Direction of the board

[Eric the Red]

Mike and I have been discussing some of the issues that I have brought up in regards to handling members. Below is most of the discusion via PM. I will be following up in the next couple days about the different points I am making and how I am thinking members should be dealt with. All of you are free to chime in and discuss this points. I hope you can bring an opinion to this discussion. I look forward to it. Thanks guys for all you do on the board. GO BIG RED!

This starts off with a PM from Mike. (There are a few more, but this is where it starts - and I did get permission from Mike to post this in the mod forum)

Eric I can see what you are trying to do. Train the new mods to take a professional business like approach. Great idea. No problem..
Giving them one uniform way to reply really ties their hands on how is the best way to react to each individual situation that are all different because each member and their demeanor are different.

The approach I used on the BC thread was warented because this individual wasnt trying to be A. Lincoln but Bill Callahan. Someone that could surely get a rise. Starts refering themselves in the third person. This is something that would get out of hand quick if not handled the way I did. Being nice would only show an individual like that , that we can be pushed around..

Not good..

I have to be honest that I have gritted my teeth and just kept smiling for a while. There is a balance and each mod we chose I trust can find that balance just like I did. Got to trust them to make good calls and propper reactions accordingly.

 

[Eric the Red]

Eric I can see what you are trying to do. Train the new mods to take a professional business like approach. Great idea. No problem..

The approach I want to take really doesn't have much to do with business in the sense of uniformity, but more so wanting to seperate us from all the message boards out there. It has more to do with taking a more friendly, human approach. A message board that just doesn't look at their members as numbers but productive, interesting and generally friendly folks that want to talk seriously about the Big Red.

We have accomplished so much as a board and Mike you are a huge part to this. There are so many things that we do that others, even the ones that charge their members to post, don't do. And I am so proud of that. As an alumni, I want to create a place where all members regardless of team affiliation can come and feel they are apart of something special. We are the only board that I can think of that offers gift certificates out to those who can pick a winning score and other contest, a board that allows its members to help in choosing mods, a board that takes suggestions from its members about design, possible trolls, and advertisements.

In order to accomplish many of these items we need lots of members. These things aren't free. Because we have a clothing store we are able to give back what we can to the board. In order to do more, we need more members. I'm not sure some of our approaches are very condusive to building a larger member base.

 

[Eric the Red]

Giving them one uniform way to reply really ties their hands on how is the best way to react to each individual situation that are all different because each member and their demeanor are different.

I don't feel I'm tying their hands much at all. Only criteria I'm asking mods and admins to meet is simple being nice. Use "please" and "thank you". What I have typed are merely examples of what I would like to see in our responses. If I wanted uniformity, I would post your responses in the general forum and just ask that you copy / paste what I have written.

 

[rawhide]

Absolutely nothing wrong with being cordial and receptive to listening. All members probably believe they are bringing valuable info and opinions to the board. Most are and some aren't. Other than the trollers/flamers just keeping the good members from going 10-8 on the trolls is the hardest thing seeing how I want to do the same thing too but restrain myself from that. Some members are definitely younger and it shows in the demeanor of their posts. The board remains a fluid environment with an almost impossible task trying to treat everyone the same all the time. IMO unless the post is really out of line more leniency should be given until the season starts and then keeping things tighter to rein in all the shotgun threads heading everywhere. :dunno

As ETR has stated increasing membership should be JOB 1.

GBR

 

[HSKRNOKC]

Eric I can see what you are trying to do. Train the new mods to take a professional business like approach. Great idea. No problem..

The approach I want to take really doesn't have much to do with business in the sense of uniformity, but more so wanting to seperate us from all the message boards out there. It has more to do with taking a more friendly, human approach. A message board that just doesn't look at their members as numbers but productive, interesting and generally friendly folks that want to talk seriously about the Big Red.

We have accomplished so much as a board and Mike you are a huge part to this. There are so many things that we do that others, even the ones that charge their members to post, don't do. And I am so proud of that. As an alumni, I want to create a place where all members regardless of team affiliation can come and feel they are apart of something special. We are the only board that I can think of that offers gift certificates out to those who can pick a winning score and other contest, a board that allows its members to help in choosing mods, a board that takes suggestions from its members about design, possible trolls, and advertisements.

In order to accomplish many of these items we need lots of members. These things aren't free. Because we have a clothing store we are able to give back what we can to the board. In order to do more, we need more members. I'm not sure some of our approaches are very condusive to building a larger member base.

That doesn't jive. The place has grown by leaps and bounds with the approach that the members have grown to know and trust. The over all gain of this board is due to the integrity that the members bring . They come here because they lurk and see a forum they like. Join up, and are existing and see that this is a great place. They stay..

We loosen up our approach and the overall community that you already have will diminish and negate any gain.

 

[HSKRNOKC]

Giving them one uniform way to reply really ties their hands on how is the best way to react to each individual situation that are all different because each member and their demeanor are different.

I don't feel I'm tying their hands much at all. Only criteria I'm asking mods and admins to meet is simple being nice. Use "please" and "thank you". What I have typed are merely examples of what I would like to see in our responses. If I wanted uniformity, I would post your responses in the general forum and just ask that you copy / paste what I have written.

Maybe I misunderstood your OP. I have no problem with please and thank you , but as I stated there comes a point where that is not going to achieve what you are trying for. We are on the internet and not face to face. Approaches have to change accordingly . Thats my only point.

 

[HSKRNOKC]

Eric I can see what you are trying to do. Train the new mods to take a professional business like approach. Great idea. No problem..

The approach I want to take really doesn't have much to do with business in the sense of uniformity, but more so wanting to seperate us from all the message boards out there. It has more to do with taking a more friendly, human approach. A message board that just doesn't look at their members as numbers but productive, interesting and generally friendly folks that want to talk seriously about the Big Red.

We have accomplished so much as a board and Mike you are a huge part to this. There are so many things that we do that others, even the ones that charge their members to post, don't do. And I am so proud of that. As an alumni, I want to create a place where all members regardless of team affiliation can come and feel they are apart of something special. We are the only board that I can think of that offers gift certificates out to those who can pick a winning score and other contest, a board that allows its members to help in choosing mods, a board that takes suggestions from its members about design, possible trolls, and advertisements.

 

In order to accomplish many of these items we need lots of members. These things aren't free. Because we have a clothing store we are able to give back what we can to the board. In order to do more, we need more members. I'm not sure some of our approaches are very condusive to building a larger member base.

Got it. Agree 100% . We also need to retain the ones we have .

Change the formula that has worked well and it will change the chemistry around here. This place is special because of the type of members that we have and also what they have come to expect. JMO

 

[knapplc]

Hopefully some of the newer Mods like me can chime in here. I've spent the vast majority of my time here as a regular member. Before becoming a Mod, all my interactions with the Mods and Admins were positive.

I've been a member of a LOT of message boards. I can't think of a board that has a better rapport between the members and the Mods than here. Look at how people treat BRI, Mike, Rawhide, zoogies, newearth, I See Red People, etc. Those interactions are easygoing and positive.

I have no problem with "please" and "thank you." That'll work most of the time, and it's easy enough to do. But there are going to be times when we have to be more direct. I'd just like to know that it's not going to be a problem to be more direct if someone goes out of control.

 

[rawhide]

carrot and stick sometimes it's just gotta be all stick (avatar)

Good point though. Lurkers see how we operate and like the differences from other boards and join here. We have to be lenient to a certain extent but keep it civil enough to please the majority that truly want a 'sker site that concentrates on the NUB's :horns2 (my next ink i think NUB)

GBR

 

[BIGREDIOWAN]

I totally understand what you're saying Eric and what you're saying Mike. There is obviously a happy median between the two that we need to find. I don't want us to be pushovers and do alot of "slapping" of the hand when it comes right down to it. Be decent about warnings and such, but be straight forward and to the point. I don't want us to be so brash that we chase members away with a type A personalty either. I don't agree with changing how we do things in the off-season though. We need to remain consistent and keep the board running the same time all the time. I think that'll take care of some problems by itself. I realize it's the off-season, but that doesn't mean that we need to let alot more things slide. We are chasing everything down at the beginning of the season that way. :dunno

 

[zoogs]

I think this discussion stems from Eric's previous thread here not so long ago. I'll start by saying I feel that it was a very insightful bit to always bear in mind. Now, all of us have different ways of moderating, which is OK. More than anything, I think that's good to keep in mind: different styles, same goal.

I'll start by saying I agreed with almost all of what Eric said in that post. For example, "Customer service will go a lot farther than arguing or becoming combative." As a member, I didn't mind calling someone out as caustically as possible if I felt they deserved it. As moderators, we're representing the board and there's a certain responsibility to at least watch it. Projecting a certain tone is pretty key to keeping the board a friendly environment for the members, and I'm a fan of being cordial and profressional.

At the same time, we aren't actually a customer service department, either. A suggestion from the other thread:

Something I always use to approach a member with is, "We have had a few memebers send us PM's about some of your posts, please just be aware of what and where you are posting certain content. (GIve a specific example) Does that make sense? If you have any questions about posting, please feel free to PM me and we can talk about it. Thank for your time and thanks for being a memeber."

is a terrific guideline, but in cases where the user is just being a problem, I don't feel it's the kind of tone we need to bend over backwards to maintain, no matter what. It's important to not get emotional, heated, or start trading verbial punches in dealing with even the most extreme of cases, but if it's clear that we have a problem, I think it's fine to just lay down the law, curtly and uncompromisingly if necessary. Something like, "Okay, that's enough. Continue and you're out." Of course, every case will be a judgment call and there is plenty of leeway in terms of what's appropriate.

I feel perhaps some of the uneasy sentiment from Eric's suggestion may have been that it was too nice and cordial, but I think the spirit of Eric's post is just to remind us to not lose control and start trading heat. I think that's a good baseline suggestion that leaves a lot of room to operate at our discretion.

Looking through this thread now, I thought I would just respond to a couple of points made.

"I'm not sure some of our approaches are very condusive to building a larger member base. "

I don't think this is totally fair. I think there's ample room for mods to operate in different ways, and if problems arise from it, we can look at it on a case-by-case basis and ask each other (and ourselves) if things could have been handled better. Having a common theme in moderating, whichever side of the lenient/hardline spectrum it falls on, isn't necessary, IMO. Neither is always good and neither is always bad. We have mods that cover a respectable slice of that spectrum (as in, not tending to the extremes), and I think that is important.

"Change the formula that has worked well and it will change the chemistry around here. This place is special because of the type of members that we have and also what they have come to expect. JMO "

I'm also not sure this is fair. Granted, as a new moderator I'm still getting a feel for the general 'formula' that has been established, but I see the chemistry of the board as something that is in a constant state of flux. I think an outstanding moderation job has been done to date and it's important to consider how that was done in moving forward. At the same time, I feel that it's important to be able to adapt as needed. I think this just goes back to my thought earlier that there needn't be one general formula, per se - rather, acknowledging and allowing for different approaches, trying not to make mistakes, and learning from them.

By the way, it's great to have a moderator board and a medium for this type of discussion - like this thread! - because being able to give and receive feedback is a critical component to that process, IMO.

"I don't agree with changing how we do things in the off-season though. We need to remain consistent and keep the board running the same time all the time."

I think I will respectfully disagree. The mod team looks after the board and makes sure things run smoothly. But the nature of the board and the flow of members and posts are not the same at all times of the year. In-season, with games every week and recruiting really heating up, there's a lot of news thrown around and keeping the board running "smoothly" then involves some more enforcement than the off-season, during which time we're all pretty bored and the news is slow. I can see why the off-season allows for a lot more leniency in the type of threads and behavior we'll tolerate.

An office analogy I'd throw out there is, if it's cram time, you gotta get down to business and keep everyone focused. Some guy throwing a random party for no reason and goofing off won't be tolerated. But if it's downtime, let's say just before the holidays and everyone's looking to go home already, nothing wrong with people letting loose a little. In the same way, I think it's okay to see more off-topic, more randomness now than in-season; there's not much better to talk about anyway and there's just no point in stifling that flow of discussion. For instance, when Bill Callahan first popped up on this board, I thought it was fine and pretty funny, actually (legal issues notwithstanding - haven't really followed that discussion). That got out of hand fast and the guy needed to be reigned in. But the first thread and couple of posts/statuses, I wouldn't consider offenses at all. Might feel slightly different if this were October.

In short: some things members do fall into the category of "just stirring up trouble" during the season, but in the slow months, fall under "just having some fun."

--

Overall, this is a good issue to bring up IMO; thanks Eric and Mike for the thread. Some interesting discussion going on. I think that's my thoughts for now - though I've mostly rehashed a lot of what's been said already. :cheers

 

[eliot1171]

An office analogy I'd throw out there is, if it's cram time, you gotta get down to business and keep everyone focused. Some guy throwing a random party for no reason and goofing off won't be tolerated. But if it's downtime, let's say just before the holidays and everyone's looking to go home already, nothing wrong with people letting loose a little. In the same way, I think it's okay to see more off-topic, more randomness now than in-season; there's not much better to talk about anyway and there's just no point in stifling that flow of discussion. For instance, when Bill Callahan first popped up on this board, I thought it was fine and pretty funny, actually (legal issues notwithstanding - haven't really followed that discussion). That got out of hand fast and the guy needed to be reigned in. But the first thread and couple of posts/statuses, I wouldn't consider offenses at all. Might feel slightly different if this were October.

It all depends on the circumstances. If they're braking board rules than there is no need to allow it. However, if someone is following rules yet still teetering on the verge, we absolutely have the right/duty to bring it to their attention in a polite yet objective way. If they choose to rebel on such sanctions, we are well within our "Board Morals" to permanently/temporarily take them out of commission. At that point it is obvious that they no longer want to be a part of a mature/educated discussion forum and are no longer apart of the "Greater Community".

I would have to agree with Eric. I don't think he's really being outlandish, nor do I think Mike (or anyone else) is claiming so. The bottom line is that we have a solid set of rules/base line set in place that EVERYONE is aware of. Because of this, there is no reason to be a hard a$$. It simply boils down to "this is the way it is. If you don't like it, I'm truly sorry and hope you will reconsider the opportunity at hand". I really don't know how many of you have to really manage others in your professional field, but I have to on a daily basis with over 25 people. There is no way I could maintain organization/moral unless I didn't keep things strictly objective. If you keep things objective, they will dig their own grave.

To be honest, I'm not sure what the fuss is about. While I do appreciate the overall concern we have (i.e. we all care), there really isn't a need for anyone to be upset. We are good at what we do. If we weren't, the board wouldn't be as successful as it is. Stick to the policies we have in place, be cordial in how we enforce them, and continue to build the strong relationships we have incubated here, and things will be golden.

 

[Eric the Red]

Eric I can see what you are trying to do. Train the new mods to take a professional business like approach. Great idea. No problem..

The approach I want to take really doesn't have much to do with business in the sense of uniformity, but more so wanting to seperate us from all the message boards out there. It has more to do with taking a more friendly, human approach. A message board that just doesn't look at their members as numbers but productive, interesting and generally friendly folks that want to talk seriously about the Big Red.

We have accomplished so much as a board and Mike you are a huge part to this. There are so many things that we do that others, even the ones that charge their members to post, don't do. And I am so proud of that. As an alumni, I want to create a place where all members regardless of team affiliation can come and feel they are apart of something special. We are the only board that I can think of that offers gift certificates out to those who can pick a winning score and other contest, a board that allows its members to help in choosing mods, a board that takes suggestions from its members about design, possible trolls, and advertisements.

In order to accomplish many of these items we need lots of members. These things aren't free. Because we have a clothing store we are able to give back what we can to the board. In order to do more, we need more members. I'm not sure some of our approaches are very condusive to building a larger member base.

That doesn't jive. The place has grown by leaps and bounds with the approach that the members have grown to know and trust. The over all gain of this board is due to the integrity that the members bring . They come here because they lurk and see a forum they like. Join up, and are existing and see that this is a great place. They stay..

We loosen up our approach and the overall community that you already have will diminish and negate any gain.

There really is no way to calculate how much the board has grown, or how many opportunities have we may have lost from a perceived negative approach.

Would you be more likely to hear someone say,"I'm not going to sign up for that board or I refuse to go back because they are just way too nice and professional."

or

the opposite, "Those guys are just jerks, they didn't even give me a reason, they were short with me and rude." <<< because like any business they go and tell there buddies or it's posted on facebook or whatever.

I think the answer is obvious.

We will never bat 100%, never, but at least if people get frustrated or leave they can at least say something like I just don't care for that board....don't like the set up.....it seemed like it was always down....there were too many forums,etc. But it should never be because of us.... we are beter than that.

We have to look toward the future and keep the board sustainable. Many of the older folks.....I don't know 40 and older are used to the straight forward "do it or get lost" attitude. The younger generation ...I guess around 40 and younger, especially 30 and younger do not appreciate it. They want reasons and answers and we need to offer it to them. The younger generation also networks very well. A few have a good experience, they tell others. The younger generation has more connections and friends. We want those friends here!!

 

[HSKRNOKC]

An office analogy I'd throw out there is, if it's cram time, you gotta get down to business and keep everyone focused. Some guy throwing a random party for no reason and goofing off won't be tolerated. But if it's downtime, let's say just before the holidays and everyone's looking to go home already, nothing wrong with people letting loose a little. In the same way, I think it's okay to see more off-topic, more randomness now than in-season; there's not much better to talk about anyway and there's just no point in stifling that flow of discussion. For instance, when Bill Callahan first popped up on this board, I thought it was fine and pretty funny, actually (legal issues notwithstanding - haven't really followed that discussion). That got out of hand fast and the guy needed to be reigned in. But the first thread and couple of posts/statuses, I wouldn't consider offenses at all. Might feel slightly different if this were October.

It all depends on the circumstances. If they're braking board rules than there is no need to allow it. However, if someone is following rules yet still teetering on the verge, we absolutely have the right/duty to bring it to their attention in a polite yet objective way. If they choose to rebel on such sanctions, we are well within our "Board Morals" to permanently/temporarily take them out of commission. At that point it is obvious that they no longer want to be a part of a mature/educated discussion forum and are no longer apart of the "Greater Community".

I would have to agree with Eric. I don't think he's really being outlandish, nor do I think Mike (or anyone else) is claiming so. The bottom line is that we have a solid set of rules/base line set in place that EVERYONE is aware of. Because of this, there is no reason to be a hard a$$. It simply boils down to "this is the way it is. If you don't like it, I'm truly sorry and hope you will reconsider the opportunity at hand". I really don't know how many of you have to really manage others in your professional field, but I have to on a daily basis with over 25 people. There is no way I could maintain organization/moral unless I didn't keep things strictly objective. If you keep things objective, they will dig their own grave.

To be honest, I'm not sure what the fuss is about. While I do appreciate the overall concern we have (i.e. we all care), there really isn't a need for anyone to be upset. We are good at what we do. If we weren't, the board wouldn't be as successful as it is. Stick to the policies we have in place, be cordial in how we enforce them, and continue to build the strong relationships we have incubated here, and things will be golden.

I agree 100%.

Actually this is giving me a headache.

Eric I see your point. You and I both are after the same thing. Board growth and success. I will do my best to adhere to the policy's set fourth.

I am a creature of habit and have done things the exact same way since way back. It has always been affective, but I am not narrow minded and am willing to adjust best I can.

To Elliot, I manage 320 separate accounts and around 75 to 100 people every day as an Operations Director. I consult now more than anything. I feel your pain. :cheers