Gun Control

[zoogs]

It only took 1 ISIS sympathizer born in America to pullnoff the deadliest mass shooting in American History.

What do you think would happen if all the actual ISIS plants already here orchestrated an attack? I'm asking honestly because if you think it's outside the realm of possibility you'rr lying to yourself.

How are Americans having guns stopping them?

Why is the answer not making it more difficult for ISIS "plants" or perhaps, more likely, converts, to purchase guns? Why is it instead that we need the NRA to get their way with gun laws in this country, or else ISIS?

 

[knapplc]

Knapp, you recently brought up the "unicorn" as an example within a religious thread. Are you now bringing into the fold a "fairy"?

Because if you are not, good luck on getting rural america or past servicemen to agree to give up their arms, which I may add were used to protect the very rights of gun ownership along with other rights everyone seems to take for granted.

OK, those servicemen & women like their guns. I know tons of them. Just about all of them are gun aficionados. But that attitude can change, as long as people want to.

British servicemen & women carry weapons while enlisted, and gladly set them aside when their service is done. Same happens in France, Germany, Australia, Canada, Sweden, Belgium, etc etc etc. Only in America, in our culture, do we have this desire to hold onto our weapons.

I consider it the same as a painter. He goes to work every day and uses his brush to do his job. But when he's done, he puts his brush down and goes home. Same with the guy using a jackhammer, driving a forklift, mowing a lawn. They use tools, and the gun is just a tool. When it's time to stop using the tool, you set it down.

That's the attitude we need with guns here. They're just tools, and we don't need them all day, every day. That's the SIMPLE answer to the problem, but how we get there involves societal changes galore, like some of the ones saunders has discussed earlier in the thread.

 

[Landlord]

You pretty much believe anything the government says huh?

The level of faith I put in something generally correlates with the amount of data available, as well as my own personal experience. Since A) there's tons of research and study and public information that suggests the insane lack of probability involved in massive ISIS infiltration of our country, and B) i haven't really seen any terrorist attacks in our country since 9/11 with the exception of individual mass shootings, then I believe we are safe.

You, on the other hand, believe in ghosts, lay out scenarios where ISIS soldiers are going to be at my doorstep if we give up our guns, apparently think made up numbers in your head are statistics, and then espouse pretty nutty conspiratorial phrases like, "If this happening, we wouldn't even know it until it already happened."

Here's a scenario I want to throw out there. Keep in mind it's just a scenario:

What if all of the gun manufacturers were actually members of ISIS, and without us knowing it, they put tiny little explosive implants in every single gun made, and are just waiting for the right combination of good weather and a lull in the news cycle to blow them all up at the same time, killing about half of the population?

What if that's true?????

 

[Landlord]

France has some of the toughest gun laws in existence and yet we have that mass shooting over there. Banning guns won't solve the problem.

Mass shootings aren't the problem we're trying to solve. Next.

 

[knapplc]

France has some of the toughest gun laws in existence and yet we have that mass shooting over there. Banning guns won't solve the problem.

For the eleventy-seventh time, nobody thinks changing America's view on guns will "prevent" or "stop" gun violence. We're trying to curb it, not stop it.

To further the French example, in 2012 France had 0.21 gun deaths per 100,000 people. The US had 3.43 per 100,000 people. France is doing something right, yeah?

 

[Redux]

You pretty much believe anything the government says huh?

The level of faith I put in something generally correlates with the amount of data available, as well as my own personal experience. Since A) there's tons of research and study and public information that suggests the insane lack of probability involved in massive ISIS infiltration of our country, and B) i haven't really seen any terrorist attacks in our country since 9/11 with the exception of individual mass shootings, then I believe we are safe.

You, on the other hand, believe in ghosts, lay out scenarios where ISIS soldiers are going to be at my doorstep if we give up our guns, apparently think made up numbers in your head are statistics, and then espouse pretty nutty conspiratorial phrases like, "If this happening, we wouldn't even know it until it already happened."

Here's a scenario I want to throw out there. Keep in mind it's just a scenario:

What if all of the gun manufacturers were actually members of ISIS, and without us knowing it, they put tiny little explosive implants in every single gun made, and are just waiting for the right combination of good weather and a lull in the news cycle to blow them all up at the same time, killing about half of the population?

What if that's true?????

Way to keep the debate impersonal brah.

I respect your opinion and if you bothered to read all my comments here you would see I actually sympathize partly with the idea sh#t needs to change and availability is a problem.

 

[knapplc]

Here's a scenario I want to throw out there. Keep in mind it's just a scenario:

What if all of the gun manufacturers were actually members of ISIS, and without us knowing it, they put tiny little explosive implants in every single gun made, and are just waiting for the right combination of good weather and a lull in the news cycle to blow them all up at the same time, killing about half of the population?

What if that's true?????

There isn't a ghost of a chance that's true.

 

[Saunders]

Chicago bans guns unless you have a conceal carry permit. I highly doubt if 10% of the gun owners in Chicago have permits. There are gun murders their every day. 677 murders this year. So....if the guns are banned, why are they still on the streets?

What I'm pointing out is that even IF someone gets a gun law passed that bans guns, it's totally worthless legislation. It would absolutely be meaningless legislation.

I'm not completely familiar with the Chicago situation. What happened after the landmark 2010 case that overturned their prior gun restrictions, in the wake of DC v. Heller?

...which highlights the thing that really chafes at me. Cities should be able to try things more freely. But they're hamstrung by the efforts of the NRA-ILA to overturn everything.

To the latter point, I guess what I'd say is you have to reduce the number of guns. If that isn't accomplished, I don't think you can make many real gains.

For the record, it's not just the NRA doing things because they're the NRA. It's actual citizens who are objecting to these laws. DC v Heller happened because citizens wanted to be able to protect themselves, and the District of Columbia had a handgun ban for regular citizens.

 

[Redux]

It only took 1 ISIS sympathizer born in America to pullnoff the deadliest mass shooting in American History.What do you think would happen if all the actual ISIS plants already here orchestrated an attack? I'm asking honestly because if you think it's outside the realm of possibility you'rr lying to yourself.

How are Americans having guns stopping them?Why is the answer not making it more difficult for ISIS "plants" or perhaps, more likely, converts, to purchase guns? Why is it instead that we need the NRA to get their way with gun laws in this country, or else ISIS?

The answer IS to make it harder for those people to aquire guns, but your scathing stance on the issue ignored when I said that 2 pages ago. I do want better control and less availability. But you're hung up on the fact I said it would sure be nice to be able to protect myself if an invasion occured.

 

[TAKODA]

We could very easily make aquiring a purchase permit much more difficult. There have to be steps we can take that don't go to the extreme of making firearms illegal to own or purchase. I'm open to hearing them, but 9/10 people just suggest they be made illegal.

B.S.

So was your original post where you said nobody wants to take our guns and nobody has a problem with responsible citizens owning guns.

Okay obviously I shouldn't have to spell out that if I say "nobody" that doesn't actually literally mean that there isn't a single person living in our country who might hold that position. But no legislators are fighting for making guns illegal. There are no laws being drafted towards this end. There are no conversations about banning guns entirely. You either hang out with the weirdest people on the planet or you're full of sh#t with your 9/10 claim, whereas I was being slightly hyperbolic because I didn't find it necessary to spell out, "The majority of the population and also the majority of our elected officials are not at all talking about the idea of making guns illegal"

let's not be so naive to think that they can't inflict a lot of carnage with our lackadaisical border policies.

lacksadaisical huh?

if you guys want to seriously talk about the potential of ISIS doing damage on American soil, then what you need to be talking about is censoring and controlling internet access, where US citizens are being exposed/indoctrinated into ISIS sympathy. Stop talking about them loading up the active troops from the Middle East to get over here, because it just aint happening.

OK, Landlord, let me use your own words to express my thoughts, and I quote "Okay obviously I shouldn't have to spell out that if I say "nobody" that doesn't actually literally mean that there isn't a single person living in our country who might hold that position"

Yes our government body does screen to the best of their abilities, each person who "legally" attempts to enter the USA!

Got me there!

But those who come across by other means, meh, what can one person do right? (many more than one have entered the USA by other means)

Oh, and those who are sympathizers who travel abroad and return, meh, no worries, right!

The fact is, this guy "Orlando shooter" was on the radar, went abroad and was questioned not once, but three times by the FBI.

Why was he given the green light to purchase a weapon. ~ Jeopardy song playing

Once again, the gun is not the perp, the individual who wielded the gun was!

 

[Saunders]

I'm not remotely worried about ISIS. I'm worried about stuff happening in my neighborhood.

http://www.baynews9.com/content/news/baynews9/news/article.html/content/news/articles/bn9/2016/6/13/homeowner_shot_durin.html

That's a block from where I used to live, and only a couple miles from where I live now.

 

[StPaulHusker]

If we can agree that this was an act of Muslim terrorism, then we should be able to agree that the gun laws in Florida, or lack thereof, put the gun in the terrorist's hands quite easily AND legally.

 

[knapplc]

Once again, the gun is not the perp, the individual who wielded the gun was!

Stop this. The reason he used a gun is it's the most readily-accessible tool to kill mass amounts of people. It's easily transportable and easily acquired.

The gun is part of the problem. Let's stop pretending it isn't.

 

[TGHusker]

France has some of the toughest gun laws in existence and yet we have that mass shooting over there. Banning guns won't solve the problem.

For the eleventy-seventh time, nobody thinks changing America's view on guns will "prevent" or "stop" gun violence. We're trying to curb it, not stop it.

To further the French example, in 2012 France had 0.21 gun deaths per 100,000 people. The US had 3.43 per 100,000 people. France is doing something right, yeah?

I don't disagree wt you on the need for reform Knapp. I probably overstated by using the word 'ban'. I think some curbs are needed but even wt that, the bad guys will still get theirs. So, we need to work on the processes that keep the bad guys off the streets - whether they are mental/psyco or radical terrorist bad guys. Even if all guns were banned, then the bad guys will use some other method to inflict horrific carnage. And yes, as Knapp says - a gun is the easiest form of weapon to obtain and create the havoc.

So, some kind of reform is needed - I for one am not sure where to start - since I don't own automatic or a semi-auto gun - I don't see the 'usefulness' for the ave citizen. Do we limit guns to hunting rife/shot guns and certain hand guns for protection??

 

[Landlord]

The fact is, this guy "Orlando shooter" was on the radar, went abroad and was questioned not once, but three times by the FBI.

Why was he given the green light to purchase a weapon.

Once again, the gun is not the perp, the individual who wielded the gun was!

You can't be serious, right? He was able to purchase a weapon because the laws that many have been attempting to pass that would stop people like this from being able to purchase weapons, keep getting rejected by Republicans with the mindset of, "the guns aren't the problem"

Here's a scenario I want to throw out there. Keep in mind it's just a scenario:

What if all of the gun manufacturers were actually members of ISIS, and without us knowing it, they put tiny little explosive implants in every single gun made, and are just waiting for the right combination of good weather and a lull in the news cycle to blow them all up at the same time, killing about half of the population?

What if that's true?????

There isn't a ghost of a chance that's true.

Dude chill, not saying it's true. Just laying out a scenario.