Insurrection fallout

funhusker said:
I hate going all tinfoil,

but maybe Trumps plan and the Jan 6 disgustingness is just the tip of a HUGE iceberg?
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There could maybe be about a 50/50 split, at the most, that swung hard to tRump I would think. Remember the reports of agents being butt hurt about how they were housed and treated on the road? No fans in that group I would bet...

 
DevoHusker said:
There could maybe be about a 50/50 split, at the most, that swung hard to tRump I would think. Remember the reports of agents being butt hurt about how they were housed and treated on the road? No fans in that group I would bet...
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Yeah.  But I also remember reports of alt-right groups infiltrating police, military, and other organizations.

I would have never imagined this many Americans were idiots.  But I’m realizing that the old George Carlin bit about “stupid people” is very accurate.

 
TGHusker said:
Hey Mr Tin Man :)  elaborate please. I would like to hear the path you think this could take us down. 
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Just the possibility that there might have been a huge infestation of "rebels" working their way through positions that would be really important to pull off a coup.

 
funhusker said:
Just the possibility that there might have been a huge infestation of "rebels" working their way through positions that would be really important to pull off a coup.
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I mean we have Micheal Flynn, a freaking US General.

Apparent sympathizers in the Secret Service

Proud Boys proudly boasting about infultrating police and military

Super PACS getting people like Gaetz, and MTG, etc elected.

 
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funhusker said:
I mean we have George Flynn, a freaking US General.

Apparent sympathizers in the Secret Service

Proud Boys proudly boasting about infultrating police and military

Super PACS getting people like Gaetz, and MTG, etc elected.
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Yes I see your point and a good reason for the SS (yes that is creepy typing that) to delete text messages 

 
funhusker said:
I mean we have Micheal Flynn, a freaking US General.

Apparent sympathizers in the Secret Service

Proud Boys proudly boasting about infultrating police and military

Super PACS getting people like Gaetz, and MTG, etc elected.
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Don't forget the wife of a Supreme Court justice, his "besty forever", actively working to subvert democracy.  

 
This may be a harsh reality.  The J6C can prove Trump was negligence in his duty, power hungry, inept etc  but can they prove criminality? Jonathan Turley has his doubts. 

The bulk of the OP-ED is copied below. 

https://thehill.com/opinion/judiciary/3565615-last-chance-hearing-jan-6-committee-has-yet-to-establish-a-criminal-case-against-trump/


 


Last-chance hearing: Jan. 6 committee has yet to establish a criminal case against Trump



BY JONATHAN TURLEY, OPINION CONTRIBUTOR - 07/19/22 11:10 AM ET
THE VIEWS EXPRESSED BY CONTRIBUTORS ARE THEIR OWN AND NOT THE VIEW OF THE HILL
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At the start of the hearings, committee members promised they had the long-sought smoking-gun evidence — new material that would close the circle on Trump. Committee member Rep. Adam Schiff (D-Calif.) indicated he thought there was now “credible evidence” to support a variety of criminal charges. His colleague, Rep. Jamie Raskin (D-Md.), said the committee would show that Trump organized a “coup” on Jan. 6, 2021.

No sooner had the hearings begun when many in the media declared that the criminal case had been conclusively proven — even though most of what was being presented was already generally known.

It often sounded more like a prayer than proof.
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It is difficult to make a criminal case over what an official failed to do. Yet the last hearing seemed to focus on a number of things that did not occur, from a draft tweet that was not sent to an executive order that was never signed. There were discussions of appointing Trump attorney Sidney Powell as a special counsel, seizing voting machines or replacing the Justice Department’s leadership. As unnerving as these proposals were, they also were not carried out.

It is the type of evidence used to show mens rea — “guilty mind.” However, crimes generally require both guilty minds and guilty acts. Building a criminal case on the failure to act to stop the violence is a notoriously difficult case to make. It has been raised in various contexts without success even when officials had direct law enforcement duties, as in Seattle with the CHOP zone in the summer of 2020. It is even more difficult when the House committee has blocked any serious investigation into the potentially contributing failure of Congress to take better precautions before the riot, another costly act of omission.
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The committee has built a powerful case that no compelling evidence of widespread voter fraud existed in the 2020 presidential election, and that Trump knew (or should have known) he was asserting baseless allegations. White House strategy sessions became increasingly heated between Trump’s two teams of lawyers, including a breathtaking Dec. 18, 2020, meeting when two lawyers seemed close to a physical altercation. Clearly, Trump only heard what he wanted to hear — but that does not prove he knew the election was valid.


The committee has portrayed Trump’s reliance on a private legal team as knowingly dishonest by calling it “Team Crazy.” However,the committee also portrayed Trump as a raving egomaniac who could not accept that he lost the election to Joe Biden.​



But, again, it is a difficult criminal case to make, based on a layperson believing one set of lawyers over another. Former prosecutor and former senator Heidi Heitkamp (D-N.D.) said of the hearings that “as a former prosecutor myself, everything that I’ve heard, I think it would be a very tough indictment to get.”
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It is not even clear, after seven hearings, what crime we are discussing.


The conspiracy to insurrection claim of the second Trump impeachment has turned into accusations of obstruction of Congress, seditious conspiracy and conspiracy to defraud, or the dereliction of duty suggested by committee members like Rep. Luria.​



Attorney General Merrick Garland clearly is looking for evidence of criminal conduct and could seek an indictment. If based on the committee’s evidence, however, it is a criminal case that would be ripe for reversal even if a conviction could be secured from a favorable District of Columbia jury.

Looking objectively at the evidence, the committee never supplied “credible” proof of crimes. That is not to say the evidence is not shocking; indeed, it is like a series of “jump scares” involving Trump and others raising unfounded or unconstitutional courses of conduct.
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However, the most damning evidence concerns what Trump failed to do in those 187 minutes. 

Trump has stressed that he told his supporters to go to the Capitol “peacefully” to support Republicans challenging the election. At 1:11 p.m., Trump concluded his speech. Around 2:10 p.m., people surged up the Capitol steps. At 4:17 p.m., Trump made his statement to stop — roughly an hour and a half later.

Many have denounced that delay, and some of us were critical of Trump’s speech as he was giving it or soon after it ended. His was a failure of leadership — but that does not mean it was a violation of the criminal code.

 ​
It is the type of evidence that should have been gathered before the second impeachment, to make a case for conviction in the Senate. Instead, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) and others opted for a “snap impeachment,” holding a single hearing. Today, they seem to be building the case I recommended in 2021 — just 19 months too late.
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The Jan. 6 committee has made a case against Trump personally and politically. It has not done so criminally. This final scheduled hearing would be an excellent time for that promised case to be finally made.
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funhusker said:
There has to be something going on.  This many people aren’t this stupid, are they?!?!
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Like what?  This guy knows he is lying through his teeth.  He is trying to convince people that the Proud Boys were there to be peaceful.  Why does he think he needs to lie about that?

 
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