Landlord
Banned
Until he wins a championship or a post-season game period, there's no argument.
Man I forgot how good Taylor's wheels were
- Thread starter ZRod
- Start date
Until he wins a championship or a post-season game period, there's no argument.
teachercd
Active member
So, does that mean that Suh and David are not some of the best ever DT's and linebackers since they did not win a championship?
Landlord
Banned
HotGrillonGrillAction
New member
I just don't agree with it. Based on play alone, I find it hard to at least not include TM in the discussion. I understand the judgment is generally different due to the attention of the position, but the same excuses used for Suh and David (and many others - i.e. not having an offense, QB, supporting cast) could be and are used in comparing all positions, including QB.
Gill is widely regarded as the greatest ever on this board, yet no NC to speak of. Not winning in the post season vs winning in the post season (TM vs Gill / others) is more or less the same comparison as not winning a NC vs winning a NC (ala Gill vs Frazier).
HotGrillonGrillAction
New member
Well then! Let's include Craig Krenzel and Matt Mauck!!!!
Landlord
Banned
Championships are an important and weighty part of the equation, not the entirety of the equation. No need to resort to a strawman here.
Even if we weren't looking specifically at national championships and championships in general, there is still a glaring discrepancy here. Taylor is winless in the postseason. He's 0-5. Zero wins in five games. Not only that, but we've shown that we had the talent and ability to win most if not all of those games, so the arguments listed above can't hold water. Further, in a number of those games (certainly not all), his play was at best neutral to the team's success and at worst a detriment. Losing by a field goal to Oklahoma when leading 17-0, losing to a Washington team we had blown out earlier in the year (no need to mention our lack of motivation; everyone knows it exists), getting trounced by a Wisconsin team we had also beat earlier, etc.
Look, I love Taylor. I've been a huge fan of his since day one and he has had some gutsy and inspired football games for us. He's carried this team at times, but he's also had some moments of serious self destruction. Even if he has just as high of highs, how many of our great quarterbacks in the past have had the low and awful performances that Taylor fell into early in his career? He's had clutch moments but not quite that warrant him serious discussion as the greatest quarterback in school history. But he's got an entire season to finish his legacy and I hope he rises to the occasion.
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Count 'Bility
Banned
Brian Greise. LOL.
Ken Dorsey. haha.
TIM FRICKIN TEBOW. BAHAHA
Chris Weinke?
Josh Heupel?
I'll take Martinez over every single name I just mentioned.
Defining the success of a qb from an individual basis by championships is just not right. You have to look as his alone body of work. Case in point. The 2012 season. Taylor carried this team for 95% of the season. Burkhead was in and out, and the defense was porous on a good day. He has been very good, and without the supporting cast the greats have had. That's enough to put him in the conversation. But Landlord is right to an extent. Without championships, he will be forgotten to an extent. But it doesnt mean it's right.
Ken Dorsey. haha.
TIM FRICKIN TEBOW. BAHAHA
Chris Weinke?
Josh Heupel?
I'll take Martinez over every single name I just mentioned.
Defining the success of a qb from an individual basis by championships is just not right. You have to look as his alone body of work. Case in point. The 2012 season. Taylor carried this team for 95% of the season. Burkhead was in and out, and the defense was porous on a good day. He has been very good, and without the supporting cast the greats have had. That's enough to put him in the conversation. But Landlord is right to an extent. Without championships, he will be forgotten to an extent. But it doesnt mean it's right.
HotGrillonGrillAction
New member
FINE THEN! (didn't give up on this argument.....just gotta go work). 
ZRod
Active member
He can definitely rifle the short throws but on intermediate to long balls he seems more often than not to under throw his receivers. Maybe that comes down to his mechanics, but that's what I was getting at. I should have been more specific.
Mavric
Yoda
I agree. But your previous post didn't mention any other factors.
Landlord
Banned
The context of the conversation had already illuminated the things that already make him great, and my post was illustrating what is missing.
Mavric
Yoda
You said it didn't matter how great he was until he wins a championship.
Landlord
Banned
What I actually said was that he doesn't have a compelling argument as greatest quarterback in school history if he doesn't win a championship. They're very different.
RedRedJarvisRedwine
New member
I wouldn't put anything past Taylor. I think he's shown us that he's willing to put in the extra time. If he keeps getting better by working with his QB guy then who knows where he could end up. If he can get more consistent with his footwork and launch point then we could be looking at the next drew Brees. I think TM has the arm. His mechanics fail his accuracy too often but like I said, if he fixes that, I think he could be a good NFL QB