Duval's S&C - Year 2

Swiv3D said:
There's no way you ate 6k calories a day and somehow had no idea what the power of sleep could do
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Wow, so much piss and vinegar.  You really show how little you know with these comments.  Training table after practice was targeted at 2,500 calories alone.  I guess our team nutritionists did it wrong, too.  I arrived on campus every day at 7 AM and film kept me there until around 9 PM.  We had one scheduled lift session every day where the trainers set the lifts.  If you wanted to specialize on anything then you went back.  That's the difference between chumps and champs, put in the time or shut up.  Sure sounds like what Frost is trying to restore.

 
madrat said:
Wow, so much piss and vinegar.  You really show how little you know with these comments.  Training table after practice was targeted at 2,500 calories alone.  I guess our team nutritionists did it wrong, too.  I arrived on campus every day at 7 AM and film kept me there until around 9 PM.  We had one scheduled lift session every day where the trainers set the lifts.  If you wanted to specialize on anything then you went back.  That's the difference between chumps and champs, put in the time or shut up.  Sure sounds like what Frost is trying to restore.
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Oh so now you're a former player. Awesome  :facepalm: . 

 
madrat said:
Wow, so much piss and vinegar.  You really show how little you know with these comments.  Training table after practice was targeted at 2,500 calories alone.  I guess our team nutritionists did it wrong, too.  I arrived on campus every day at 7 AM and film kept me there until around 9 PM.  We had one scheduled lift session every day where the trainers set the lifts.  If you wanted to specialize on anything then you went back.  That's the difference between chumps and champs, put in the time or shut up.  Sure sounds like what Frost is trying to restore.
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I can guarantee that a nutritionist would not have you consume 2500 calories in one sitting because you would not consume most of the macronutrients. Please do everyone a favor and stop blowing smoke up all of our a$$es

 
Swiv3D said:
Oh so now you're a former player. Awesome  :facepalm: . 
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Not from UNL, but yes.  Why does that upset you?  You realize your stink comes across as a little penis envy.  Your argument that Martinez could not gain 30 pounds of lean muscle in one year was academically wrong.  You are talking about a subject matter you are not an expert on.  And now you want to double down with insults.  You are immature.

CalhounHusker said:
I can guarantee that a nutritionist would not have you consume 2500 calories in one sitting because you would not consume most of the macronutrients. Please do everyone a favor and stop blowing smoke up all of our a$$es
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You're right.  Eating as much as they put on the trays was easy.  I'm sure the body wasn't absorbing it all.  But in those days you forced yourself to eat, drink, and sleep on a schedule.  Practices were very hot during three a days and you were training full time.  I dropped a lot of water weight, too, and I know what it is like to suck down a gallon of water between practices on the orders of the A-T.  I know what kidney stones are like from over training, too, and drinking water when its hard to swallow anymore is far better option.  You push the envelope if you want to win.

 
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madrat said:
Not from UNL, but yes.  Why does that upset you?  You realize your stink comes across as a little penis envy.  Your argument that Martinez could not gain 30 pounds of lean muscle in one year was academically wrong.  You are talking about a subject matter you are not an expert on.  And now you want to double down with insults.  You are immature.

You're right.  Eating as much as they put on the trays was easy.  I'm sure the body wasn't absorbing it all.  But in those days you forced yourself to eat, drink, and sleep on a schedule.  Practices were very hot during three a days and you were training full time.  I dropped a lot of water weight, too, and I know what it is like to suck down a gallon of water between practices on the orders of the A-T.  I know what kidney stones are like from over training, too, and drinking water when its hard to swallow anymore is far better option.  You push the envelope if you want to win.
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Coming from the guy who had to spend 5 years in college to learn about the wonders of sleep. You're not as smart as you think you are. 

 
CalhounHusker said:
I can guarantee that a nutritionist would not have you consume 2500 calories in one sitting because you would not consume most of the macronutrients. Please do everyone a favor and stop blowing smoke up all of our a$$es
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It actually isnt hard to consume 2500 in a sitting, especially if you're a top-notch athlete.  

You can consume 2-12oz steaks, a baked sweet potato and a cup or two of brown rice and you are at your 2500 mark.  

Hell, Im not a top notch athlete and I can eat that much. 

 
Stumpy1 said:
It actually isnt hard to consume 2500 in a sitting, especially if you're a top-notch athlete.  

You can consume 2-12oz steaks, a baked sweet potato and a cup or two of brown rice and you are at your 2500 mark.  

Hell, Im not a top notch athlete and I can eat that much. 
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I eat that much and I'm on the sofa for the rest of the day! :P

 
madrat said:
You should understand that skin caliper measurements are hogwash.  There are zero standards.  Underwater weighing is more indicative of true lean BMI delta over time.

And science wouldn't support your theory about the change being not lean muscle.  Between the ten the year before and the twenty five in that period, my physical appearance made significant changes in a good way.  The extra weight made a significant difference in running speed, agility, and control.  Maybe your 25 pound gains were a different experience. 

BTW - Martinez getting hurt and his weight gain are not casually linked.
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I'm not wanting to argue with you here, by the way. Weightlifting and nutrition discussion is a topic I really enjoy. Also, I'm not here to tell you you're lying or wrong about the gains you had in college at all.

This part is basic though: If you gain, say, 10 pounds while weight training and at the end of that period of time your body fat percentage stayed exactly the same, it's possible that some of the mass gained was fat, and part was muscle. Hopefully you're not saying that this isn't true because it is no doubt demonstrably true.

madrat said:
When you ate about 6K calories per day, the adequate rest was your overlooked component.  Rest is the least respected aspect of training.  It made me a believer.  Unless I create circumstances to sleep an 8 hour night, it's not happening.
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Totally agree. Arguably the order of importance of the top 3 variables are:

1. Total protein intake.

2. Adequate sleep (and also quality of sleep).

3. The actual training regimen.

 
Stumpy1 said:
It actually isnt hard to consume 2500 in a sitting, especially if you're a top-notch athlete.  

You can consume 2-12oz steaks, a baked sweet potato and a cup or two of brown rice and you are at your 2500 mark.  

Hell, Im not a top notch athlete and I can eat that much. 
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I wasn’t stating that the consumption of 2500 calories is hard, but in a 3-4 hour period you body can really only consume around 40-50g of protein, which is why bodybuilder eats 5-6 meals daily to spread out the macros. 

Also, 2 cups of brown rice, 8 oz of sweet potato and 10 oz of steak are around 1200 calories. So again, people often overestimate the calories consumed when they trying to bulk.

I also can guarantee an athlete who has been training for 4-6 years isn’t going to put on 30 lbs of muscle while losing a percentage of fat.

 
CalhounHusker said:
I wasn’t stating that the consumption of 2500 calories is hard, but in a 3-4 hour period you body can really only consume around 40-50g of protein, which is why bodybuilder eats 5-6 meals daily to spread out the macros. 

Also, 2 cups of brown rice, 8 oz of sweet potato and 10 oz of steak are around 1200 calories. So again, people often overestimate the calories consumed when they trying to bulk.

I also can guarantee an athlete who has been training for 4-6 years isn’t going to put on 30 lbs of muscle while losing a percentage of fat.
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Your first part is a subject of debate. I know a few S&C coaches and guys that have been lifting and doing dietary stuff for a long long time and they will consume anywhere from 100 to 150 grams of protein up to an hour after they get done lifting.  

I usually never go off a calories but off of macros but I can tell you 12 oz steak is roughly 950 calories. A cup of brown rice is 250. And an 8 oz potatoes roughly 225.  

I completely agree with your last part.

 
madrat said:
Considering this was in my discipline field, you're wrong.  I did underwater weighing and went from 8% to 7% with the gain.  I don't know where you got your training, but I know where five years of undergraduate work went for myself.  Maybe you didn't consider I'm a rather large person compared to the average Joe.  25 pounds for me isn't as substantial as compared to the average 5'7" male weighing 160 pounds.
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No offense but 5 years of undergrad and don’t know the difference between bf% and BMI?  A “bmi” dropping 1%??? Considering BMI is a correlation of height and mass it’s mathematically impossible for you to add on 25 pounds and drop 1% BMI 

 
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