get beat and then have a big play over just give up little "big" plays over and over again as we fail to stop them.

And maybe this is more of a scheme issue than a player issue. Maybe Meredith would flourish in a different scheme. The one we're in right now doesn't seem to work unless we have a great DT with very good linebackers, and we don't have any of that, it appears.
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I doubt that any other scheme would help Meredith. I think he is more useful against running teams than spread teams and we have hit a bunch of the spread recently.

I understand the concern for the d-line and their lack of playmaking ability. I also get that pretty much everybody wants an aggressive/attacking defense. The reality is that it just isn't Bo's defense right now. The d-line has been a playing less aggressively to make sure and keep blockers off of our linebackers who have not been great at shedding blockers. I think this is the actual crux of the problem(David was GREAT but you need more than one decent LB at a time). If our recruiting pans out then we will have some darn good LBs over the next few years and can let the line be more aggressive. Until then I would not count on it. You are absolutely right that we are in a pick your poison state. Pelini would rather choose to make the offense do it right 10-15 times then risk the big play. I'll admit it can be very frustrating to watch at times.

Most of what I have seen indicates that teams are going to continue to put the ball in the flats and try to beat our guys in space. It looked like we started using safeties to spy the RBs rather than cover them with a LB so that could open up some more aggressive options. I know that would make some people on this board happy. We'll have to wait and see what happens.

Side note. Is it possible that 2009 is actually useless as a comparator? Was Suh so dominant that the numbers skewed to the point of anomaly?

 
Martin needs to keep being the DE/LB hybrid. Let that kid continue to walk around the line and pick his attack. He is crazy enough to put his head down and explode people.

 
Joe_5700 said:
HuskerfaninOkieland said:
The Dude said:
gratefullred said:
Another thought, what the hell happened to this guy? I remember see a young Cam sub in late '09 screeming off the edge and looking to destroy QB's. Now he gained 30 pounds and cant move. This guy was poorly developed.
Click to expand...
No one was blocking him because Suh was being quadruple-teamed.
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That doesn't explain his lack of speed now. In '09 he was flying to the ball; played with emotion; hit hard; made the tackles. Everything the fans were excited about in a DE, Cam had it. Now Cam barely goes thru the motions, is slow as hell, misses tackles and loses about 5 jocks each game. Something is not right about that guy. He should be the guy bringing the heat, a leader on the field, etc.
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It's called the Cory McKeon effect...
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Exactly. Can't tell you how many times I wanted to punch my tv watching him arm tackle then take credit for a "tackle" when his participation amounted to nothing more than helping guys up off the field.

 
The Dude said:
zeWilbur said:
Quite a few of our DE's get caught looking inside and Meredith does not have the wheels to overcome a mistake like that and still be able to chase someone to the corner. That being said, containment is NOT his job. In 2-gap the sun rises and sets with eating blockers and having a uniform push across the line. He does this pretty well. I would love to see him not get beat to the sidelines like everyone else but I would like to see our linebackers doing their jobs too. Full disclosure, last game was definitely an improvement in this regard albeit against Arkansas State.

Unfortunately, Eric Martin is a liability. His aggressive play is great but he runs himself out of the play and only eats a single blocker in doing so. He can get better about not getting too far upfield, etc. but I just don't think he is there right now. This, combined with the DT's not getting much push, leaves a gaping hole for a QB to run through when the coverage is good. Yes, the downside of a 2-gap is that you need a DT that can beat 2 guys consistently and we are lacking that. But "unleashing caveman"(or anybody really) is just not an option without significant scheme revisions.

And that is why Meredith will not lose his job.
Click to expand...
They're both liabilities, just in different ways.

I'll take the liability that actual makes plays and wreaks havoc in the back field, gets off his blocks and punishes opposing quarterbacks, over the guy who's far too slow and weak to be an effective defensive end in any scheme.
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How in the hell have any of you seen enough of Eric Martin at DE to call him a liability? Right now when he's out there, I can guarantee you it's mostly situational. The coaches are probably telling him to get the quarterback. He's simply doing as he's told, and doing it quite well. Don't think for a second that just because all you've seen from him is bull rush bad a$$ motha fucka, that he can't play the patty cake patty cake baker man scheme that Bo teaches too.

 
I hope Cam revisits his old aggressive all-out style that made him a favorite. Somewhere it disappeared into the black-shirt hole. Kind of reminds me of Corey McKeon. They both bursted onto the scene playing wild and crazy and got after it. Then over time they both kind of regressed.

I still believe he can be a force. But that's up to him.

 
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