Denying science in the classroom

knapp, you keep throwing around the words 'true' and 'real', and I really am not even sure what you mean by them.

Stories like creation/adam & eve, the tower of babel, noah's ark, et al I personally don't think are a dry, academic recording of actual history the way you would read in a history 101 book, if that is what you are asking. Because ancient cultures had no mindset of unbiased recording of events in that way. I still, however, think those books are inspired, as well as, "God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness.."

I just think their intention and literary form lends itself to something more nuanced than 'right' or 'wrong'. I think they are fully right in the way they were intended to be. Again, what does that even mean?

 
Landlord of Memorial Stadium said:
knapp, you keep throwing around the words 'true' and 'real', and I really am not even sure what you mean by them.

Stories like creation/adam & eve, the tower of babel, noah's ark, et al I personally don't think are a dry, academic recording of actual history the way you would read in a history 101 book, if that is what you are asking. Because ancient cultures had no mindset of unbiased recording of events in that way. I still, however, think those books are inspired, as well as, "God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness.."

I just think their intention and literary form lends itself to something more nuanced than 'right' or 'wrong'. I think they are fully right in the way they were intended to be. Again, what does that even mean?
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Please remember that we aren't talking about ancient cultures. Bronze-age man vs. Modern man is irrelevant in a discussion of a god who knows no temporal constraint.

If the Bible is the Word of God, such discussions have no bearing on this conversation. Hebrews 13:8

If it is not, then it is no different than Aesop's fables.

 
knapplc said:
I am failing to logically come to the same conclusion.
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OK. Which of these stories is true:

Creation in six days

Noah's Ark (Also, unrelated,

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Got any more loaded questions? "...explain, using the Bible's own words, how we are to know they are not true" lol.

If somebody wants to disprove the Bible or God, they will find all the proof they need to come to that conclusion. Conversely, if somebody wants to believe, they too will find all the proof they need. If that person's approach is scientific and fact based, they will end up where you are. It's a different realm and it has to be accepted as such......or not.

 
The answer to the question (which is not "loaded," because it is asking for strict facts, and is not based on assumptions) is that the Bible treats every one of those stories with the same level of truth.

Believe me, I've been there, that guy who didn't want to answer that question. I understand why it's not something you want to answer.

 
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I don't claim to be a Biblical scholar, and I won't try to be. But there are some things found in the Bible that have been confirmed through archaeology, and many that haven't; and probably never will be.

The Bible is what it is, a bunch of stories. Some have been supported through other evidence, like the politics of Jerusalem during the Roman occupation when Jesus was said to have lived. My opinion: treat the Bible like any other book. If it has support from another source, it might be true. If it doesn't, it is probably untrue or a work of symbolism. And maybe someday we'll find evidence to corroborate the stories we see as fiction now; but until then, it is faith based (which is okay as far as religion is concerned) and doesn't need to live up to scientific standards (therefore it has no place in the science classroom).

 
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knapplc said:
Landlord of Memorial Stadium said:
knapp, you keep throwing around the words 'true' and 'real', and I really am not even sure what you mean by them.

Stories like creation/adam & eve, the tower of babel, noah's ark, et al I personally don't think are a dry, academic recording of actual history the way you would read in a history 101 book, if that is what you are asking. Because ancient cultures had no mindset of unbiased recording of events in that way. I still, however, think those books are inspired, as well as, "God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness.."

I just think their intention and literary form lends itself to something more nuanced than 'right' or 'wrong'. I think they are fully right in the way they were intended to be. Again, what does that even mean?
Click to expand...
Please remember that we aren't talking about ancient cultures. Bronze-age man vs. Modern man is irrelevant in a discussion of a god who knows no temporal constraint.

If the Bible is the Word of God, such discussions have no bearing on this conversation. Hebrews 13:8

If it is not, then it is no different than Aesop's fables.
Click to expand...

I guess, if you assume that God communicated in a way that didn't make sense to the cultures of the time that the books were written. If the books of the Bible weren't culturally relatable, how would people have any idea what they were saying? Regardless, maybe it's not the "Word of God". Maybe it's a collection of stories from different people trying to figure out who God is. I'm good with that. My Christianity is not centered around the Bible.

The Bible is AT LEAST a collection of books and writings assembled by the Church that chronicle a people group's experiences with, and understanding of, God over thousands of years. EVEN IF that is a comprehensive definition of the Bible, study of scripture is warranted to understand our culture and the way in which people come to know God.
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knapplc said:
The answer to the question (which is not "loaded," because it is asking for strict facts, and is not based on assumptions) is that the Bible treats every one of those stories with the same level of truth.

Believe me, I've been there, that guy who didn't want to answer that question. I understand why it's not something you want to answer.
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The bolded part is a gross over-generalization at best. I think it's very clear that the parables are not meant to be literal accounts, so every part of the Bible does NOT have the same level of truth.

You keep coming back to the fact that some parts of the bible have been disproven, such as the ~6000 year old earth. I agree. But then you conclude that means everything is disproven. That's not a logical conclusion.

Let me give a more recent example. There are plenty of accounts that George Washington had wooden teeth, which turns out to be false. Does that mean everything else about Washington is false? No, just that one fact.

 
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RedDenver said:
knapplc said:
The answer to the question (which is not "loaded," because it is asking for strict facts, and is not based on assumptions) is that the Bible treats every one of those stories with the same level of truth.

Believe me, I've been there, that guy who didn't want to answer that question. I understand why it's not something you want to answer.
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The bolded part is a gross over-generalization at best. I think it's very clear that the parables are not meant to be literal accounts, so every part of the Bible does NOT have the same level of truth.

You keep coming back to the fact that some parts of the bible have been disproven, such as the ~6000 year old earth. I agree. But then you conclude that means everything is disproven. That's not a logical conclusion.

Let me give a more recent example. There are plenty of accounts that George Washington had wooden teeth, which turns out to be false. Does that mean everything else about Washington is false? No, just that one fact.
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Since my statement is a "gross over-generalization," please cite which part(s) of the Bible tell us that these stories are NOT to be taken as true:

Creation in six days

Noah's Ark

Job

Ruth/Esther

Elijah and the prophets of Baal

Balaam's a$$

Jesus' virgin birth

The tongues of fire at pentecost

Peter & the sheet of food

Saul's conversion on the road to Damascus

Please don't answer if you're not going to go through these one-by-one, because that is the crux of the question. Everyone wants to keep dancing around the answer, and believe me I know why it makes people uncomfortable to try and answer this, but it has to be answered if we're going to take a religion based off the Bible seriously.

 
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