Chinander Defence: 103 lost points in last 3 games

Wistrom Disciple said:
Expressing emotion can be good and encouraged but when you're down 14-20+ points, flexing and waiving your arms in the face of your opponent is pretty dumb. I'm all for encouraging their teammates but (at least to me) it seems like a handful of the current guys would rather make the highlight reel than play in the postseason. I can't say that would be the case for the players in the 90s. 
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I just don't know how you measure that because that's not an either/or thing.

 
Husker in WI said:
I just don't know how you measure that because that's not an either/or thing.
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It's my perception, not a measurable statistic.

To that point, do you think Jason Peter would be throwing the bones if he were down by 28 to Miami? Or Suh would flex after being ran over by Ohio State's line all night but sneaks in a sack? I don't believe that either of them would be celebrating individual accomplishments if the team were getting embarrassed. 

 
Wistrom Disciple said:
It's my perception, not a measurable statistic.

To that point, do you think Jason Peter would be throwing the bones if he were down by 28 to Miami? Or Suh would flex after being ran over by Ohio State's line all night but sneaks in a sack? I don't believe that either of them would be celebrating individual accomplishments if the team were getting embarrassed. 
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I mean the first highlight in this video against USC Suh is celebrating - best I can tell we were only down 7-3 at that point, so not quite the situation you're talking about. To answer your question, I don't know whether they would've celebrated or not because they weren't in those situations. I look forward to the day when we don't have to question whether or not they should be celebrating because we're always winning/competitive.



 
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Thank you, celebrating individually when getting blown out is different than when you're winning or being competitive. Sadly, the current seniors haven't had the same level of winning or being competitive that we have previously enjoyed. Therefore when they draw individual attention to themselves, my perception changes to assume that they are okay with losing so long as they make the highlight reels. 

 
Landlord said:
Someday we'll have to stop using Mike Riley as an excuse for Frost's failures. It's been two years, most all of those players are gone, and Mike Riley isn't the most negatively powerful influence of a previous coach in the history of college football.

The way some people use him to excuse Frost's growing pains paints him out to be some warlock who cast magic spells and curses of laziness and incompetence over every square foot of campus. 
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Bin-freaking-go

We lost to a 2-6 Purdue team.  Without their best player. With their 3rd string QB carving us up.   That’s not Mike Riley’s fault. That is 100% on our staff.

 
Wistrom Disciple said:
Thank you, celebrating individually when getting blown out is different than when you're winning or being competitive. Sadly, the current seniors haven't had the same level of winning or being competitive that we have previously enjoyed. Therefore when they draw individual attention to themselves, my perception changes to assume that they are okay with losing so long as they make the highlight reels. 
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Maybe you should be on the sideline for every game that way when ever someone make a play they can look to you for the thumbs up or down on whether or not it's an appropriate time to celebrate during a game.

 
Landlord said:
He didn't suck bad enough to give Frost an excuse to be facing down another losing season late into year two. 
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So much this. In my opinion, coaching cost last year's team 2-3 games, easily. Yet, it was largely attributed to the losing culture created by Riley and his staff. Despite how bad Riley sucked...the 2018 team could have (and probably should have) made a bowl game. It hasn't been kosher to criticize Frost until relatively recently. But damn, this is on him. People want to blame the assistants, and they may be bad, but Frost hired them and it's his offense has been inconsistent garbage all year. 

 
LumberJackSker said:
Maybe you should be on the sideline for every game that way when ever someone make a play they can look to you for the thumbs up or down on whether or not it's an appropriate time to celebrate during a game.
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I'm not looking to be the celebration czar. I was simply pointing out that when your team is getting embarrassed and trailing by three or four scores, it may not be the best idea to do too much flaunting. This is part of what SF was talking about last year when he mentioned that it seemed as though some of the team "looks like they enjoy losing." 

 
TheSker said:
Depends on who "we" is.

The main blame Riley gets is a lack of development of players under his leadership.

Part of Frost's issue is simply from roster flipping and too many of his first recruits not working out.
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Riley’s players are now Frost’s players imo.  He has had them for 2 full off seasons, 2 full fall camps, and 1.75 seasons. At some point we need to start putting some blame on Frost for not developing them, no?

And by “developing”, I don’t mean into all  Americans or even all conference.  But proficient enough to win 6 games.

 
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Red Five said:
Riley’s players are now Frost’s players imo.  He has had them for 2 full off seasons, 2 full fall camps, and 1.75 seasons. At some point we need to start putting some blame on Frost for not developing them, no?

And by “developing”, I don’t mean into all  Americans or even all conference.  But proficient enough to win 6 games.
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Frost has the burden of the blame, yes.  I'm quite certain this season is tearing him up.

Do I blame Frost that the upperclassmen haven't developed well from either a skill or leadership standpoint?  Nah, it's the hand he was dealt.  He wanted to come here and we begged him to do so.

At UCF, he had some all conference talent that got drafted.

Riley left none of that.

I don't blame Frost for that.

You might.......

 
TheSker said:
Do I blame Frost that the upperclassmen haven't developed well from either a skill or leadership standpoint?  Nah, it's the hand he was dealt.  He wanted to come here and we begged him to do so.

...

I don't blame Frost for that.
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Would you credit Frost if he had developed that talent  into higher levels of leadership and skill that were thought impossible from the same players under Riley?

 
Landlord said:
Would you credit Frost if he had developed that talent  into higher levels of leadership and skill that were thought impossible from the same players under Riley?
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I think we gave Frost a lot of credit for turning last year's 0-6 talent into 4-2 talent to end the season.  We all saw the development.  That's where the optimism and pre-season rankings came from. That's why Frost's 4-8 felt different from Riley's 4-8. 

And that's why this year's 4-5 is such a gut punch. 

 
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