Gun Control

[Scratchtown]

Why do people need assault rifles to hunt?

I'm assuming you mean a AR-15 rifle, not a real assault rifle since they're effectively banned? In that case, there's zero functional difference between a standard AR-15 and a ranch rifle like the ruger mini 14 that's been used for hunting for over half a century, other than the fact that it's black.

Thanks. I actually wanted a real answer. I know next to nothing about guns.

Yes, and cosmetically looks like the guns in movies. Which is the driving force behind the fear of AR-15 of those who don't know anything about guns.

 

[HuskerNation1]

What about explosive materials Zoogs? Lets say guns do get regulated or even go away all together, do these extremists/criminals/unstable people all of a sudden become good people? Do they continue to find a way to commit such violence?

It might not be the mass murder but they are still lives that get killed through other avenues. One life is also 1 too much.

I just have a REALLY hard time accepting that these crimes and horrible incidents only blame the weapon and not the abstract of the shooter. It's not easy! It's not! It's absolutely disgusting! Horrible!

How do you turn an intolerant person into a more accepting person?!

The Liberal left refused to accept that radical islamists are out to get us, and that ISIS has grown by 4400% under Obama's watch and will continue to pose a threat to our nation for years to come. They use the gun control debate to deflect from the reality of what is happening, and its really sad.

 

[Saunders]

Why do people need assault rifles to hunt?

I'm assuming you mean a AR-15 rifle, not a real assault rifle since they're effectively banned? In that case, there's zero functional difference between a standard AR-15 and a ranch rifle like the ruger mini 14 that's been used for hunting for over half a century, other than the fact that it's black.

Thanks. I actually wanted a real answer. I know next to nothing about guns.

No prob. I've made my thoughts in the issue clear many times, but it's hard to get into legitimate discussions with many people because there's so much misinformation and scaremongering done by the media and politicians both R & D.

 

[zoogs]

The reality? Of course terrorists get a kick out of killing us. We've been fighting a war with them for the last decade and a half, and that will continue. ISIS will be degraded one day to a point that some other awful group with some other acronym can grow enough for partisans in the U.S. to toss around meaningless statistics. And, I expect, we'll carry on drone striking them into oblivion.

If there's a distraction, it's the endless war being used as one from the staggering banality of gun violence here. It was worse one day, I'm sure. It will be better another day, I'm equally sure. I would hope we're part of the generation that gets us there, but that won't happen if we're simply uninterested in doing something about it.

 

[Guy Chamberlin]

What about explosive materials Zoogs? Lets say guns do get regulated or even go away all together, do these extremists/criminals/unstable people all of a sudden become good people? Do they continue to find a way to commit such violence?

It might not be the mass murder but they are still lives that get killed through other avenues. One life is also 1 too much.

I just have a REALLY hard time accepting that these crimes and horrible incidents only blame the weapon and not the abstract of the shooter. It's not easy! It's not! It's absolutely disgusting! Horrible!

How do you turn an intolerant person into a more accepting person?!

The Liberal left refused to accept that radical islamists are out to get us, and that ISIS has grown by 4400% under Obama's watch and will continue to pose a threat to our nation for years to come. They use the gun control debate to deflect from the reality of what is happening, and its really sad.

What I want to say to you will get me kicked off the board.

But that's just the worst extrapolation of non-fact you could cobble together, to support a thesis that doesn't understand the threat to America from either guns or radical Islam.

What a terrible time to be peddling this horsesh#t.

 

[Saunders]

You can't do away with criminals.

But I completely do not accept that you can't reduce gun violence by reducing access.

CNN is reporting that he had been employed for over 8 years as a security guard by private security firm that was doing contract work for the government, but was also on a suspected ISIS sympathizer watch list. Details are still coming, but going by what's coming out as of now, he was as qualified as could be from a professional standpoint. No idea how the watch list stuff didn't raise red flags though.

 

[HuskerNation1]

What about explosive materials Zoogs? Lets say guns do get regulated or even go away all together, do these extremists/criminals/unstable people all of a sudden become good people? Do they continue to find a way to commit such violence?

It might not be the mass murder but they are still lives that get killed through other avenues. One life is also 1 too much.

I just have a REALLY hard time accepting that these crimes and horrible incidents only blame the weapon and not the abstract of the shooter. It's not easy! It's not! It's absolutely disgusting! Horrible!

How do you turn an intolerant person into a more accepting person?!

The Liberal left refused to accept that radical islamists are out to get us, and that ISIS has grown by 4400% under Obama's watch and will continue to pose a threat to our nation for years to come. They use the gun control debate to deflect from the reality of what is happening, and its really sad.

What I want to say to you will get me kicked off the board.

But that's just the worst extrapolation of non-fact you could cobble together, to support a thesis that doesn't understand the threat to America from either guns or radical Islam.

What a terrible time to be peddling this horsesh#t.

What is non-factual...Obama's own FBI Director has come out and said that ISIS has grown by 4400% during Obama's tenure. It's not something made up. It's why when I responded to your post earlier this week about the biggest failures of the Obama Presidency, I listed ISIS as #1.

 

[Guy Chamberlin]

how many people died in car accidents or in smoking related illness in the same time span? no call for banning cars or cigs?

This has come up often. I think nobody has explained it better than the President himself.

Although as the headline mentions, it will no doubt be ignored.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2016/06/03/obama_gun_control_is_not_that_different_than_driving_safety_video.html

 

[Guy Chamberlin]

What about explosive materials Zoogs? Lets say guns do get regulated or even go away all together, do these extremists/criminals/unstable people all of a sudden become good people? Do they continue to find a way to commit such violence?

It might not be the mass murder but they are still lives that get killed through other avenues. One life is also 1 too much.

I just have a REALLY hard time accepting that these crimes and horrible incidents only blame the weapon and not the abstract of the shooter. It's not easy! It's not! It's absolutely disgusting! Horrible!

How do you turn an intolerant person into a more accepting person?!

The Liberal left refused to accept that radical islamists are out to get us, and that ISIS has grown by 4400% under Obama's watch and will continue to pose a threat to our nation for years to come. They use the gun control debate to deflect from the reality of what is happening, and its really sad.

What I want to say to you will get me kicked off the board.

But that's just the worst extrapolation of non-fact you could cobble together, to support a thesis that doesn't understand the threat to America from either guns or radical Islam.

What a terrible time to be peddling this horsesh#t.

What is non-factual...Obama's own FBI Director has come out and said that ISIS has grown by 4400% during Obama's tenure. It's not something made up. It's why when I responded to your post earlier this week about the biggest failures of the Obama Presidency, I listed ISIS as #1.

Go ahead and walk me through the rise of ISIS.

Use facts.

I dare you.

 

[HuskerNation1]

What about explosive materials Zoogs? Lets say guns do get regulated or even go away all together, do these extremists/criminals/unstable people all of a sudden become good people? Do they continue to find a way to commit such violence?

It might not be the mass murder but they are still lives that get killed through other avenues. One life is also 1 too much.

I just have a REALLY hard time accepting that these crimes and horrible incidents only blame the weapon and not the abstract of the shooter. It's not easy! It's not! It's absolutely disgusting! Horrible!

How do you turn an intolerant person into a more accepting person?!

The Liberal left refused to accept that radical islamists are out to get us, and that ISIS has grown by 4400% under Obama's watch and will continue to pose a threat to our nation for years to come. They use the gun control debate to deflect from the reality of what is happening, and its really sad.

What I want to say to you will get me kicked off the board.

But that's just the worst extrapolation of non-fact you could cobble together, to support a thesis that doesn't understand the threat to America from either guns or radical Islam.

What a terrible time to be peddling this horsesh#t.

What is non-factual...Obama's own FBI Director has come out and said that ISIS has grown by 4400% during Obama's tenure. It's not something made up. It's why when I responded to your post earlier this week about the biggest failures of the Obama Presidency, I listed ISIS as #1.

Go ahead and walk me through the rise of ISIS.

Use facts.

I dare you.

https://www.aei.org/publication/brennan-admits-isis-was-decimated-under-bush-but-has-grown-under-obama-by-as-much-as-4400-percent/

http://freebeacon.com/national-security/cia-director-isis-has-grown-4400-percent-under-obama/

ISIS as an organization was formed in 1999 so has spanned the past 3 Presidents. They were pretty much wiped out under Bush's watch according to the CIA director, but have risen to prominence under Obama's tenure.

 

[zoogs]

CNN is reporting that he had been employed for over 8 years as a security guard by private security firm that was doing contract work for the government, but was also on a suspected ISIS sympathizer watch list. Details are still coming, but going by what's coming out as of now, he was as qualified as could be from a professional standpoint. No idea how the watch list stuff didn't raise red flags though.

Yeah, I'm sure this will spur some change in policies. I don't think you'll ever be able to stop ostensibly qualified or clean-sheet people from becoming either radicalized, unstable, or perhaps always having been so.

We're not a society separated into pure do-gooders and inherently evil maniacs. The things that lead people down a criminal path are more complicated than that, which is why I'm not particularly sanguine about a "Blame that one guy *really* hard" as a means of convincing ourselves we've fixed something.

The guy who shot his former professor at UCLA, for example. Yes, he was terrible. That was terrible. But assuming he was a PhD student with zero criminal record, I don't see how any level of background checks would have prevented him from legally acquiring a firearm. Is that an argument for no checks at all? That all these efforts at tighter checks are wasted? I don't know.

 

[mrandyk]

What about explosive materials Zoogs? Lets say guns do get regulated or even go away all together, do these extremists/criminals/unstable people all of a sudden become good people? Do they continue to find a way to commit such violence?

It might not be the mass murder but they are still lives that get killed through other avenues. One life is also 1 too much.

I just have a REALLY hard time accepting that these crimes and horrible incidents only blame the weapon and not the abstract of the shooter. It's not easy! It's not! It's absolutely disgusting! Horrible!

How do you turn an intolerant person into a more accepting person?!

The Liberal left refused to accept that radical islamists are out to get us, and that ISIS has grown by 4400% under Obama's watch and will continue to pose a threat to our nation for years to come. They use the gun control debate to deflect from the reality of what is happening, and its really sad.

What I want to say to you will get me kicked off the board.

But that's just the worst extrapolation of non-fact you could cobble together, to support a thesis that doesn't understand the threat to America from either guns or radical Islam.

What a terrible time to be peddling this horsesh#t.

What is non-factual...Obama's own FBI Director has come out and said that ISIS has grown by 4400% during Obama's tenure. It's not something made up. It's why when I responded to your post earlier this week about the biggest failures of the Obama Presidency, I listed ISIS as #1.

Can't argue with that logic, let's not do anything to try reducing gun crime.

 

[huKSer]

Moiraine, show me where in the Second Amendment that has to do with hunting.

Speaking of the 2nd amendment:

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Why do people ignore the bolded part? It seems to me a street gang (which is what the British thought the Patriots were) is more qualified to own guns than an individual. Maybe the only people allowed to own guns must be a member of the National Guard?

I don't know what the answer could be.

 

[C N Red]

Guns will become the new illegal drugs if taken away. People can and will find them if they want them. Gun control wont stop these things from happening.

 

[Saunders]

Moiraine, show me where in the Second Amendment that has to do with hunting.

Speaking of the 2nd amendment:

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Why do people ignore the bolded part? It seems to me a street gang (which is what the British thought the Patriots were) is more qualified to own guns than an individual. Maybe the only people allowed to own guns must be a member of the National Guard?

I don't know what the answer could be.

They don't ignore it.

The following are taken from the Oxford English Dictionary, and bracket in time the writing of the 2nd amendment:
1709: "If a liberal Education has formed in us well-regulated Appetites and worthy Inclinations."
1714: "The practice of all well-regulated courts of justice in the world."
1812: "The equation of time ... is the adjustment of the difference of time as shown by a well-regulated clock and a true sun dial."
1848: "A remissness for which I am sure every well-regulated person will blame the Mayor."
1862: "It appeared to her well-regulated mind, like a clandestine proceeding."
1894: "The newspaper, a never wanting adjunct to every well-regulated American embryo city."

The phrase "well-regulated" was in common use long before 1789, and remained so for a century thereafter. It referred to the property of something being in proper working order. Something that was well-regulated was calibrated correctly, functioning as expected. Establishing government oversight of the people's arms was not only not the intent in using the phrase in the 2nd amendment, it was precisely to render the government powerless to do so that the founders wrote it.
http://www.constitution.org/cons/wellregu.htm

In keeping with the intent and purpose of the Bill of Rights both of declaring individual rights and proscribing the powers of the national government, the use and meaning of the term "Militia" in the Second Amendment, which needs to be "well regulated," helps explain what "well regulated" meant. When the Constitution was ratified, the Framers unanimously believed that the "militia" included all of the people capable of bearing arms.

http://www.lectlaw.com/files/gun01.htm

Some people mistakenly think it's a collective right (the "militia" argument), vs an individual right like all the other ones.