Count 'Bility
Banned
I suppose it's Suh's fault for forcing Colt McCoy to throw the ball away with a fraction of a second left as opposed to lettin it run out.
Is Tommie as good as he has been made out to be?
- Thread starter Army_Allen
- Start date
knapplc
Active member
Yeah, I don't get that, either. Collinsworth said Little made a "Dwight Clark-like" play, but instead of praising the opponent and allowing our player the grace of forgiveness on a play he could have made just an nth-degree better, we gotta be sure to correct the misconception that Brook did anything other than screw up. It's weird.
Enhance
Administrator
Players are typically only as good as the the rest of their team allows them to be. Clearly, the teams Frazier played on were phenomenal. The offensive line was definitely the most integral part of their success.
When Frazier was in the game, however, the offense possessed a specific firepower unseen when Berringer or Turner were in. While the offense was successful more often than not, Frazier ran the offense better than anybody else. Obviously, if the overall team was worse, Frazier would have been less successful. But a player's Hall of Fame candidacy should not greatly reflect the circumstants surrounding him. I think they can play a small role, but not a large one.
When Frazier was in the game, however, the offense possessed a specific firepower unseen when Berringer or Turner were in. While the offense was successful more often than not, Frazier ran the offense better than anybody else. Obviously, if the overall team was worse, Frazier would have been less successful. But a player's Hall of Fame candidacy should not greatly reflect the circumstants surrounding him. I think they can play a small role, but not a large one.
In the Deed the Glory
New member
flatwaterfan
New member
Jordan did get away with a lot of palming, carry the ball, traveling and favorable calls. For some players they changed the games rules to stop them and for others they let them slide. Didn't Jordan himself say that there were more talented players after losing a game of 1 on 1 onetime?
In the Deed the Glory
New member
I have no idea about the 1 on 1 comment, I know Magic Johnson, Charles Barkley, Larry Bird, Bill Russell, Wilt Chamberlain, Oscar Robertson, and Kareem all say Michael Jordan is the best player of all time. And they say it isn't close...
Wow, favorable calls. At that time in the NBA it was not illegal to hand-check. You could actually, as a defender, push the opposing player whichever way you wanted with a hand on his hip. That seems pretty favorable for a defender. The opposing teams would purposely be much more physical, bordering on violent, to Jordan when he went into the paint because they couldn't stop him so they tried to intimidate him. The Pistons made this famous with The Jordan Rules.
He was the best perimeter defender in the league, probably in history. He continually guarded the other teams best player so Scottie could roam and play "free safety".
In one season he was the scoring champion at over 37 ppg, All-Star game MVP, NBA MVP, and Defensive Player of the Year. That has never been done before, and not been done since.
I think he lives up to his Legend just fine.
That being said, this isn't a thread about Jordan. Back on topic.
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AllNRed
New member
-Not any, as a matter of fact most coaches prefer their players to have some ability to put up stats. Will should be something that is in the entire team. A player can have all the will in the world but without the ability, he WILL fail more times than not.
-Frazier did more than WILL the team past Miami. I'm sure Berringer had the WILL to win when he threw the INT.....and i believe Frazier had early struggles in the game also, which is why he was replaced by Berringer in the game.
-Frazier didn't OUTPLAY Charlie Ward. That was a very even match up of two of the best dual threat QBs at that time. I know I was hoping for the match up since the beginning of that season. Would have liked a different result in the game though...
-Any conversation about past players/games is pointless if you look at it in that light, because it's one person's perception vs another's, but nothing changes, but generate good conversations amongst the fans. If you feel this and the Dayne/Rozier are pointless, why do you participate in the conversation.......
-The last line we can agree on. As well as the fact that Frazier was never under appreciated or overrated.
AllNRed
New member
What....Jordan doesn't do anything different with the ball than Lebron James, Kobe Bryant, Dwayne Wade, or any other superstar. Obviously there are calls made in their favor, because they are franchise/superstars in the league, but his talent and accomplishments speak for itself. I would love to see a link about the 1 on 1 comment. Not sure where you saw that he considered someone be better or equal to him. When they made comparisons while he was in the league, it drove him to show how much better than that player he was, see Clyde Drexler/Magic Johnson.......... Even today, someone mentions Lebron James duplicating something MJ did or surpassing, and he goes on record that he could enter the league today if wanted and still dominate.....(I find that hard to believe at age 50, but you can see where is mindset is/was at)
Guy Chamberlin
Active member
Don't know what clip you were watching, but Collinsworth dissected the play and called it a bad decision by Berringer. Which is how every Nebraska fan who watched the game at the time remembers it. It's weird to call it anything else. And while I'm sure Tom Osborne forgave Brook, I notice he didn't put him back in the game. He put a less than 100% Tommie Frazier into the game, and Frazier led us from behind to win the National Championship. In a thread titled "Is Tommy (sic) as good as he has been made out to be" the observation was made to praise a Husker player and point out that not just any quartback could have been plugged into the Nebraska system and gotten the same result.
Guy Chamberlin
Active member
Not sure what point you're trying to make, but McCoy very nearly screwed up on that play. Suh gets credit for the rush, but McCoy had time and space to ditch the ball, and almost lost the game by lobbing it too lazily, apparently thinking the clock stopped when the ball crossed the out-of-bounds plane rather than when it landed. He was :01 or two degrees of arc away from being an all-time goat.
Count 'Bility
Banned
Ok. I'll take Chris Collinsworth's expert evaluation over my opinion. Thanks for the perspective.
Count 'Bility
Banned
You wanna know where the mistake was made. It was Osborne's fault for callin a damn PA bootleg to the short side to begin with when he had 4 downs to power it in from the 4. It was TO's grinding desire to prove that he wasnt a boring conservative old fogey that everyone thought he was. Osborne screwed it up, and he shenanigans almost cost us another title playing musical qb and all.
knapplc
Active member
This one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=988Rsnno2Ik&feature=player_detailpage#t=7848s
Edit - it won't let me link directly to the spot. Check out Collinsworth's analysis at 2:10:45.
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Guy Chamberlin
Active member
Guess I was thinking of the analyisis offered a few seconds before that:
"Dangerous! Berringer threw it up for grabs!
"It looked like the play had a chance, but Berringer made the decision to hang onto it and just absolutely blew it. That's one of those plays that as a quarterback you have to make the play immediately or throw the ball away. A blown play by Brook Berringer."