Immigration Ban

Bornhusker said:
hmm, weird, I figured you guys would have known not all blacks were slaves.. actually, there were blacks that actually owned slaves themselves.
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Please regale us with stories of the great non-slave African to U.S. migration. Either that or stop pretending that you actually think people aren't aware that there were free Blacks in 1870 and prior to that (almost all of which were descendants of slaves). Regardless of whether there are exceptions, citizenship given to Blacks in 1870 is not at all relevant to this discussion.

 
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Landlord said:
By 'our', you mean white people's culture? Or what are you referring to?
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I was thinking in terms of nationalist American culture. Baseball, hot dogs, apple pie, pride in the red white & blue - all of that jazz.

It's a pretty cliche representation of America, but at the same time an image that a lot of people feel pretty strongly about.

I ask because I always cringe when people start making xenophobic remarks to people of different cultures like "speak English!" I'm curious what people feel the appropriate boundaries are for this topic.

 
Bornhusker said:
hmm, weird, I figured you guys would have known not all blacks were slaves.. actually, there were blacks that actually owned slaves themselves.
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Hmm, weird, I figured you would have known the nature of how general, and not specific, remarks work.

dudeguyy said:
I was thinking in terms of nationalist American culture. Baseball, hot dogs, apple pie, pride in the red white & blue - all of that jazz.

It's a pretty cliche representation of America, but at the same time an image that a lot of people feel pretty strongly about.

I ask because I always cringe when people start making xenophobic remarks to people of different cultures like "speak English!" I'm curious what people feel the appropriate boundaries are for this topic.
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It's pretty cliche white. Not at all going after you with this, but baseball/hot dogs/apple pie is a white culture normalization. It only seems 'American' because we've been the dominant culture in this country since day one, for most of it with our boot heels firmly on the neck of other minorities and their cultures. 

 
On the topic of assimilation, I do think it's important that immigrants learn English.

Following our laws seems like a no brainer but since that Dr. was caught performing female genital mutilation in the U.S., it's something that sticks out to me as something pretty damn important.

 
Moiraine said:
On the topic of assimilation, I do think it's important that immigrants learn English.

Following our laws seems like a no brainer but since that Dr. was caught performing female genital mutilation in the U.S., it's something that sticks out to me as something pretty damn important.
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Not to mention assimilation is externally important in preventing radicalization. Almost every terrorist turns to tose organizations because they just didn't fit in with the rest of society.

But it's a balancing act between assimilating and keeping they're traditions and heritage intacted as possible.

 
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I would guess 60% of the students in my graduate classes were from Africa, the Middle East, China, or India. And I'd guess about 10% in my department were from Africa.

 
dudeguyy said:
Are we supposed to believe this guy gives a crap about Dreamers? Because people who do care about them typically don't sign off on ads like these. This is some Willie Horton sh#t.
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i guess this means that since they want no gun controls that the republicans are now complicate in every gun related death?

 
Here's America's immigration crisis, explained.

LINK


 


Why Our Immigration Debate is Insane


There is no way our current system of laws and regulations regarding immigration can function. It is broken and the only arguments being had are tantamount to rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.


Let's consider the situation and what it would actually require to get to the end game that most anti-immigrant zealots want- specifically, no more undocumented immigrants present and zero unauthorized immigration.


The Current Situation


There are about 11.3 million undocumented immigrants in the USA right now - probably more than that, as many as 12.5 million. 1 2 The majority are present via having entered by legal means, and have overstayed their visa.

During 2017, ICE arrested 143 thousand people. 3 That's about one percent of all the undocumented immigrants in the country.

There's a backlog of more than 658 thousand immigration cases in the courts right now.4 5 Some of these cases are not expected to be heard until 2022. Actual deportations under Trump are down, and arrests are up- so there is actually a detention space crisis.

Removal proceedings, even under expedited removal processes, can take weeks or months, requiring detention of the individual until that time.

It costs $164 a day to detain someone in ICE detention. 6 There were 41,005 people in detention as of March 4, 2017. That's six million dollars a day ($6,000,000.00) being spent to detain less than 0.03 percent of all undocumented immigrants.

If you're curious, the cost to detain all 11 million for one day, assuming you had both the ability to detain them all and the capacity for them, would be 1.8 billion dollars. Every day. 700 billion dollars a year, if you're even more curious.


Now, logistics


If you could somehow find a way to get all 11 million people into detention, then begin deporting them- say by rail, you'd have to put 1000 people on a ten-car train leaving the station every 45 minutes for a full year before you'd be done. Other methods of transportation (boat, plane, bus) would be similarly overwhelming in terms of sheer logistical needs.

Of course, that doesn't take into account things like investigation, paying people to detain, house, feed and care for these folks, providing for court proceedings and due process rights, appeals and the like. That costs quite a bit.

And of course this incredibly simple example assumes that 100% of all of them are going to the same country, which is willing and able to accept them- a completely ridiculous notion, but even if it were true, it would still be a practical impossibility.

We currently spend about 24 billion dollars a year on Customs and Border Patrol and Immigration and Customs Enforcement- out of about 70 billion for DHS overall. 7 As we've noted above, that's buying us 143 thousand people detained in 2017. Some quick cocktail napkin math shows that at the current ROI we're getting, we'd need to spend about 2.4 trillion dollars to get us there. That's assuming no economies of scale, etc, obviously. And it also includes no additional costs for things like feeding, housing and managing a prison population that exceeds the entire current US prison population by a factor of four. But it does give one a good sense of the scope of the problem.

For reference, the US budget for 2015 was $3.8 trillion.


The End-Game


So! Back to it. If our desired goal is the removal of 11 million undocumented immigrants from our country, and having a bit more context on the size of that problem, and the costs associated with it...

It should be quite obvious that unless we're willing to quite literally bankrupt the country, there's no practical path forward to removing all the undocumented immigrants currently in the US.

Perhaps we should consider reality and objective facts as part of our approach to both immigration policy and enforcement of same- because right now, ideology is simply being used to manipulate you, and any policy options currently under consideration by our government are literally impossible to carry out- they serve no sane or rational purpose, being only ways to spend money and hurt people for no logical reason.
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Good post knapp.

I've felt for a long time this was a giant waste of $ (and that we were probably profiting from illegal immigrants as a country) and that was before reading the logistics.

 
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