"Guys like myself, that's what we flock to."

[BigRedBuster]

Langs has already seen the issues and has moved to quickly fix them. Namely the "option" routes. After watching TA for 2 years, he and the receivers have shown the inability to be on the same page. Langs, IIRC, is stopping this. Definitive routes that the receivers will run and TA will know. IIRC, he is also limiting the route trees or progressions that TA has to go through. Great. TA looks right and then throws right.

If Langs can simply have TA do the following, we will see improvement. Maybe not in completions, but TO's...

a) Look left and then throw right

b) Look the safety off

c) Implement more PA to get the safety or CB to bite and get single coverage at a minimum

d) The rarely used pump fake to again get the DB's to bite

e) Lean heavily on the hot read or RB out of the back field ala Marlon Lucky

There is so much game film on TA, DB's lick their chops to get to play a QB whose eyes you can really read. Langs changes that, TA improves. All of these did not involve new techniques, plays or terminology. Its simply having TA scan the field or look off a DB with his eyes....

With a dedicated staff that knows how to fix things (see KB's comments on Williams) we will be better technique wise than we have been in years.

You know....something just dawned on me.

If TA knows the WR has multiple routes he can run and he knows he has had trouble reading the defense the same as the WR so they are on the same page, I can understand him having a hard time not staring down a WR while he is running the route. I can see in his mind thinking..."Hey, I need to see what he is going to run". Now, if the WRs have set routes and he knows if he calls a certain play, the WRs are going to be in certain spots, it can be easier for him to look right and know the WR is going to be in a certain spot when he looks back left.

I have said all along that I believe these set WR routes are going to be a big factor in improvement, I'm starting to get even more excited to see how it all works out.

I don't know, were we running that many actual option routes, or was it more of the "safety is 15 yards deep, so cut your route short to 12 yards" kind of stuff?

The way I understand it, the WR would read how the defense is set up and he was supposed to choose which route he was to run. The QB was supposed to read the same thing. Now, if there are 3-4 WRs on the field, that's at least 6-8 different routes that can be ran on any given play.

 

[Red Five]

I think a lot of the spread teams run the "option routes" as a basic principle of their offense.

I remember one of the NFL draftnik knocks about RG3 when he was coming out of Baylor was that he was "late" on his throws (throwing after the receiver had already made his break). This was because Baylor uses these "option routes", so he would wait for the receiver to break and make sure they were on the same page before throwing the ball.

If only we had a board member who was a football coach and could explain all of this to us...

 

[The Dude]

During the bowl game (and in desperation mode against MSU) I think we glimpses of the offense Beck wanted to run - not too dissimilar to what Kansas ran while Beck was there.

I think the times the offense floundered had as much to do with Bo holding him back than anything. Pelini had a tendency to do that.

I don't think we'll have that problem with this coaching staff. Riley & Langsdorf have worked together before in the same capacity, they're going to be on the same page.

 

[Scratchtown]

Mavric, you must not be familiar with the new Huskerboard. Beck was a dumb-dumb and everything about the staff is superior and will thus fix our problems.


TA is a returning member of the team and thus we are required to be optimistic, even though we're familiar with his play and ability to play QB. In no way was his decision making his fault, it was all on Beck (dang him!) and his inherent limitations as a QB will soon be fixed by one off season.

Agreed. We just lucked into all those points, in spite of Beck. I figure, since the morons on the last staff could get us to the #13 scoring offense, these new guys who know what they are doing should get us top 5 without any trouble.

Yea. They should because the big 10 west has horrible (traditionally) teams in it besides Wiscy. Nebraska should be ahead of the likes of Purdue and Illinois by 50 at halftime.

Nebraska SHOULD be able to score on MSU without having MSU laugh in our face and let up.

Nebraska SHOULD never give up 56 unanswered points to a team who's defense is WAYYYY over rated.

In games that matter, Nebraska's offense is awful, with the exception of USC. That was when Bo was finally gone. I don't believe that it was all Beck's fault. I truly believe that any detriment that happened at NU was solely because Bo has too tight of a grip on the program. He's a micromanager.

 

[True2tRA]

Langs has already seen the issues and has moved to quickly fix them. Namely the "option" routes. After watching TA for 2 years, he and the receivers have shown the inability to be on the same page. Langs, IIRC, is stopping this. Definitive routes that the receivers will run and TA will know. IIRC, he is also limiting the route trees or progressions that TA has to go through. Great. TA looks right and then throws right.

If Langs can simply have TA do the following, we will see improvement. Maybe not in completions, but TO's...

a) Look left and then throw right

b) Look the safety off

c) Implement more PA to get the safety or CB to bite and get single coverage at a minimum

d) The rarely used pump fake to again get the DB's to bite

e) Lean heavily on the hot read or RB out of the back field ala Marlon Lucky

There is so much game film on TA, DB's lick their chops to get to play a QB whose eyes you can really read. Langs changes that, TA improves. All of these did not involve new techniques, plays or terminology. Its simply having TA scan the field or look off a DB with his eyes....

With a dedicated staff that knows how to fix things (see KB's comments on Williams) we will be better technique wise than we have been in years.

You know....something just dawned on me.

If TA knows the WR has multiple routes he can run and he knows he has had trouble reading the defense the same as the WR so they are on the same page, I can understand him having a hard time not staring down a WR while he is running the route. I can see in his mind thinking..."Hey, I need to see what he is going to run". Now, if the WRs have set routes and he knows if he calls a certain play, the WRs are going to be in certain spots, it can be easier for him to look right and know the WR is going to be in a certain spot when he looks back left.

I have said all along that I believe these set WR routes are going to be a big factor in improvement, I'm starting to get even more excited to see how it all works out.

I have said this before and you're exactly right. It was an extremely difficult way of doing things and once we quit doing it that way, things will improve immediately. I think we will see it this year, at least I hope so.

 

[Mavric]

The reason that we almost always had someone going deep was to simplify the reads for the QBs.

You sure we watched the same team?

Often times, no, I don't think so.

TA almost always choose the right side. The reason you play one side of the field or the other is it limits the reads the QB has to do and helps him see the coverage better as he only has to figure one side out. If you are only going to use half the field, you're pretty much always going to have a deep route, and intermediate route and a short route.

I like the concept, but this wasn't usually the case in Beck's offense.

Well, I mean, Beck specifically said that's how it works. TA never checks to the other side of the field and I don't remember Martinez doing it very often. So I don't know how you can argue against that.

It doesn't make a lot of sense to have a bunch of receivers all running short routes. You run one guy deep to clear the zone and keep the safeties back. Then you run your route combination short.

You can't clog up the same space, (which we still did quite often due to poor execution or poor communication) but that's not really what I was talking about. I was talking about 40 yard plus bombs and having receivers going for the home run every play. I don't think you're talking about the same thing.

That's how you run a guy deep. I don't know what your other option is, stop at 30 yards and stand there? It doesn't take guys that long to run 40 yards. Doesn't mean you have to throw to them. The farther downfield, the more area the defense has to cover.

Often despite having uncovered receivers short.

Balogne. Maybe he missed an open guy here or there, but we didn't OFTEN have uncovered WR's short, and Tommy didn't OFTEN overlook them to launch a deep ball. Good Lord.

Ahhh. The beloved semantic game. How often is often? How much is "here or there"? He passed on OPEN short receivers several times per game. That's "often" to me. How many times were they totally uncovered? Not as much but still too frequently for having a potential Heisman Trophy canidate with no one close to him.

or always wanting to throw it deep.

I don't know, maybe we should ask him sometime. Tommy do you always want to throw it deep? I'm betting he'd rather just throw completions to an open WR.

I don't have to ask him. I can tell by where he looks and where he throws the ball.

One time he threw to Westerkamp (I think) even though Westy had gotten pushed five yards out of bounds. But he was trying to run the deep route and that's where TA wanted to go with the ball.

One time I saw Tom Brady and Peyton Manning do some dumb stuff. And this one time at band camp....................sh#t happens.....

It does. It was one example. But I'd like to see any other example of any other QB throwing to a receiver that was five yards out of bounds. Even in high school.

 

[BigRedBuster]

One time he threw to Westerkamp (I think) even though Westy had gotten pushed five yards out of bounds. But he was trying to run the deep route and that's where TA wanted to go with the ball.

One time I saw Tom Brady and Peyton Manning do some dumb stuff. And this one time at band camp....................sh#t happens.....

It does. It was one example. But I'd like to see any other example of any other QB throwing to a receiver that was five yards out of bounds. Even in high school.

I've seen it many many times. Sorry if I don't have specific examples. I guess I didn't realize it was such a rarity that I needed to document it for future debates.

Typically there then is a discussion as to if the WR was pushed out of bounds by the DB or if he ran out on his own.

 

[Mavric]

One time he threw to Westerkamp (I think) even though Westy had gotten pushed five yards out of bounds. But he was trying to run the deep route and that's where TA wanted to go with the ball.

One time I saw Tom Brady and Peyton Manning do some dumb stuff. And this one time at band camp....................sh#t happens.....

It does. It was one example. But I'd like to see any other example of any other QB throwing to a receiver that was five yards out of bounds. Even in high school.

I've seen it many many times. Sorry if I don't have specific examples. I guess I didn't realize it was such a rarity that I needed to document it for future debates.

Typically there then is a discussion as to if the WR was pushed out of bounds by the DB or if he ran out on his own.

Throw to a guy who is out of bounds when the ball gets there? Yes. Throw to a guy who is already well out of bounds before you throw it? Not so much.

 

[BigRedBuster]

One time he threw to Westerkamp (I think) even though Westy had gotten pushed five yards out of bounds. But he was trying to run the deep route and that's where TA wanted to go with the ball.

One time I saw Tom Brady and Peyton Manning do some dumb stuff. And this one time at band camp....................sh#t happens.....

It does. It was one example. But I'd like to see any other example of any other QB throwing to a receiver that was five yards out of bounds. Even in high school.

I've seen it many many times. Sorry if I don't have specific examples. I guess I didn't realize it was such a rarity that I needed to document it for future debates.

Typically there then is a discussion as to if the WR was pushed out of bounds by the DB or if he ran out on his own.

Throw to a guy who is out of bounds when the ball gets there? Yes. Throw to a guy who is already well out of bounds before you throw it? Not so much.

Ummm....yes, I have seen NFL QBs do it. The WR is battling with the DB. They get tangled up. The WR runs out of bounds and the QB lets it fly. (yes, after he was out of bounds) The ref throws his hat indicating the WR was out of bounds and the discussion starts as to if he was pushed or not.

It's really not that big of a deal and a situation that can happen to any WR QB combo.

 

[Mavric]

One time he threw to Westerkamp (I think) even though Westy had gotten pushed five yards out of bounds. But he was trying to run the deep route and that's where TA wanted to go with the ball.

One time I saw Tom Brady and Peyton Manning do some dumb stuff. And this one time at band camp....................sh#t happens.....

It does. It was one example. But I'd like to see any other example of any other QB throwing to a receiver that was five yards out of bounds. Even in high school.

I've seen it many many times. Sorry if I don't have specific examples. I guess I didn't realize it was such a rarity that I needed to document it for future debates.

Typically there then is a discussion as to if the WR was pushed out of bounds by the DB or if he ran out on his own.

Throw to a guy who is out of bounds when the ball gets there? Yes. Throw to a guy who is already well out of bounds before you throw it? Not so much.

Ummm....yes, I have seen NFL QBs do it. The WR is battling with the DB. They get tangled up. The WR runs out of bounds and the QB lets it fly. (yes, after he was out of bounds) The ref throws his hat indicating the WR was out of bounds and the discussion starts as to if he was pushed or not.

It's really not that big of a deal and a situation that can happen to any WR QB combo.

I don't think you know how far out of bounds Westy was on that play. But that's fine. As I said, it's just an example to illustrate the point. He was never open from the snap of the ball. The defender was in press coverage and ran him out of bounds. Not only was he not open, the defender was in constant contact and they were out of bounds. There was zero reason to throw the ball there. Other than he decided before the snap to throw it there.

 

[Saunders]

It does. It was one example. But I'd like to see any other example of any other QB throwing to a receiver that was five yards out of bounds. Even in high school.

Ahem.

 

[BigRedBuster]

One time he threw to Westerkamp (I think) even though Westy had gotten pushed five yards out of bounds. But he was trying to run the deep route and that's where TA wanted to go with the ball.

One time I saw Tom Brady and Peyton Manning do some dumb stuff. And this one time at band camp....................sh#t happens.....

It does. It was one example. But I'd like to see any other example of any other QB throwing to a receiver that was five yards out of bounds. Even in high school.

I've seen it many many times. Sorry if I don't have specific examples. I guess I didn't realize it was such a rarity that I needed to document it for future debates.

Typically there then is a discussion as to if the WR was pushed out of bounds by the DB or if he ran out on his own.

Throw to a guy who is out of bounds when the ball gets there? Yes. Throw to a guy who is already well out of bounds before you throw it? Not so much.

Ummm....yes, I have seen NFL QBs do it. The WR is battling with the DB. They get tangled up. The WR runs out of bounds and the QB lets it fly. (yes, after he was out of bounds) The ref throws his hat indicating the WR was out of bounds and the discussion starts as to if he was pushed or not.

It's really not that big of a deal and a situation that can happen to any WR QB combo.

I don't think you know how far out of bounds Westy was on that play. But that's fine. As I said, it's just an example to illustrate the point. He was never open from the snap of the ball. The defender was in press coverage and ran him out of bounds. Not only was he not open, the defender was in constant contact and they were out of bounds. There was zero reason to throw the ball there. Other than he decided before the snap to throw it there.

That's fine. But, to claim good QBs don't occasionally throw to a WR that is out of bounds is not a really good arguing point.

 

[True2tRA]

One time he threw to Westerkamp (I think) even though Westy had gotten pushed five yards out of bounds. But he was trying to run the deep route and that's where TA wanted to go with the ball.

One time I saw Tom Brady and Peyton Manning do some dumb stuff. And this one time at band camp....................sh#t happens.....

It does. It was one example. But I'd like to see any other example of any other QB throwing to a receiver that was five yards out of bounds. Even in high school.

I've seen it many many times. Sorry if I don't have specific examples. I guess I didn't realize it was such a rarity that I needed to document it for future debates.

Typically there then is a discussion as to if the WR was pushed out of bounds by the DB or if he ran out on his own.

Throw to a guy who is out of bounds when the ball gets there? Yes. Throw to a guy who is already well out of bounds before you throw it? Not so much.

I mentioned this above, but it is possible he was throwing it away isn't it? Or have you ruled that out? I've seen it done before, Tommy isn't the only guy to ever throw the ball to a WR that was out of bounds. Trying to find video of that may be tough because it's generally not a "highlight" that makes the tape, but I'll see when I've got time.

I did find this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bu1BA9u2LKo

I guess I'd rather have Tommy throw it out of bounds than throw it back inbounds like this Fawkeye.

 

[True2tRA]

Of course, Tommy will throw a pick on one of those deep sideline routes and next you'll b!^@h "WTF was he doing, he should have thrown it out of bounds!", so there's pretty much no winning for the kid with you. You can look back through your post history Mavric, you've never been a fan of Tommy Armstrong and that's fine, but your QB evaluation skills need to be taken with a huge grain of salt considering you're the guy who told me Johnny Stanton would be overtaking Tommy for the starting job at some point last year.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ytCEuuW2_A

 

[Mavric]

Of course, Tommy will throw a pick on one of those deep sideline routes and next you'll b!^@h "WTF was he doing, he should have thrown it out of bounds!", so there's pretty much no winning for the kid with you. You can look back through your post history Mavric, you've never been a fan of Tommy Armstrong and that's fine, but your QB evaluation skills need to be taken with a huge grain of salt considering you're the guy who told me Johnny Stanton would be overtaking Tommy for the starting job at some point last year.

Yep. Keep trying to salvage that.

I've already said my reason for saying Stanton would be the starter was because I didn't think TA would get it done and Stanton seemed - at the time - to be the most likely guy to get the next shot. So I was right in saying that TA wasn't going to get better in Year 2, despite all the excuses that you (and others) tried to make for him in year one. I was wrong that the next guy would be better. That's not failing to evaluate Stanton - we had basically nothing to evaluate him on. So far I've been exactly right on my evaluation of TA.