I serve an amazing God

knapplc said:
Bye Bye Big XII said:
knapplc said:
BBBXII, that's not accurate at all. It is the burden of believers to provide proof. The fallacy in your post is that, in the absence of proof by believers, you're accepting their response "We can't prove it, so you disprove it." That's not an acceptable response. If something is asserted to exist, the burden of proof always lies with those making the assertion.
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Certainly that was not my intention. It's not so much as I don't understand the whole burden of proof lies with those making the assertion as so much as it is my frustration with the rigidity of which "non-believers" have in acceptance of the anecdotal evidence provided by those "believers" and vice versa--the rigidity of which "believers" have in acceptance of the anecdotal and scientific evidence provided by "non-believers".

Actually, what I find most irritating about this whole thread and that whole religious discussion hullapalooza is the inability of either side to empathize, or to try to understand the other side. And what's particularly even more frustrating to me is that both sides are intertwined, and yet huge outrageous arguments ensue about which is "more" right.
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Then you're missing out on the intent of my posts, because I've spelled that out several times.
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No, I understand what you're trying to say...I've +1 almost all your posts spelling out that idea.

 
I don't see why people can't have both God and science, when both of them ascribe different understandings. Neither of them are talking about the same thing.

 
Bye Bye Big XII said:
I don't see why people can't have both God and science, when both of them ascribe different understandings. Neither of them are talking about the same thing.
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They are and they aren't. When you insert god in order to explain why someone was healed...or why someone didn't die in a car wreck...or why the tides go in and out...or why you lost your job (god had a better plan for you). Just because something makes you feel good or gives you an answer, doesn't mean it's the pathway to truth.

 
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bennychico11 said:
Bye Bye Big XII said:
I don't see why people can't have both God and science, when both of them ascribe different understandings. Neither of them are talking about the same thing.
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They are and they aren't. When you insert god in order to explain why someone was healed...or why someone didn't die in a car wreck...or why the tides go in and out...or why you lost your job (god had a better plan for you). Just because something makes you feel good or gives you an answer, doesn't mean it's the pathway to truth.
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Yeah.

I think nobody wants to hear that their life and entire existence is the product of matter and energy obeying the laws of physics. I don't want to get all existential, but its just not a fun line of thinking. People want to believe that they are here for a reason and that their lives to mean something, other than just being a part of the universe, subjected to the same chaos as every other object floating around in outer space.

 
knapplc said:
Bye Bye Big XII said:
I don't see why people can't have both God and science, when both of them ascribe different understandings. Neither of them are talking about the same thing.
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You can. I know a couple of Christians who are scientists (for a living). Three, actually.
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Five, if you count me.

My point by saying that is that I do have God and science. I don't use God to explain anything that could have a scientific meaning. Where I use God is when I try to do the right thing, now I don't ask myself what God specifically would think the right thing is, but in an indirect sense I do get some of my morals from.

 
I'm kind of curious to get some responses that relate specifically back to what the OP described. I have a couple of questions.

1) Whatever your spiritual/religious background, do you think 'God' can heal people?

2) How does 'God' pick and choose who to heal and who not to? In conjunction, if you believe he has the ability to heal/answer prayers, how do you make the distinction between him and a tyrant?

As is obvious to many of you, I don't think he has this power, but I'm interested to get views from people who may be theists, atheists, or whatever, on these questions. One of my biggest problems with this line of thinking goes down to the basis of free will and fate - I don't like knowing that I have no control over my life, and if 'God' has the power to either answer or not answer my prayers, it means I'm not better than an amusing toy.

 
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knapplc said:
Bye Bye Big XII said:
I don't see why people can't have both God and science, when both of them ascribe different understandings. Neither of them are talking about the same thing.
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You can. I know a couple of Christians who are scientists (for a living). Three, actually.
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I know a very large number of these!

It's definitely possible. I don't really know how they put it all together but they find a way, we all do. The things I have an issue with is when somebody chooses not to 'believe in' evolution because of their religion, or because that's what they were taught in their Christian school, that evolution is somehow an optional component to biology.

 
zoogies said:
knapplc said:
Bye Bye Big XII said:
I don't see why people can't have both God and science, when both of them ascribe different understandings. Neither of them are talking about the same thing.
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You can. I know a couple of Christians who are scientists (for a living). Three, actually.
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I know a very large number of these!

It's definitely possible. I don't really know how they put it all together but they find a way, we all do. The things I have an issue with is when somebody chooses not to 'believe in' evolution because of their religion, or because that's what they were taught in their Christian school, that evolution is somehow an optional component to biology.
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Looks like Christianity needs to take a page out of Islam. Islam does not see any incompability between science and religion. They go hand in hand.

 
bennychico11 said:
The Dude said:
God has always been the ultimate deus ex machina for people unwilling to really analyze a strange event. In ancient times, it was lightning, thunder, volcanoes, etc... now it's a cosmological event. With a sense of history, we realize that all these things eventually saw a naturalistic explanation; the Big Bang will likely be no different. God will then run and hide to the next dark corner of human knowledge.

I think we're all looking for answers to the same questions, some people are just satisfied with "welp, God musta done it." Others remain unsatisfied with that hypothesis.
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Neil DeGrasse Tyson said something similar:

(YouTube video)

"God is an ever receding pocket of scientific ignorance that's getting smaller and smaller as time moves on."

"If you were so content in that answer...the day you stop looking because you're content god did it, I don't need you in the lab! You're useless on the frontier of understanding the nature of the world."

I pose a question to theists. I think most atheists, myself included, would perfectly accept a god if it were found out to be true that one existed. I have no problem with that. I would indeed accept that one existed if sufficient evidence were presented. Even be grateful if it was the reason for my existence (worship is a whole different question all together, though).

Now, I ask, if sufficient evidence were presented (hypothetically), would you accept the non-existence of the god. If all your questions were answered of how life began, how the universe began, what happens after you die, etc. etc....and non of that ended up being caused by a god, would you accept it?
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Honestly, yes. I must say that it would be a very sad day, but if proof is given that there is no God, I would have no choice but to accept it. It's a good thing that day will never come.

Enhance89 said:
I'm kind of curious to get some responses that relate specifically back to what the OP described. I have a couple of questions.

1) Whatever your spiritual/religious background, do you think 'God' can heal people?

2) How does 'God' pick and choose who to heal and who not to? In conjunction, if you believe he has the ability to heal/answer prayers, how do you make the distinction between him and a tyrant?

As is obvious to many of you, I don't think he has this power, but I'm interested to get views from people who may be theists, atheists, or whatever, on these questions. One of my biggest problems with this line of thinking goes down to the basis of free will and fate - I don't like knowing that I have no control over my life, and if 'God' has the power to either answer or not answer my prayers, it means I'm not better than an amusing toy.
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1) Yes. My belief is that Jesus existed and was God in the flesh. During his time on Earth, he healed people from sickness and blindness.

2) Why would we want a world filled with rainbows and roses where God solved all of our problems and healed all of our sicknesses? Would it be easy? Hell yeah, it would. But wouldn't that take away a huge part of life? One of the biggest parts of life is overcoming obstacles when life is touchest and pulling through. While I would love to see a world where our loved-ones never get cancer and they live to be old, that would just make the world too perfect and easy. I won't receive a perfect world until I (hopefully) get to heaven after I die.

There's a lot about God that I don't know and it doesn't always make sense, but I think that's the way it was meant to be.

 
HuskerShark said:
2) Why would we want a world filled with rainbows and roses where God solved all of our problems and healed all of our sicknesses? Would it be easy? Hell yeah, it would. But wouldn't that take away a huge part of life? One of the biggest parts of life is overcoming obstacles when life is touchest and pulling through. While I would love to see a world where our loved-ones never get cancer and they live to be old, that would just make the world too perfect and easy. I won't receive a perfect world until I (hopefully) get to heaven after I die.
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Count me as someone who isn't interested in living in a world of disease and death for the privilege of overcoming the obstacles. Have a loved one die from cancer and tell us whether you still have this opinion. I'm guessing your mind will change.

 
knapplc said:
HuskerShark said:
2) Why would we want a world filled with rainbows and roses where God solved all of our problems and healed all of our sicknesses? Would it be easy? Hell yeah, it would. But wouldn't that take away a huge part of life? One of the biggest parts of life is overcoming obstacles when life is touchest and pulling through. While I would love to see a world where our loved-ones never get cancer and they live to be old, that would just make the world too perfect and easy. I won't receive a perfect world until I (hopefully) get to heaven after I die.
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Count me as someone who isn't interested in living in a world of disease and death for the privilege of overcoming the obstacles. Have a loved one die from cancer and tell us whether you still have this opinion. I'm guessing your mind will change.
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Too late.

 
HuskerShark said:
knapplc said:
HuskerShark said:
2) Why would we want a world filled with rainbows and roses where God solved all of our problems and healed all of our sicknesses? Would it be easy? Hell yeah, it would. But wouldn't that take away a huge part of life? One of the biggest parts of life is overcoming obstacles when life is touchest and pulling through. While I would love to see a world where our loved-ones never get cancer and they live to be old, that would just make the world too perfect and easy. I won't receive a perfect world until I (hopefully) get to heaven after I die.
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Count me as someone who isn't interested in living in a world of disease and death for the privilege of overcoming the obstacles. Have a loved one die from cancer and tell us whether you still have this opinion. I'm guessing your mind will change.
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Too late.
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And you're totally OK with that? That's a bizarre, morbid stance.

If you believe in a God who has the power to take HIS CHILDREN out of this life of suffering and misery but CHOOSES not to, you're nuts.

 
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