Duval's S&C - Year 2

gobiggergoredder said:
I kind of have to agree here.  His hesitation has been out there all year.  Why pick one clip?  Just watch a game.
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I watched the game and didn't see what others claim to see. Him keeping his eyes downfield on a passing play when he could have ran for the first down might be bad decisiveness, but isn't what I'm perceiving people to mean when they say hesitancy in the running game, and I haven't seen Martinez be particularly hesitant as a runner. I've seen him "give up" on runs when he knew there wasn't anything extra to be had, and I've seen him try to bounce runs outside because that's what he does as a runner, and I've seen him try to make moves but fail because he's lost a step, but I haven't seen that.

Hence, I'm curious for examples of what people are talking about. Nobody has to give me one, but I'm interested in what people are seeing that I'm not.

BigPeterJ said:
I remember something like that being talked about but cant remember who said it so ill take your word for it.  It is more than just weight though.  Maybe his knee is worse than we thought? And some of it seems mental.  10-15 pounds doesnt slow you that much if your a college athlete.  
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I could have sworn I read that he put on 30 lbs of muscle between last season and this one.

 
Landlord said:
I could have sworn I read that he put on 30 lbs of muscle between last season and this one.
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I continue to doubt numbers like these. Adding 30lbs of muscle is a lot as a beginning weightlifter, which Martinez is not. And by “a lot,” I mean almost all research I’ve read says it’s virtually impossible. It’s even less likely for someone who’s been lifting for awhile. 

 
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In one year I put on 25 pounds, lost 1% bmi (underwater weighing), and got much more athletic.  You do this living in the weight room and allot actual8 hours of sleep.  My diet didn't really change but that was doubling my normal sleep cycle.  Don't underestimate what training can do.

 
madrat said:
In one year I put on 25 pounds, lost 1% bmi (underwater weighing), and got much more athletic.  You do this living in the weight room and allot actual8 hours of sleep.  My diet didn't really change but that was doubling my normal sleep cycle.  Don't underestimate what training can do.
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Let's say that you actually had a qualified person do a skin caliper test on your body fat percentage (not BMI) before and after you started this lifting regimen.

If your body fat percentage stayed roughly the same and you gained 25 pounds, then a decent portion of your added weight was most likely mass other than lean muscle mass. And that's perfectly normal. Notice that I said "most likely;" you have to do a skin caliper reading before and after to know for sure how much lean mass was added.

Do you understand what I'm saying?

Anyway, what @Moiraine said was correct - once the n00b gains are over, you don't gain 30 pounds of muscle in a year. 

 
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I am I said:
You could see it on the field. I personally believe we are just a “winning mentality” away from going 9-3/10-2 instead of 5-7. To me it’s mental, not physical 
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And the Sports Psychology department has remained untouched since the Riley days. 

Anyone that remembers Dr. Stark during our run in the 90s knows that Sports Psychology can help a coach and a team get over mental hurdles like this. 

 
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Moiraine said:
I continue to doubt numbers like these. Adding 30lbs of muscle is a lot as a beginning weightlifter, which Martinez is not. And by “a lot,” I mean almost all research I’ve read says it’s virtually impossible. It’s even less likely for someone who’s been lifting for awhile. 
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tl;dr - Testosterone is throwing gasoline on a fire and we can't know when anybody's kicks in. Think of it like a growth spurt but for filling out instead of getting taller.

The "seasoned lifter" argument is great but I feel it is more applicable to an upperclassmen. I think we are missing a crucial factor in this. He is a 18/19 year old kid and the hormones are raging. Every kid is different so you never know how/when it will hit. Anecdotally I think back to the summer before my senior year in high school. Doing T&F summer was my time off. I sat around my friends pool and played video games all day. I miss those days... Regardless, when school started up I had put on 15 pounds (205 to 220) and all my lifts increased about 10%. I have no idea what happened with muscle vs. fat so I won't make any claims but I would bet bone density was in there too. I had been lifting about 3 years at that point and was in shock that I had improved that much just sitting around. Even crazier, It happened again the next year. I thought it would just go like that forever. I was an idiot. Probably still am. But I would think a kid with better genes than mine would have something kick in similarly at some point. Combine that with actually lifting and eating well over a year and it wouldn't surprise me if they could put on 30 pounds of good weight in a year, but certainly not not every year.

 
Swiv3D said:
Bullsh**
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Considering this was in my discipline field, you're wrong.  I did underwater weighing and went from 8% to 7% with the gain.  I don't know where you got your training, but I know where five years of undergraduate work went for myself.  Maybe you didn't consider I'm a rather large person compared to the average Joe.  25 pounds for me isn't as substantial as compared to the average 5'7" male weighing 160 pounds.

 
madrat said:
Considering this was in my discipline field, you're wrong.  I did underwater weighing and went from 8% to 7% with the gain.  I don't know where you got your training, but I know where five years of undergraduate work went for myself.  Maybe you didn't consider I'm a rather large person compared to the average Joe.  25 pounds for me isn't as substantial as compared to the average 5'7" male weighing 160 pounds.
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You eating clen and trenning hard brah?

 
Undone said:
Let's say that you actually had a qualified person do a skin caliper test on your body fat percentage (not BMI) before and after you started this lifting regimen.

If your body fat percentage stayed roughly the same and you gained 25 pounds, then a decent portion of your added weight was most likely mass other than lean muscle mass. And that's perfectly normal. Notice that I said "most likely;" you have to do a skin caliper reading before and after to know for sure how much lean mass was added.

Do you understand what I'm saying?

Anyway, what @Moiraine said was correct - once the n00b gains are over, you don't gain 30 pounds of muscle in a year. 
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You should understand that skin caliper measurements are hogwash.  There are zero standards.  Underwater weighing is more indicative of true lean BMI delta over time.

And science wouldn't support your theory about the change being not lean muscle.  Between the ten the year before and the twenty five in that period, my physical appearance made significant changes in a good way.  The extra weight made a significant difference in running speed, agility, and control.  Maybe your 25 pound gains were a different experience. 

BTW - Martinez getting hurt and his weight gain are not casually linked.

 
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madrat said:
Considering this was in my discipline field, you're wrong.  I did underwater weighing and went from 8% to 7% with the gain.  I don't know where you got your training, but I know where five years of undergraduate work went for myself.  Maybe you didn't consider I'm a rather large person compared to the average Joe.  25 pounds for me isn't as substantial as compared to the average 5'7" male weighing 160 pounds.
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You do not arbitrarily gain 25 lbs in good weight without changing your diet. That's basic fitness triangle stuff. 

 
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Swiv3D said:
You do not arbitrarily gain 25 lbs in good weight without changing your diet. It's basic fitness triangle stuff. 
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When you ate about 6K calories per day, the adequate rest was your overlooked component.  Rest is the least respected aspect of training.  It made me a believer.  Unless I create circumstances to sleep an 8 hour night, it's not happening.  I've always been about a 4-5 hour a night guy.

 
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