The Maudfather
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For the Christians on the board, this is something I've never received a real definitive answer about. If so, why don't Christians just kill themselves, so they can be with God?
If a Christian commits suicide, does he/she make it to heaven?
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The Maudfather
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If there is no definitive answer, then what seems to be the general consensus among the church?
bennychico11
New member
General consensus seems to be you won't reach heaven. It's considered a serious sin.
Of course, I think many would state that they aren't sure how god would punish you or if you'd be forgiven for it.
Of course, I think many would state that they aren't sure how god would punish you or if you'd be forgiven for it.
The Maudfather
New member
Let's just say that you purposely drank a liter of hemlock and died. According to Mark 16:16-18,
"Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18 they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well.”
If you should so happen to die after drinking the hemlock, will you make it to heaven?
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Landlord
Banned
The scripture you're quoting isn't Jesus just talking about any believer at any point in history - He's referring to some supernatural conditions towards the end of recorded history.
General consensus is definitely no. Not because it's a matter of it being too big of a sin or what have you, but moreso because it's taken as pretty damning external evidence of a non-regenerate heart. So I guess that is to say that committing suicide isn't what causes you to go to hell, not being saved is what causes you to go to hell, and you just sealed the deal by destroying any opportunity to repent and believe.
The Maudfather
New member
The verse quoted seems to be pretty straight forward, in referring to any believer. What makes you believe he is referring to some supernatural conditions toward the end of recorded history?
So, if you die before you have a chance to repent of your latest sin, then you go to hell?
bhamHusker
New member
Suicide is much better external evidence for a severe mental issue - probably physiological - than it is for a "non-regenerate heart."
You jeezites crack me up sometimes.
bennychico11
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It'sNotAFakeID
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da skers
New member
Depends on the church. Many think if the person believed in Jesus and accepted him as his savior that they will still go to heaven because of a verse in John 14:6. Some say that you go to a purgatory and not to the depths of hell. But by some accounts not being with God is considered hell so I guess you can take that into consideration as well. Atheists don't really give a sh#t.
bhamHusker
New member
No, I meant physiological, thank you. As in a physical defect in the brain which, of course, manifests itself as a psychological issue. I draw the distinction because a physical problem in particular (which is surely a part of the almighty's grand plan) highlights the ridiculousness of the notion that whether or not one commits suicide is an indicator of how jesusy the person is.
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Landlord
Banned
My mistake, I didn't pay attention to the verse properly and thought you were referencing something entirely different. Still, definitely have to be careful in the interpretation, or lack thereof, in Jesus' words here, as the implications could be grand and sweeping (all believers at all times) or relatively minor (first converted Christians in the early church).
As to the last question, no. You go to hell if you have not received the Holy Spirit and through it, saving grace. Repentance is a constant, never-ending process in a believer's life and is a result of, not a requirement for, salvation.
From a reformed perspective, one would argue that once saved, always saved. That there is no slipping in and out of security in Christ. Others would argue that salvation is dependent on faith, not just as a one-time event but as an ever-constant presence in our lives that can be resisted, and that suicide would be attributed to a lack of faith in God's plan, providence, promises, etc. Catholics and more orthodox parties consider it unforgivable because you have no chance to repent of it.
I honestly don't know what I believe. I tend to line up with reformed thinking more often than not, and my best guess would be that while suicide is a serious sin (It's self-murder) and in definite rebellion towards God, that it is not a "mortal" or unforgiveable sin (Scripture teaches that blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is the only recorded mortal sin) and it can fall under God's saving grace.
As far as your original question about why don't Christians just kill themselves to be with God? Philippians 1:21-25 spells it out well:
"For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain. 22 If I am to go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labor for me. Yet what shall I choose? I do not know! 23 I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far; 24 but it is more necessary for you that I remain in the body. 25 Convinced of this, I know that I will remain, and I will continue with all of you for your progress and joy in the faith..."
Paul is explaining that while we do live in a broken and fallen world, we are still in fellowship with Jesus and ideally we should be so consumed with Him that we are content with peace and joy in our current positions. Not only that, but we've been given commands and have purpose in this world - the biggest truth about the gospel is that it isn't about me; it's about God. Killing myself to be with Him is entirely "me" focused and obviously selfish. My concern should be advancing the kingdom and bringing His name glory, not personal benefit or desire.
Does it have to be either or? Why not both and? People have severe mental issues that lead towards tendencies of sexual perversion, rage, violence, alcoholism, etc. -- that doesn't discredit or damage the notion that human beings are inherently sinful.
HuskerHacker
Banned
It is my opinion that one is damned from suicide because in the act of "taking your own life at your own choosing" you in fact present yourself as God.
Let us simply consider Christ's agony in the garden in which he states in Matthew 26:39, "My Father, if it is not possible that this cup pass without my drinking it, your will be done." As scripture clearly shows, not Jesus himself would deny his own destiny.
Additionally, God never forces himself upon us. It is our choice to live as he asks us to live and in that choice, we must also accept his plan for how we are to end this life.
Let us simply consider Christ's agony in the garden in which he states in Matthew 26:39, "My Father, if it is not possible that this cup pass without my drinking it, your will be done." As scripture clearly shows, not Jesus himself would deny his own destiny.
Additionally, God never forces himself upon us. It is our choice to live as he asks us to live and in that choice, we must also accept his plan for how we are to end this life.
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