Denying science in the classroom

[knapplc]

The Synod has extensive theology to back up what they believe. Of all the Christian sects I have explored, their interpretation of the origin of the Bible makes the most theological sense.

You cannot actually have it any other way, because as I explained before, if you start interpreting even one word of the Bible, that interpretation undermines every single word. Now, because it's interpretable, it's not infallible. It's not from an omniscient God, it's from sinful men.

If you can interpret Genesis to mean something other than what it says, you suddenly have authority to interpret every single thing about Jesus' life. You cannot do that and still have Jesus be without question God.

What you're saying doesn't make any sense. I know you don't believe it, so maybe i'm proving your point, but to read a single word of the Bible is to interpret.

There is no such thing as a form of communication that is pure and exactly what it ought to be. Interpretation is the means of understanding the world. Hell, the entirety of our reality is just our brain interpreting electrical signals and chemical secretions.

I don't hold to the inerrancy of Scripture, because language is errant. If God chose to communicate His nature through men, which I have no problem with the idea of or with people believing, He chose to condescend into a flawed, imperfect means of communicating, the way you would struggle to teach a six year old about democracy.

Doesn't matter if I believe it or not. I don't have to believe in something to be well versed enough in it to teach it.

Under what authority are you making these claims? Is this a church teaching or your own belief? What you're saying in this thread is not strictly Christian theology.

 

[Ratt Mhule]

So basically what you are saying is, the only "proof" that Christians have that their God exists is flawed? That is reassuring.

 

[QMany]

This is one of my problems with Christianity and not just Christianity, religion in general. People pick and choose things out of the bible and change it to fit their belief. I know in my post above, I threw in some satire, but all in all, that is what the bible says. The bible says God created the world in six days and rested on the seventh. Boom. Thats it. As a Christian you are told to believe in everything the bible says and does. So you saying the world was created over billions of years is going against what the bible says. Thats fine, you, like many Christians interpret it for your individual beliefs. But creationsits are the ones following the bibles teachings the way they are written. Language barriers aside, thats how its written in the modern day bible.

In my opinion, that is no different than the person who breaks laws in Leviticus on a daily, but only focuses on homosexuality passage. Or the person who says the Old testament doesnt count anymore because belief in Jesus is the only law we need to follow, but in the same breath condemns homosexuality, which was a passage in the Old testament. Now, I could be wrong, so forgive me, but I dont remember homosexuality being mentioned by Jesus.

Please don't hold Christians accountable for the crazy sh*t in their holy books, that is only reserved for MUSLIMS!!!

 

[zoogs]

This has been a really interesting religious discussion. Props to all those who have the knowledge in that area to offer their insights

 

[knapplc]

That is so interesting. If that's the Emmanuel in York, NE, it's a Missouri Synod church. I can tell you that such teaching is NOT part of Missouri Synod theology. It is not supposed to be different church to church, but I agree with you that it could be.

I can tell you that the way I described it is how the Missouri Synod teaches. If you were taught differently, it would not be endorsed by the Synod.

Small town in northern Nebraska. Its not Missouri Synod but I don't know what it's affiliation is. Also I should correct myself, I was thinking of confirmation classes not Sunday school. Although we were never taught to take the Bible literally as far as I remember in Sunday school. Confirmation classes were more of an open discussion than 'this is what we teach repeat after me.'

Confirmation has TOTALLY changed since I took it. We had to basically memorize all of Luther's Small Catechism, including the Meanings, and recite them before the Pastor. If we got even one word wrong we had to go back and practice again.

There was a lot of discussion, too, and overall it was a pretty positive experience - as much as possible for a kid in 7th & 8th grades having to do another 90 minutes of class after going to school "all day" could be.

We had really cool pastors in my church when I was a kid, though.

 

[Landlord]

I don't make any claims under any kind of authority. Just from my own experiences with God, deductive reasoning and attempts to learn what the Bible was intended to be. I know plenty of individuals and sects of Christianity that operate under the same ideas, but I guess every Christian is some other Christian's heretic, right?

Rike Miley - of course the Bible is flawed. Language is flawed. The Bible is written in languages. That's not the same thing as saying that it is wrong, or that it's not inspired, true, or able to inform about the nature of God.

 

[knapplc]

I don't make any claims under any kind of authority. Just from my own experiences with God, deductive reasoning and attempts to learn what the Bible was intended to be. I know plenty of individuals and sects of Christianity that operate under the same ideas, but I guess every Christian is some other Christian's heretic, right?

Don't take this the wrong way, but I see a lot of ten-years-ago-me in the way you speak about religion. Your path is different than my path so don't worry that I'm accusing you of ending up where I am. But it's interesting to see these kinds of statements from a strong Christian.

 

[Fru]

So which parts of Genesis are suppose to be interpreted the way it was written? Story of Adam and Eve or no?

As a Catholic, I was taught the bible is the literal word of God and that is the way it should be followed. And that is the way my teachers taught it at my school.

Do you have a hard time keeping up with every rule in Deuteronomy?

 

[Ratt Mhule]

And for the record, Landlord, I dont want you to think Im attacking you or your beliefs. When i was big into religion probably 3 or 4 years ago and would create topics in this forum, your posts/knowledge gave me inspiration. And when I felt myself falling, yours and some other folks posts kept me on the ledge for as long as I could without falling. Eventually I fell, however. I couldnt hold on any longer.

With that being said, I dont consider myself a full blown atheist yet. I still hold on to the thought that there may be a creator. I just dont think that creator is the Judeo-Christian or Islamic God. Or any other God that is man-made. I believe IF there is a creator, this creator does not really care too much about the Earth or its people. I believe that with how big the universe actually is, which is infinant, the possibility of Earth being the only planet with life is slim to none. Thats where I am at now. Who knows, as I get older, things may change.

 

[NM11046]

And this is one of the many reasons I fell out of religion. Christians telling each other they are wrong and not even able to agree on their own teachings. Everyone needs to get on the same page before you can convince other people to believe in what it is you believe.

Heh. I fell out of belief because of my extensive research into religion. The more I learned the more I realized it wasn't possible for it to be true. The eggshell cracks and suddenly it's gone. Can't unscramble the egg.

I'm not a big Bill Mahr fan, but I assume you've seen Religulous?

 

[Ratt Mhule]

So which parts of Genesis are suppose to be interpreted the way it was written? Story of Adam and Eve or no?

As a Catholic, I was taught the bible is the literal word of God and that is the way it should be followed. And that is the way my teachers taught it at my school.

Do you have a hard time keeping up with every rule in Deuteronomy?

I dont practice anymore, so not really haha

 

[Landlord]

I don't make any claims under any kind of authority. Just from my own experiences with God, deductive reasoning and attempts to learn what the Bible was intended to be. I know plenty of individuals and sects of Christianity that operate under the same ideas, but I guess every Christian is some other Christian's heretic, right?

Don't take this the wrong way, but I see a lot of ten-years-ago-me in the way you speak about religion. Your path is different than my path so don't worry that I'm accusing you of ending up where I am. But it's interesting to see these kinds of statements from a strong Christian.

You've said similar things to me before (I think something incredibly similar the night we got drinks before I moved to Atlanta), and I actually appreciate it. My love of God and trust in Jesus is stronger than it ever has been, which I agree is interesting, because it coincided with giving up a majority of the Christian dogma and doctrines that I historically would have said were not optional to believe in and still be a Christian. I'd wager that most serious Christians would say that I am not one. That's fine, I'm not concerned about them any further than being invested in them loving God and loving people.

Anyways, I want people to treat the Bible with actual respect, which I think is severely lacking in evangelicalism, at least. Hopefully, people can understand that the idea of taking the Bible literally does not actually make much sense at all, and that this whole thing is complicated, because it is not a book written from a modern lens, or even from the same lens. The Bible doesn't even agree with itself often. Understandings about God and about this life, according to the authors, grow and change and develop and sometimes disagree.

Scripture is not a room filled with clairvoyant theologians who have the same ideas and agree on every point. It is better understood as a room of wise elders, each an invited guest because of his unique voice and relation to God. Every elder has insight, but no elder has all of the answers, nor are any of them wholly liberated from humanity’s broken, sinful condition. Every voice is of value, but each will perhaps push too far in one direction and not enough in another, and each will push, in some way or another, in the wrong direction. When we read Scripture well, we listen in on the conversations of these elders, and, in conversations with other readers, seek as best we can to understand God’s voice. It is through this communal reading experience that God points us to his one and only solution for our broken condition: Jesus Christ.
- Kent Sparks’s “Genesis 1-11 as Ancient Historiography,”

 

[Fru]

So which parts of Genesis are suppose to be interpreted the way it was written? Story of Adam and Eve or no?

As a Catholic, I was taught the bible is the literal word of God and that is the way it should be followed. And that is the way my teachers taught it at my school.

Do you have a hard time keeping up with every rule in Deuteronomy?

I dont practice anymore, so not really haha

Hehe, forgive the snark. Couldn't resist.

My father is in the same boat as you. He uses the phrase "Recovering Catholic"

 

[knapplc]

And this is one of the many reasons I fell out of religion. Christians telling each other they are wrong and not even able to agree on their own teachings. Everyone needs to get on the same page before you can convince other people to believe in what it is you believe.

Heh. I fell out of belief because of my extensive research into religion. The more I learned the more I realized it wasn't possible for it to be true. The eggshell cracks and suddenly it's gone. Can't unscramble the egg.

I'm not a big Bill Mahr fan, but I assume you've seen Religulous?

I can't stand Bill Maher, so no.

 

[DrunkOffPunch]

If you don't mind me asking, why don't you like Maher?