*** HB Misc Topic bullsh#t Thread ***

[NUance]

grammar nerds, i need some help understanding something. i have a problem with neither/nor. take this statement: 'i can neither confirm nor deny'. would it not make sense to just say 'i can neither confirm *or* deny'? because confirm and deny are the two things of which neither can be done. when you say 'neither' you are saying neither of these two things; do not do this or that. to me it just seems like when you say neither/nor the 'nor' is unnecessary or redundant (it has a double negative kind of feel) and 'or' works perfectly fine coupling the two thing of which the 'neither' is relating to.

'nor' is a weird word to me and seems unnecessary.

thoughts? i know i did not explain this too well, but this bothers me.

"Nor" might be more helpful in spoken communication than for writing.

"I can neither confirm or deny" sounds a lot like "I can either confirm or deny." But the "nor" makes it unambiguous: "I can neither confirm nor deny."

btw, When I write something like this I use "or" with a "not" out front: "I do not confirm or deny." /just personal preference.

/ And, congratulations Gunner sd'sker!

 

[GSG]

I just plead the 5th

 

[Count 'Bility]

grammar nerds, i need some help understanding something. i have a problem with neither/nor. take this statement: 'i can neither confirm nor deny'. would it not make sense to just say 'i can neither confirm *or* deny'? because confirm and deny are the two things of which neither can be done. when you say 'neither' you are saying neither of these two things; do not do this or that. to me it just seems like when you say neither/nor the 'nor' is unnecessary or redundant (it has a double negative kind of feel) and 'or' works perfectly fine coupling the two thing of which the 'neither' is relating to.

'nor' is a weird word to me and seems unnecessary.

thoughts? i know i did not explain this too well, but this bothers me.

 

[sd'sker]

"Nor" might be more helpful in spoken communication than for writing.

"I can neither confirm or deny" sounds a lot like "I can either confirm or deny." But the "nor" makes it unambiguous: "I can neither confirm nor deny."

btw, When I write something like this I use "or" with a "not" out front: "I do not confirm or deny." /just personal preference.

/ And, congratulations Gunner sd'sker!

'nor' just seems like fancy talk and an example of hypercorrection.

also, thank you.

account, great .gifs.

 

[GSG]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNmMeYMZS90

 

[knapplc]

grammar nerds, i need some help understanding something. i have a problem with neither/nor. take this statement: 'i can neither confirm nor deny'. would it not make sense to just say 'i can neither confirm *or* deny'? because confirm and deny are the two things of which neither can be done. when you say 'neither' you are saying neither of these two things; do not do this or that. to me it just seems like when you say neither/nor the 'nor' is unnecessary or redundant (it has a double negative kind of feel) and 'or' works perfectly fine coupling the two thing of which the 'neither' is relating to.

'nor' is a weird word to me and seems unnecessary.

thoughts? i know i did not explain this too well, but this bothers me.

Neither is always paired with nor because both are "negative" in reference. You use neither/nor when you're saying you don't like either option. I choose neither this nor that.

You cannot say I choose neither this OR that because either/or is a "positive" or "affirmative" reference, and mixing the two is grammatically incorrect.

Using neither/nor does not make a double negative, unless you pair the phrase with another negative, like I don't choose neither this nor that. That's a double negative and, of course, grammatically incorrect.

 

[RedRedJarvisRedwine]

grammar nerds, i need some help understanding something. i have a problem with neither/nor. take this statement: 'i can neither confirm nor deny'. would it not make sense to just say 'i can neither confirm *or* deny'? because confirm and deny are the two things of which neither can be done. when you say 'neither' you are saying neither of these two things; do not do this or that. to me it just seems like when you say neither/nor the 'nor' is unnecessary or redundant (it has a double negative kind of feel) and 'or' works perfectly fine coupling the two thing of which the 'neither' is relating to.

'nor' is a weird word to me and seems unnecessary.

thoughts? i know i did not explain this too well, but this bothers me.

Neither is always paired with nor because both are "negative" in reference. You use neither/nor when you're saying you don't like either option. I choose neither this nor that.

You cannot say I choose neither this OR that because either/or is a "positive" or "affirmative" reference, and mixing the two is grammatically incorrect.

Using neither/nor does not make a double negative, unless you pair the phrase with another negative, like I don't choose neither this nor that. That's a double negative and, of course, grammatically incorrect.

And BOOM GOES THE DYNAMITE!

 

[sd'sker]

grammar nerds, i need some help understanding something. i have a problem with neither/nor. take this statement: 'i can neither confirm nor deny'. would it not make sense to just say 'i can neither confirm *or* deny'? because confirm and deny are the two things of which neither can be done. when you say 'neither' you are saying neither of these two things; do not do this or that. to me it just seems like when you say neither/nor the 'nor' is unnecessary or redundant (it has a double negative kind of feel) and 'or' works perfectly fine coupling the two thing of which the 'neither' is relating to.

'nor' is a weird word to me and seems unnecessary.

thoughts? i know i did not explain this too well, but this bothers me.

Neither is always paired with nor because both are "negative" in reference. You use neither/nor when you're saying you don't like either option. I choose neither this nor that.

You cannot say I choose neither this OR that because either/or is a "positive" or "affirmative" reference, and mixing the two is grammatically incorrect.

Using neither/nor does not make a double negative, unless you pair the phrase with another negative, like I don't choose neither this nor that. That's a double negative and, of course, grammatically incorrect.

but if you say neither, you are implying a negative to both things that follow. so you are saying neither this or that, no to both. or couples the do together, both of which 'neither' is referring to. once you say neither, there will necessarily be two things, both of which 'neither' applies. so, i can eat neither peanuts or shellfish = i can not eat peanuts and shellfish. or you could say, 'i can not eat either peanuts or shellfish'. which is using the affirmative as a negative.

you did help clear this up, but i just do not see why neither/or is wrong. i do not see how 'or' is a positive or affirmative, it is just used to couple to words.

basically i just hate the english language.

 

[Count 'Bility]

I suggest sd'sker put all of this stressful thought towards something productive.

 

[knapplc]

grammar nerds, i need some help understanding something. i have a problem with neither/nor. take this statement: 'i can neither confirm nor deny'. would it not make sense to just say 'i can neither confirm *or* deny'? because confirm and deny are the two things of which neither can be done. when you say 'neither' you are saying neither of these two things; do not do this or that. to me it just seems like when you say neither/nor the 'nor' is unnecessary or redundant (it has a double negative kind of feel) and 'or' works perfectly fine coupling the two thing of which the 'neither' is relating to.

'nor' is a weird word to me and seems unnecessary.

thoughts? i know i did not explain this too well, but this bothers me.

Neither is always paired with nor because both are "negative" in reference. You use neither/nor when you're saying you don't like either option. I choose neither this nor that.

You cannot say I choose neither this OR that because either/or is a "positive" or "affirmative" reference, and mixing the two is grammatically incorrect.

Using neither/nor does not make a double negative, unless you pair the phrase with another negative, like I don't choose neither this nor that. That's a double negative and, of course, grammatically incorrect.

but if you say neither, you are implying a negative to both things that follow. so you are saying neither this or that, no to both. or couples the do together, both of which 'neither' is referring to. once you say neither, there will necessarily be two things, both of which 'neither' applies. so, i can eat neither peanuts or shellfish = i can not eat peanuts and shellfish. or you could say, 'i can not eat either peanuts or shellfish'. which is using the affirmative as a negative.

you did help clear this up, but i just do not see why neither/or is wrong. i do not see how 'or' is a positive or affirmative, it is just used to couple to words.

basically i just hate the english language.

In this situation or/nor acts as the fulcrum between the two choices. You can't say, "I want neither fish, chicken," because it sounds stupid. You need that fulcrum word to differentiate between the two choices. Then you get back to the affirmative/negative discussion, and you have your pairings. There is no double-negative because the either/or neither/nor is basically a phrase, just split in parts.

This is not something we usually find in English so it seems strange to us, but it happens in French quite often, such as, "Je ne parle pas Francais," (I don't speak French) my favorite French saying. In this French sentence, ne pas is the adverb to the verb parle, but the adverb is wrapped around the verb. It made no sense to me when I started learning French, because that's not how we construct sentences in English. The direct translation is "I do speak not French," and of course that sounds freaky.

I'm guessing either/or and neither/nor were a part of speech borrowed from another language, as English so often does, and that's why the pairings and instances seem odd to us.

So it goes.

 

[sd'sker]

I suggest sd'sker put all of this stressful thought towards something productive.

i tend to stress over things i should not, and i do not stress over things that i should. it is a neurosis.

In this situation or/nor acts as the fulcrum between the two choices. You can't say, "I want neither fish, chicken," because it sounds stupid. You need that fulcrum word to differentiate between the two choices. Then you get back to the affirmative/negative discussion, and you have your pairings. There is no double-negative because the either/or neither/nor is basically a phrase, just split in parts.

This is not something we usually find in English so it seems strange to us, but it happens in French quite often, such as, "Je ne parle pas Francais," (I don't speak French) my favorite French saying. In this French sentence, ne pas is the adverb to the verb parle, but the adverb is wrapped around the verb. It made no sense to me when I started learning French, because that's not how we construct sentences in English. The direct translation is "I do speak not French," and of course that sounds freaky.

I'm guessing either/or and neither/nor were a part of speech borrowed from another language, as English so often does, and that's why the pairings and instances seem odd to us.

So it goes.

yeah, i mean i get its point, it just seems unnecessary. and calling it a double negative was a mistake, i was just trying to point out you have one negative (neither) and then you have a word to couple two concepts (or), so 'nor' would be redundant.

i guess i get it, but do you get my hangup? am i making any sense?

 

[Count 'Bility]

Neurosis? Did you just invent a disorder?

 

[knapplc]

i guess i get it, but do you get my hangup? am i making any sense?

I get that certain parts of language can appear unusual or make no sense. Some of the comma rules are a bit dodgy to me, like the fact that you put commas in a date (Valentine's Day is on February 14th, 2013) but you omit the comma if you remove the date (Valentine's Day is in February 2013). To me, there should be a comma after February in the second example. I think that's a dumb rule.

I often ignore grammar rules I think are stupid, by the way. Or blatantly trample upon them, if you prefer that definition.

 

[sd'sker]

i do, indeed.

 

[tschu]

"@FonzieDennard15 Watering Hole Rocks haha"

Just don't do anything dumb afterwards Fonzie