Democrats.. liars or did they see something else?

Guy Chamberlin said:
Problem is, the centerline for moderation has moved so far to the right in the last 20 years that we need responsible progressives to nudge it back where it belongs. Hilary Clinton was a habitual centrist and I think she actually suffered from it. The right likes to pillory Nancy Pelosi as a liberal, but she's takes money from the same lobbyists as the Republicans, and was willing to compromise along with the best of them back when this wasn't a binary system. 

Bernie Sanders is a different animal. He's portrayed as an extremist for advancing ideas like single payer healthcare and free college tuition, but Sanders and others are able to back up genuine policy initiatives with surprisingly plausible cost/benefit numbers. Back in 2009, when Americans were polled on potential healthcare systems, 60+ percent thought Single Payer was the way to go --- because it was clearly explained to them. When opponents screamed Socialized Medicine!, a reasonable law that would benefit as many Americans as possible was suddenly marginalized as extremist.

If Democrats serve up a slate of moderates promoting their willingness to compromise, I think they'll lose the moment the midterms are providing. I think a big part of holding Democrats accountable is reminding them how uninspiring the party establishment has been. 
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Well said. I agree with all of this... with one caveat:

It all applies to the who they nominate for president in 2020.

I still feel like there are a lot of conservative House seats & senate openings where they'd be best served to nominate a moderate. I know Roy Moore created special circumstances in Alabama, but had Doug Jones been a progressive liberal instead of a pro-gun moderate, Moore probably still wins. 

Another example is Phil Bredesen, a pragmatic moderate & former governor of Tennessee, who is running for Bob Corker's vacated Senate seat. He is by far the best candidate the Dems could've possibly drawn in Tennessee for a Senate seat they otherwise wouldn't have a shot at.

All things being equal, I'd prefer a progressive over a moderate. But I want them to win as many seats as they can to oust some of the crazy Republicans & be able to a actually accomplish things for whatever progressive they nominate in 2020.

 
It's still completely inexplicable how the Democrats seemed incapable of offering up someone who could just speak plainly (but gracefully and tactfully), who could speak the truths of, "Hey, look, I know a lot of voters will believe that I am X, Y, or Z, but listen to me and hear what I'm saying..." and then proceed to dismantle these ideas.

idk it seems completely absurd that politics has turned into such a game of showmanship that those within the system are completely unaware that a refreshing candidate who can address the elephant in the room and articulate the problem could/would win an election by a landslide. Even Bernie, for all his strengths, seemed incapable of that sort of genuine response. I don't think there would have been anything holding Bernie back from the White House if he would have kept his exact same platform and message but just added, "Hey, I totally get why people have reservations about me - I know some of my ideas seem outlandish, but A) I'm not unreasonable and B) even if I am, I'm going to surround myself by qualified experts and we will be pragmatic about this s#!t"

 
NM11046 said:
Nope.
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Oh it is a loooooooooooong shot for sure but it will be the best chance a 3rder would probably have.  Don't me wrong, I would not bet on it but if normally a 3rder has a 1% chance, I would think next election it would have to be higher than that. 

 
Landlord said:
It's still completely inexplicable how the Democrats seemed incapable of offering up someone who could just speak plainly (but gracefully and tactfully), who could speak the truths of, "Hey, look, I know a lot of voters will believe that I am X, Y, or Z, but listen to me and hear what I'm saying..." and then proceed to dismantle these ideas.

I think if people would have actually listened to Hillary speak,  she was a lot of the things you mentioned . Lots of people chose to believe the hype/smear machine instead though . They believed Benghazi , emails , liar,  crooked,  etc,  and anything she said beyond that was not heard . 

That tactic worked well for the right in 2016 and if the left doesn’t put forth the least smearable  candidate possible in 2020, I think the results will be the same . 
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Landlord said:
It's still completely inexplicable how the Democrats seemed incapable of offering up someone who could just speak plainly (but gracefully and tactfully), who could speak the truths of, "Hey, look, I know a lot of voters will believe that I am X, Y, or Z, but listen to me and hear what I'm saying..." and then proceed to dismantle these ideas.

idk it seems completely absurd that politics has turned into such a game of showmanship that those within the system are completely unaware that a refreshing candidate who can address the elephant in the room and articulate the problem could/would win an election by a landslide. Even Bernie, for all his strengths, seemed incapable of that sort of genuine response. I don't think there would have been anything holding Bernie back from the White House if he would have kept his exact same platform and message but just added, "Hey, I totally get why people have reservations about me - I know some of my ideas seem outlandish, but A) I'm not unreasonable and B) even if I am, I'm going to surround myself by qualified experts and we will be pragmatic about this s#!t"
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just curious, what strengths do you think Bernie has?

 
The first issue I see with a large number of posters in this forum, not just this thread is that seems (based on posts and threads) like they actually believe one side is doing good versus the other. Neither side is doing good, they haven't for a long time. Why? because they have learned how to funnel money into their bank accounts.

I created this about dems mainly because everything else was pretty much all about republicans in this forum, but they both flip flop to whatever direction the money comes from.

 
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Bornhusker said:
The first issue I see with a large number of posters in this forum, not just this thread is that seems (based on posts and threads) like they actually believe one side is doing good versus the other. Neither side is doing good, they haven't for a long time. Why? because they have learned how to funnel money into their bank accounts.

I created this about dems mainly because everything else was pretty much all about republicans in this forum, but they both flip flop to whatever direction the money comes from.
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I agree with you.  But it isn't just posters here, it is voters everywhere.  Just go down to your local Nebraska coffee shop and men, who would have no idea how to join a message board, will tell you that Hillary was doing the devil's work and "thank God" he sent us Trump to stop her....

Have you ever approached a republican who blindly supports their party the same way you approached this board?  If you have, what was the issue and how did they take it?  I ask, because I have seen first hand on this board how the "liberal" members shut down a poster when they go off the deep end on the left.  I don't remember the thread specifically, but Making Chimichangas has taken a lot of flack from posters.

 
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Bornhusker said:
The first issue I see with a large number of posters in this forum, not just this thread is that seems (based on posts and threads) like they actually believe one side is doing good versus the other. Neither side is doing good, they haven't for a long time. Why? because they have learned how to funnel money into their bank accounts.

I created this about dems mainly because everything else was pretty much all about republicans in this forum, but they both flip flop to whatever direction the money comes from.
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While I disagree that both sides are equally bad...

I heartily share this sentiment with you. The way everything in politics revolves around where the money at is inexcusable. We've been in this situation before as a nation. When politics is awash in money from big corporate & donor interests, politicians tend to do the bidding of... the corporations & the donors. Weird, right?

 
funhusker said:
I agree with you.  But it isn't just posters here, it is voters everywhere.  Just go down to your local Nebraska coffee shop and men, who would have no idea how to join a message board, will tell you that Hillary was doing the devil's work and "thank God" he sent us Trump to stop her....
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Oh, I know.. but since I am on this board, I am merely speaking about what I see here. 

 
I mean no disrespect, but if posters say they agree both sides are bad, why are they only posting about one side. On the republican side I think McCain is an absolute joke and has always been going the direction of the money.

I voted republican his last time because Hillary is evil. She is a puppet for the worlds elite pushes us to remove our Sovereignty for globalization

 
funhusker said:
I edited my post, probably while you were typing this response.

Have you ever approached the "other side" like you have this board?  If so, how did it go?  Any different?
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Sure I have, I don't care who gets angry with me. Neither side is going to change, trust they won't! IF they do, it won't be from a message board, it will be from their own mind opening up.

 
Bornhusker said:
Sure I have, I don't care who gets angry with me. Neither side is going to change, trust they won't! IF they do, it won't be from a message board, it will be from their own mind opening up.
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Good on you.  I agree with you, I want a govt that represents it's people not the money.  I would love for people to give up on their "team" and just focus on what's best for them, not the cronies with the cash.

 
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