Immigration Ban

Bornhusker said:
you are correct, I thought there already was a path for them. There should be.
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Kudos. I agree.

It seems like there's been a widening gap on this issue. Dems who used to be more moderate on the issue now strongly support a pathway to citizenship while the GOP activists (and influential media) are pushing for a hardline approach involving no concessions & deportations under Trump.

Looks like it's coming to a head with this bill they're trying to hammer out, though. Crazy to see McConnell publicly announce he needed to find out what Trump supported before acting today. It's going to be very interesting to see what happens.

 
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sho said:
How do green cards work?  He's married to an American citizen for years, he should able to obtain a green card no problem*.   Why did he not do that?   Seems like an easy fix for him and his family.

*  However easy it is to get a green card, I've never had to research that.
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I missed this part of the topic. My former roommate is in the process of getting her green card. I don't know how it works when you're married to a citizen. But I know if you have a PhD it's much easier to get one if you go work at a university. Many companies won't hire you if you don't have one and many companies won't sponsor you for one.

Universities will normally sponsor professors for a green card. This is a very expensive processs. I seem to recall her mentioning $6,000. On top of that the wait is really long. She was offered the job in early 2016 and started the job in August 2016. She still does not have her green card. Even before Trump it took very long to get, but once he became president they got rid of a way you could get it expedited. (She's from Europe and that change affected her).

Also, I know from several teachers from foreign countries that many/ most employers have a policy of, if there is an American and a non citizen and their talents are similar, they'll pick the American. I think this is the right thing for them to do but I just get so damn sick of people saying they're taking our jobs. They are not taking our jobs. They are filling a void.

The way it seems to me from my experience at grad school and from the people I know and the company policies I know about, for the most part the highly qualified foreign workers only take the jobs there isn't an American for. The foreign workers without a degree are risking their lives to come here and working jobs no one else wants. They are helping the U.S., not hurting it.

 
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Bornhusker said:
I stand corrected... this is even funnier. Comparing the immigrants that came here and either helped start this country or gain citizenship legally is being compared to illegals that don't give a damn about the law... THAT is the funniest thing I have read.
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Oh okay, so when immigration was heavily white, then that’s okay. But when it’s black and brown periods of immigration it’s not okay. Gotcha. 

 
Fru said:
Oh okay, so when immigration was heavily white, then that’s okay. But when it’s black and brown periods of immigration it’s not okay. Gotcha. 
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This is the weakest reply, or weakest attempt at rebuttal/trying to make something racist I think I have seen.. I literally laughed out loud one this one.

 
Bornhusker said:
This is the weakest reply, or weakest attempt at rebuttal/trying to make something racist I think I have seen.. I literally laughed out loud one this one.
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I'm just trying to understand your rationale for why immigrants now are bad and immigrants in the past were just fine. You say white immigrants "built this country" (actually, slaves did) and now brown immigrants are evil criminals. 

I don't think I'm the one making it racist. You are. 

 
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Bornhusker said:
curious.. if a citizen in this country breaks the law will the government care that I have family or will I have to pay for the crime committed?

and the 30 year thing.. really? if a person has been here 30 years and has never tried to become a legal citizen, then you damn right they should be shipped back. That clearly shows they have not even bothered to try to become legal, which means they have been breaking more than the law of citizenship.
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You really don't know much about this process do you?  Have you ever worked within the immigration process?  Have you ever helped an immigrant become a citizen?  Well, I have.

It took years and was extremely frustrating and quite expensive.  This was even with a person who had a work visa from Brazil.  I know of another situation very similar with a woman who moved here from Canada.  I know another man who was born in Mexico, his family moved here when he was a small boy.  As an adult, he had worked with two different lawyers that basically just took thousands of dollars of his money and he still was never able to get through the process.  

These are all people who have no criminal record, have been employed and paid taxes all their lives.

Your ignorance on the subject is showing through your posts.  Sad thing is, your knowledge of it is probably comparable to the administration's. 

 
funhusker said:
Question of the morning:

Should people respect laws? Or should laws respect people?

I anticipate everyone's thoughts.....
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I think the answer depends on what you value.

For instance, some folks highly value law & order and respect for institutions such that they'd have to answer that people need to respect laws in a civilized society.

Other people believe certain laws are flawed or incompatible with current law. For instance, smoking pot is still a federal offense. But lots of people make use of various forms of marijuana every day because they've got legitimate medical reasons to do so or they don't believe it is harmful. There is good evidence to support that position. Thus, it still being classified as schedule I at the federal level is fairly ridiculous. 

On the other side of that coin, should we not question things that seem wrong if they ARE legal? In the run-up to the Great Recession in 2008, if you read between the lines you could see a housing bubble forming. But lenders continued to offer up subprime mortgages wantonly far beyond the point of safety.... and then the whole thing came crashing down.

Does that mean what they did was fine because it was technically legal at the time?

The latter camp offers a whole lot more nuance, for my money, and that's why I lean towards laws respecting people.

 
BigRedBuster said:
You really don't know much about this process do you?  Have you ever worked within the immigration process?  Have you ever helped an immigrant become a citizen?  Well, I have.

It took years and was extremely frustrating and quite expensive.  This was even with a person who had a work visa from Brazil.  I know of another situation very similar with a woman who moved here from Canada.  I know another man who was born in Mexico, his family moved here when he was a small boy.  As an adult, he had worked with two different lawyers that basically just took thousands of dollars of his money and he still was never able to get through the process.  

These are all people who have no criminal record, have been employed and paid taxes all their lives.

Your ignorance on the subject is showing through your posts.  Sad thing is, your knowledge of it is probably comparable to the administration's. 
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Wait, you mean to tell me that immigration is nuanced issue with all sorts of problems and challenges that include variables and context that aren't always easily solved? 

 
funhusker said:
Question of the morning:

Should people respect laws? Or should laws respect people?

I anticipate everyone's thoughts.....
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I recall an interview RFK did, and he was asked "Shouldn't Negroes just obey the law?" and his response was something along the lines of "Well what has the law ever done for the Negro?" 

 
Fru said:
I'm just trying to understand your rationale for why immigrants now are bad and immigrants in the past were just fine. You say white immigrants "built this country" (actually, slaves did) and now brown immigrants are evil criminals. 

I don't think I'm the one making it racist. You are. 
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Show me where I said anything about color!  You took this subject and went down the race path.. not me!

Fru said:
Oh okay, so when immigration was heavily white, then that’s okay. But when it’s black and brown periods of immigration it’s not okay. Gotcha. 
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see above.. you injected race, not me.

I wonder if there were any other colors that helped established this country, or who very early on immigrated to the US, but went through proper channels? hmm I'm betting there was.

BigRedBuster said:
You really don't know much about this process do you?  Have you ever worked within the immigration process?  Have you ever helped an immigrant become a citizen?  Well, I have.

It took years and was extremely frustrating and quite expensive.  This was even with a person who had a work visa from Brazil.  I know of another situation very similar with a woman who moved here from Canada.  I know another man who was born in Mexico, his family moved here when he was a small boy.  As an adult, he had worked with two different lawyers that basically just took thousands of dollars of his money and he still was never able to get through the process.  

These are all people who have no criminal record, have been employed and paid taxes all their lives.

Your ignorance on the subject is showing through your posts.  Sad thing is, your knowledge of it is probably comparable to the administration's. 
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lol, we went through this yesterday a few posts up.. I admitted I was wrong.

 
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