Gun Violence in Schools

Landlord of Memorial Stadium said:
Wasn't trying to pigeonhole you BRB - I was just pleasantly surprised, as I would not expect someone who likely leans right and is also a police officer to be on that same page.
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No problem, my fault for misunderstanding there, I apologize for that. I get to see our mental health system from a front row seat which is where I'm speaking from. It's really sad to see, folks need help and don't get it, not that ALL of the folks that get guns and go shoot up a place necessarily suffer from a mental disorder, but you could say a large number of them do. Our training in dealing with mentally ill folks has really picked up over the years because we're the ones called to deal with those folks and are picking up the slack of the mental healthcare system. That can cause a poor outcome from time-to-time unfortunately. If they don't do something with the mental healthcare system my view is they have no choice, but to do a more intensive background screening process, but you could do both of those things and it wouldn't hurt anything IMO.

 
BIGREDIOWAN said:
Landlord of Memorial Stadium said:
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No problem, my fault for misunderstanding there, I apologize for that. I get to see our mental health system from a front row seat which is where I'm speaking from. It's really sad to see, folks need help and don't get it, not that ALL of the folks that get guns and go shoot up a place necessarily suffer from a mental disorder, but you could say a large number of them do. Our training in dealing with mentally ill folks has really picked up over the years because we're the ones called to deal with those folks and are picking up the slack of the mental healthcare system. That can cause a poor outcome from time-to-time unfortunately. If they don't do something with the mental healthcare system my view is they have no choice, but to do a more intensive background screening process, but you could do both of those things and it wouldn't hurt anything IMO.
Click to expand...
Mental illness is a 1 step forward, 2 steps back situation. The police chief for my area removed Officer training for dealing with the mentally impaired. His reasoning was there was no reason to treat them differently than any other criminal (literal wording). This is a very well-off area which makes this more sad. Additionally, there are few in-patient treatment centers remaining that are dedicated to dealing with mental illness. The biggest out here that remains is 1st a drug rehab & 2nd a mental illness facility. That sends the wrong message.

There is so much that we can do to improve mental healthcare and also (unrelated or not) address preventable cases of gun violence yet nothing is done...

 
ColoNoCoHusker said:
BIGREDIOWAN said:
Landlord of Memorial Stadium said:
...
Click to expand...
No problem, my fault for misunderstanding there, I apologize for that. I get to see our mental health system from a front row seat which is where I'm speaking from. It's really sad to see, folks need help and don't get it, not that ALL of the folks that get guns and go shoot up a place necessarily suffer from a mental disorder, but you could say a large number of them do. Our training in dealing with mentally ill folks has really picked up over the years because we're the ones called to deal with those folks and are picking up the slack of the mental healthcare system. That can cause a poor outcome from time-to-time unfortunately. If they don't do something with the mental healthcare system my view is they have no choice, but to do a more intensive background screening process, but you could do both of those things and it wouldn't hurt anything IMO.
Click to expand...
Mental illness is a 1 step forward, 2 steps back situation. The police chief for my area removed Officer training for dealing with the mentally impaired. His reasoning was there was no reason to treat them differently than any other criminal (literal wording). This is a very well-off area which makes this more sad. Additionally, there are few in-patient treatment centers remaining that are dedicated to dealing with mental illness. The biggest out here that remains is 1st a drug rehab & 2nd a mental illness facility. That sends the wrong message.

There is so much that we can do to improve mental healthcare and also (unrelated or not) address preventable cases of gun violence yet nothing is done...
Click to expand...
That is an incredibly short-sited move on that Chief's part. Apparently he/she doesn't have an administration in place that is willing/able to caution him/her in making such a bone-headed decision. I've had advanced training as a supervisor in mental health training. It's incredibly important and I've used that training more times than I can count to bring a peaceful resolution to situations. I agree it's only one part, this is a complicated topic that has many moving parts to it. Identifying each part is important and then figuring out a plan of attack on each to help the situation is the first step to helping with this situation.

 
BIGREDIOWAN said:
ColoNoCoHusker said:
BIGREDIOWAN said:
Landlord of Memorial Stadium said:
...
Click to expand...
No problem, my fault for misunderstanding there, I apologize for that. I get to see our mental health system from a front row seat which is where I'm speaking from. It's really sad to see, folks need help and don't get it, not that ALL of the folks that get guns and go shoot up a place necessarily suffer from a mental disorder, but you could say a large number of them do. Our training in dealing with mentally ill folks has really picked up over the years because we're the ones called to deal with those folks and are picking up the slack of the mental healthcare system. That can cause a poor outcome from time-to-time unfortunately. If they don't do something with the mental healthcare system my view is they have no choice, but to do a more intensive background screening process, but you could do both of those things and it wouldn't hurt anything IMO.
Click to expand...
Mental illness is a 1 step forward, 2 steps back situation. The police chief for my area removed Officer training for dealing with the mentally impaired. His reasoning was there was no reason to treat them differently than any other criminal (literal wording). This is a very well-off area which makes this more sad. Additionally, there are few in-patient treatment centers remaining that are dedicated to dealing with mental illness. The biggest out here that remains is 1st a drug rehab & 2nd a mental illness facility. That sends the wrong message.

There is so much that we can do to improve mental healthcare and also (unrelated or not) address preventable cases of gun violence yet nothing is done...
Click to expand...
That is an incredibly short-sited move on that Chief's part. Apparently he/she doesn't have an administration in place that is willing/able to caution him/her in making such a bone-headed decision. I've had advanced training as a supervisor in mental health training. It's incredibly important and I've used that training more times than I can count to bring a peaceful resolution to situations. I agree it's only one part, this is a complicated topic that has many moving parts to it. Identifying each part is important and then figuring out a plan of attack on each to help the situation is the first step to helping with this situation.
Click to expand...
The Commanders, Lt's, & Sgt's unanimously advised against it & fought it internally. I hate to say it, but the guy has some very bigoted notions and is OK putting his people in harm's way in this situation. In neighborhood watch meetings, this police chief explicitly advises block captains to use racial profiling as a primary measure for when to call-in suspicious activity. He is very politically savvy and well-spoken so he is able traction within the community on a lot of bad decisions... How this guy decreased domestic violence incidents is astoundingly unethical... Anywhoo

 
ColoNoCoHusker said:
BIGREDIOWAN said:
ColoNoCoHusker said:
BIGREDIOWAN said:
Landlord of Memorial Stadium said:
...
Click to expand...
No problem, my fault for misunderstanding there, I apologize for that. I get to see our mental health system from a front row seat which is where I'm speaking from. It's really sad to see, folks need help and don't get it, not that ALL of the folks that get guns and go shoot up a place necessarily suffer from a mental disorder, but you could say a large number of them do. Our training in dealing with mentally ill folks has really picked up over the years because we're the ones called to deal with those folks and are picking up the slack of the mental healthcare system. That can cause a poor outcome from time-to-time unfortunately. If they don't do something with the mental healthcare system my view is they have no choice, but to do a more intensive background screening process, but you could do both of those things and it wouldn't hurt anything IMO.
Click to expand...
Mental illness is a 1 step forward, 2 steps back situation. The police chief for my area removed Officer training for dealing with the mentally impaired. His reasoning was there was no reason to treat them differently than any other criminal (literal wording). This is a very well-off area which makes this more sad. Additionally, there are few in-patient treatment centers remaining that are dedicated to dealing with mental illness. The biggest out here that remains is 1st a drug rehab & 2nd a mental illness facility. That sends the wrong message.

There is so much that we can do to improve mental healthcare and also (unrelated or not) address preventable cases of gun violence yet nothing is done...
Click to expand...
That is an incredibly short-sited move on that Chief's part. Apparently he/she doesn't have an administration in place that is willing/able to caution him/her in making such a bone-headed decision. I've had advanced training as a supervisor in mental health training. It's incredibly important and I've used that training more times than I can count to bring a peaceful resolution to situations. I agree it's only one part, this is a complicated topic that has many moving parts to it. Identifying each part is important and then figuring out a plan of attack on each to help the situation is the first step to helping with this situation.
Click to expand...
The Commanders, Lt's, & Sgt's unanimously advised against it & fought it internally. I hate to say it, but the guy has some very bigoted notions and is OK putting his people in harm's way in this situation. In neighborhood watch meetings, this police chief explicitly advises block captains to use racial profiling as a primary measure for when to call-in suspicious activity. He is very politically savvy and well-spoken so he is able traction within the community on a lot of bad decisions... How this guy decreased domestic violence incidents is astoundingly unethical... Anywhoo
Click to expand...
They have "No confidence" votes for a reason, might be time for the department to make that move! Sheesh

 
Thanks_Tom RR

Thanks_Tom RR

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Delete · Lock 20 Jan
knapplcObama is officially out of office. Everyone still got their guns?

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20 Jan Delete
TAKODABig black SUV pulled up this morning in front of my house. I went out to see who they were and noticed they had my grandchilds orange plastic squirt gun in a lock box. So, were missing 1. ��




20 Jan Delete
TAKODA^ I jest! Relax all.
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20 Jan Delete
dudeguyyAccording to an article I read on LibNews.net, I actually heard he's implementing the martial law as soon as he touches down back in Kenya. He'll be ruling by proxy from there. The Trump thing is just an elaborate ruse.

I believe they'll be starting the gun repo movement right after Trump's taxes are released.




20 Jan Delete
Thanks_Tom RRThe real question is how many of you have more guns now than before Obama got into office? Or how many got your first gun in the last 8 yrs?

NRA, FOX, Rep, and several special interest groups really have sold a lie to the American public.




20 Jan Delete
Thanks_Tom RRLook at the frequency of public, mass shootings (especially in our schools) over the past 30 yrs (or the past 15 yrs or past 5 yrs) compared to any other time in our nations history. We need gun reform. Not to take guns away from our citizens, but to limit the accessibility of guns to killers of our children.

If you have a gun for home protection, sport, or as a collection, you should have as many guns as you like. If you plan to do harm with that gun, you should not have one. Refo...




20 Jan Delete
The DudeThe amount of guns I have typically increases every time I receive a tax return.




20 Jan Delete
BIGREDIOWANI like The Dude's plan.....lol




20 Jan Delete
Thanks_Tom RRI am not worried about people like The Dude or BRI having guns. I use guns for hunting and recreation. Many of my neighbors, co-workers, friends, and family members have guns. If you look at the mass shooting frequency in our nation the last 30 yrs, there has been a fundamental shift in how guns are being used to perpetrate demented acts. Reform should happen to restrict has to those that intend to do harm to your families and mine.




20 Jan Delete
Thanks_Tom RRIt is not unconstitutional to say, "if you plan to kill someone with a gun, you should not have access to one".




20 Jan Delete
knapplcI really like guns. Never shot a handgun. Would really like to, though.




20 Jan Delete
MLB 51I shot my hand gun right after he was sworn in. It was quite fun.




20 Jan Delete
Thanks_Tom RRSure, MLB. Anyway, everyone has their guns, right?! So, you were lied to about Obama and Dems taking them. Now, can we get down to business of making our children safe?




20 Jan Delete
BIGREDIOWANThere are obviously several different opinions on how to go about making them safer Tom, but I'm all for making our children safer.
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20 Jan Delete
Thanks_Tom RRI know you do, BRI. I believe you completely. However, this is political rhetoric, or as Trump says "just words". Not trying to put anything on you, BRI. You just happen to be the one who responded.

Sincerely, look at the school shooting numbers per year. Not until the 90's never more than 5, not until the 2000's never more than 10, and now, we have 15 to nearly 50 annually.




20 Jan Delete
Thanks_Tom RRThink about those numbers and the historical shift we are seeing in gun use in our society. We do not live in the same times that we did 30 years ago or even 15 years ago. Gun laws need to change to deal with the changes in our society.




21 Jan Delete
funhuskerI have thought about to converting to Islam....The Mosque seemed more welcoming than my Church...




21 Jan Delete
Thanks_Tom RRfunhusker, your comment means nothing to this conversation. I would appreciate you not derailing it.




21 Jan Delete
Savage HuskerIt's funny to joke around about it, but to act like that's not an agenda for far left liberals is naive.




21 Jan Delete
Thanks_Tom RRJoke around about what? We have a responsibility as citizens and our politicians have a responsibility as our representatives to safeguard our country. There is a clear shift in the perpetuation of gun violence in our society over the last 30 years. It should be our goal to reverse that deathly trend. Keep guns in civilians' hands of course, but do not turn a blind eye to reality and the need for reform.




21 Jan Delete
HuskermanMikeInteresting stuff Thanks Tom, what my question to you is this, take away bad peoples guns but they still get them? Put all the laws you want on them, ppl still find ways to get a hold of them. How would you respond to that?




21 Jan Delete
Savage HuskerThe OP, Tom. The comment was to poke fun at or it was to troll gun rights enthusiasts. My point is outside of articles, social media, my childhood friends and college buddies who want guns to be outlawed entirely.




21 Jan Delete
dudeguyyThe problems are twofold:

1) The NRA is one of the most powerful lobbies in Washington.

2) People have been conditioned to reflexively screech anytime the subject of gun control is brought up.

I wish there was more room for nuance in this conversation. But it's almost always had in absolutes.




21 Jan Delete
JJHusker1I had to hock mine to help pay my healthcare bills and taxes.




21 Jan Delete
Thanks_Tom RR@HuskermanMike, what kind of current laws are 100% deterrents right now? Are you asking for a repeal on all laws that are not 100% enforceable? No, those are not realistic expectations.

What we should be asking is why have school shootings gone up? My concern is that the culture around gun violence has significantly changed over the last 3 decades, but no reform has happened to keep guns out of the hands of violent actors.




21 Jan Delete
man eating mastodonTTRR as of now it's sadly impossible to do that.way to many guns on the streets




21 Jan Delete
Thanks_Tom RRMany of the guns used in school shootings come from home. Thus, the onus of restricting access to guns for minors (particularly those that have behavioral problems or mental health issues) is on the gun owner/guardian. Laws could require proper storage to restrict access. Laws could also require gun owners to take more safety training, which could highlight the risks of making guns accessible to at-risk minors. You do not have to go door-to-door to make sure these things are being done.




21 Jan Delete
Thanks_Tom RRSometimes, education is a powerful tool to prevent a crisis. Also, this would create more liability on the gun owner if a minor uses it to commit a violent act.




21 Jan Delete
Thanks_Tom RRAlso, reform is not limited to gun laws. We need more money and support to help children with behavioral problems and mental health issue, especially when they pose a risk to themselves or others.




21 Jan Delete
man eating mastodonWell said.one would think that with gun violence being what it has been the last 15 years we would have a better system




21 Jan Delete
ColoNoCoHuskerFor some reason, it's easier for everyone to blame the family/community/local schools/etc than to actually do anything to identify/treat the root cause... Sad




21 Jan Delete
Thanks_Tom RRColoNoCoHusker, what is the root cause in your opinion?




21 Jan Delete
Thanks_Tom RRIf you are going to say the children that perpetrate the violent acts, I would not disagree with you. However, I would ask if those children are rather the source of such violence but the cause of the behavior is (1) underlying behavioral problems or mental health issues which go undetected or untreated due to an under-funded and under-supported system, (2) insufficient gun laws to limit access to such people, and (3) misdirected narratives driven by special interest for profit or power.



 
I posted in the comments while you were creating the thread...

I more or less agree with your last comment TTRR and I wish I had a better answer overall. I think mental illness is poorly treated/accepted/identified in this country and is way behind physical medicine.

Beyond that, I think it is a complex intersection of issues. Anyone that tries to dig deeper gets caught in a political fog. At a minimum there are sociological, psychological, physiological, and technological components. I think it is to our society's everlasting discredit that we do not expend more effort to actually remedy these types of situations.

I have two neighbors that were staff at Columbine when that situation occurred. When I speak with them, I realize how little we have progressed since then. From the outside looking in, there is a stigma attached to many of the faculty/staff victims and community that is unwarranted. Thus my comments about blaming the local area rather than recognize this is a systemic and at least national issue...

 
While not a school shooting, the Aurora theater shooting involving the CU student is an interesting case. This person confided in psych staff/counselors with CU Medical School about some of his demented thoughts. He was kicked out of school and was identified as a direct threat to himself & the community. The school failed to properly warn authorities as was their legal obligation. Yet somehow, CU has escaped accountability while the theater has undergone numerous lawsuits. How CU Medical staff have not lost their license and CU Medical School has not been found criminally negligent is beyond me...

 
You'll never stop all crime, and that's never the goal. The goal is to make it as difficult as possible to commit crimes while also ensuring people's freedom.

To this end, there is much we can be doing to do better. We must do better. We have to.

 
Didn't some of the worst "gun crimes " in our Nation's history come under Obama?

Doesn't his alleged home city have one of the highest murder rates?

Yeah.....

 
My personal opinion on this matter falls somewhere along the line of what Colo mentioned above. I think we need to take a long hard look at mental health care in this country to start with. It's really in a sad state of affairs and needs to be addressed. I'm not for taking guns away, but I don't think anyone really thinks that is THE answer to this problem. I am for more/deeper background checks with weapons and think it's something that needs to be re-occuring say annually or semi-annually in reference to ownership of weapons. The thing you still have to be careful of is access to weapons by mentally unstable folks. So is it something where if there is a mentally unstable person living in your household you aren't allowed to own guns because of that? I'm not sure what the answer is here, it's so complex and so large it's hard to figure out which angle to take and which angle is the right one. I suppose any angle will start chipping away at the problem though. Of course you run into "infringing on people's rights" possibly as well.

 
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