For Comparison....

alexhortdog95 said:
NO, OMG....

I'm saying that during adversity - when the head coach makes a PERSONAL decision to hold on to a guy because of how he FEELS for the guy - nothing good comes of it.  In Meyer's case, he held onto Smith because he was the grandson of Earle Bruce, his mentor.  In Joe Pa's case, he held onto Sandusky because of how he felt about the guy.  They made PERSONAL decisions and it cost them their jobs, and their programs were looked down upon.
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Those are still very different reasons to need to fire someone. You're assuming Frost won't fire them because of personal reasons, and I would say it's very likely that's not the case and he actually believes in their scheme and coaching abilities. He could be wrong, but that's more similar to something like Dantonio - his loyalty to his offensive staff could get him fired. Difference is they're not producing after 7 years, not 1 and a half into a rebuild.

 
Husker in WI said:
Those are still very different reasons to need to fire someone. You're assuming Frost won't fire them because of personal reasons, and I would say it's very likely that's not the case and he actually believes in their scheme and coaching abilities. He could be wrong, but that's more similar to something like Dantonio - his loyalty to his offensive staff could get him fired. Difference is they're not producing after 7 years, not 1 and a half into a rebuild.
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Okay, that's a good point there, the Dantonio reference.  I'll give you that one.

Look, like I said earlier - I really want Frost to succeed.  I do.  But another year of the last year and a half, and the guy will probably be on the block, and I'd hate to see a guy with so much potential exit because of personal loyalties.

 
alexhortdog95 said:
Seriously...guy was only the best man in his wedding and they've coached with each other since their Oregon days....I'd think it's pretty personal.
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Maybe you should think about who you compare because your argument comes off as very fragmented bringing in situations like Urban Meyer or Joe Paterno. Frost has coached with Chinander for a long time, so its fair to also assume he has Chinander on the staff because he likes the way Chinander coaches football. He has seen it up close and personal for almost a decade. If Chinander were to be caught up in a scandal we don't know that Frost wouldn't cut ties.

 
Nebfanatic said:
Maybe you should think about who you compare because your argument comes off as very fragmented bringing in situations like Urban Meyer or Joe Paterno. Frost has coached with Chinander for a long time, so its fair to also assume he has Chinander on the staff because he likes the way Chinander coaches football. He has seen it up close and personal for almost a decade. If Chinander were to be caught up in a scandal we don't know that Frost wouldn't cut ties.
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See Dantonio reference above.  Already conceded that point.

 
alexhortdog95 said:
Okay, that's a good point there, the Dantonio reference.  I'll give you that one.

Look, like I said earlier - I really want Frost to succeed.  I do.  But another year of the last year and a half, and the guy will probably be on the block, and I'd hate to see a guy with so much potential exit because of personal loyalties.
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Fair enough, and I agree. I'm just a little more optimistic next year will have more pieces and won't be a repeat. I admittedly do not have a lot to back that up at the moment though.

 
Nebfanatic said:
If thats the case Chinander has a few more years to show us what he can do
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Husker in WI said:
Fair enough, and I agree. I'm just a little more optimistic next year will have more pieces and won't be a repeat. I admittedly do not have a lot to back that up at the moment though.
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Here's a thought - okay, let's not fire a guy.  Let's bring in a co-coordinator.  That's not a foreign idea.  Right now, the Buckeyes, Michigan, and other teams have a ton of co-coordinators.  And it seems to help, tremendously.  Buckeyes had one of the worst Ds last year, and it turned around and is the #2 Total D, #1 Scoring D in the country this year.

My thought is that you're not going to get a top flight coordinator like a Venables or Mattison.  You gotta get someone that is up and coming, but proven at the same time.

Thoughts?

 
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alexhortdog95 said:
Here's a thought - okay, let's not fire a guy.  Let's bring in a co-coordinator.  That's not a foreign idea.  Right now, the Buckeyes, Michigan, and other teams have a ton of co-coordinators.  And it seems to help, tremendously.  Buckeyes had one of the worst Ds last year, and it turned around and is the #2 Total D, #1 Scoring D in the country this year.

My thought is that you're not going to get a top flight coordinator like a Venables or Mattison.  You gotta get someone that is up and coming, but proven at the same time.

Thoughts?
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I think it would be really difficult since the staff has been together since UCF. You can argue that would be 'personal reasons' getting in the way, but it could also just be too many cooks in the kitchen. Unless they are very similar to Chinander in style, I think it would make things worse, not better. I think it would have to be something like an advisor, who knows his role is to help but not run the defense. I don't think a lot of guys are up for that.

OSU has a great situation with co-DCs, a young guy and an experienced one. But they were hired together, they knew that was the arrangement from the start. There's just not a lot of guys who fit that mold, an experienced coach who is willing to mentor a newer DC while mostly taking a back seat.

 
Husker in WI said:
I think it would be really difficult since the staff has been together since UCF. You can argue that would be 'personal reasons' getting in the way, but it could also just be too many cooks in the kitchen. Unless they are very similar to Chinander in style, I think it would make things worse, not better. I think it would have to be something like an advisor, who knows his role is to help but not run the defense. I don't think a lot of guys are up for that.

OSU has a great situation with co-DCs, a young guy and an experienced one. But they were hired together, they knew that was the arrangement from the start. There's just not a lot of guys who fit that mold, an experienced coach who is willing to mentor a newer DC while mostly taking a back seat.
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You have to get an older DC who is ready to get outta the game, but just wants to mentor an up and coming young cat.  I think they're out there, just takes looking.  Imagine if Ted Roof came from Appy State to mentor Chin here, and Frost gets his guys offensively to run what he wants to....

 
alexhortdog95 said:
Here's a thought - okay, let's not fire a guy.  Let's bring in a co-coordinator.  That's not a foreign idea.  Right now, the Buckeyes, Michigan, and other teams have a ton of co-coordinators.  And it seems to help, tremendously.  Buckeyes had one of the worst Ds last year, and it turned around and is the #2 Total D, #1 Scoring D in the country this year.

My thought is that you're not going to get a top flight coordinator like a Venables or Mattison.  You gotta get someone that is up and coming, but proven at the same time.

Thoughts?
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I don't think its a terrible idea but my whole thing here is I don't think we need any of that yet. I wouldn't be opposed if it was the right fit

 
Nebfanatic said:
I don't think its a terrible idea but my whole thing here is I don't think we need any of that yet. I wouldn't be opposed if it was the right fit
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If they have more games like the last two, I'd think it would be warranted.  Sometimes you have to take a step back and have a fresh set of eyes look at it to come up with a fix for what ails ya...

 
alexhortdog95 said:
If they have more games like the last two, I'd think it would be warranted.  Sometimes you have to take a step back and have a fresh set of eyes look at it to come up with a fix for what ails ya...
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I feel like they do already but not midseason when little can be done about it. They self scout after the season is over and I'm sure they use more resources than just themselves.

 
alexhortdog95 said:
If they have more games like the last two, I'd think it would be warranted.  Sometimes you have to take a step back and have a fresh set of eyes look at it to come up with a fix for what ails ya...
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And they may be looking for someone, we don't know. But it also depends on how the coaches perceive the issues. If they truly believe the scheme is good and we just don't have the dudes yet, adding another voice may not be the move. But if they're realizing Chinander's defense doesn't have all of the adjustments developed yet, and experienced guy would be very helpful. I think that's a little bit of what they were going for with Tuoti, get some of Wilcox's tweaks by extension.

 
alexhortdog95 said:
Look, like I said earlier - I really want Frost to succeed.  I do.  But another year of the last year and a half, and the guy will probably be on the block, and I'd hate to see a guy with so much potential exit because of personal loyalties.
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There are 3 men with credibility to Frost that we can be confident wouldn't let this happen.

Matt Davison

Tom Osborne

Bill Moos

If those three really believed Chinander needed to go....they would make it happen.

Frost is not running this program cavalier.

 
How did Clemson (Dabo) go from a below average team to perennial national title contenders??

He fired his defensive and offensive coordinators, and went out a got the best he could get.  Not friends not promoting from within.

Frosts assistants will make or break him.

Another year of 30 point Chinander and Frosts seat will be red hot.

 
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