OL Mike Shoff

[RockyMountainOySker]

Ok, you found an example, but considering that LSU already has 10 4stars committed and is likely to get several more and the fact that they just played for the National Championship, I think they can afford to take a chance. Can you really say the same for us? I don't doubt that I come off like a jerk, but my point is that if these guys were not being recruited by anyone else for whatever reason, than why was it necessary to offer them scholarships. Ben actually had offers so I won't even include him, but is it really so bad for me to suggest that Jake and Sam walk on? If they really are the "frickin gems" that you say they are, they would be awarded scholarships.

Well, I can agree with something you've posted.

It's not bad that you suggest that some players could be walk-ons instead of offered schollies. But it is bad that you keep harping on the same couple of players who so far appear to be proving you wrong. Maybe the coaches actually knew what they were doing when they put them on scholarship.

Ok, we obviously agree to disagree. You keep accepting and defending mediocrity and I'll keep expecting something better.

HOW is the way Ben Cotton has playes anything close to mediocre?! He is a really good blocker and on top of it, he put in a lot of work in the off-season on becoming better at catching the ball. As far as I can remember this year, I can't recall him not catching a ball thrown his way, so he did a great job. How is that mediocre?!

I have to agree with you Shark that Ben has been very valuable to our offensive attack. He's was vastly under-utilized this season, plus he's had a few injury issues.

I did find an example.....the very first place I looked. I'm not going to waste an hour out of my day listing every 2 and low 3 star recruit that LSU, Alabama, OU, etc. has recruited every year. I looked at one teams current class only.

It's obvious that there is nothing we can say to HuskerT that will get him to confirm a #1 TE who makes are running game hum and doesn't drop passes, a redshirt freshman OL getting plenty of field time, and a more athletic younger brother deserve scholarships at Nebraska.

It's also obvious HT is more annoyed with this season's results than just the Cotton kids get schollies. I understand this. I also understand that we essentially played a bowl game every week this past season. New opponents and/or new venues every week. Can you really expect a National Championship every year or a conference championship year 1 and every subsequent year in B1G? I think your expectations are what need a reality check. I believe the program is in a good position. I believe this team will be fighting for a conference championship next year.

The reason you come off as a jerk is because your position in this debate says if a recruiting website gives a kid 2 stars then he should never receive a scholarship. And year after year 2 star recruits prove this wrong over and over and over and over and over....

 

[kchusker_chris]

I actually think his position is that sam/jake would have walked-on if we'd have asked. So to him that's wasting 2 scholarships. Whether they end up all-americans or busts is irrelevant...we could have had 2 more players on scholarship right now. 2 more oportunities to sign a 3 or 4 star. 2 more spots for this class or last, that for the longest time were throught to be 16ish in size. We talk about oversigning all the time - how much it benefits signing 2-3 more players each year than your competition. Well...here was an opportunity for us to sign 2 D1 players without "cheating".

I can't argue w/ that thought. Frankly...if we can get any kid with this type of skill to walk on it benefits the program. So why not the Cottons?

Where I don't agree is trying to devalue Ben/Jake's contributions to this team in order to justify that thought. There's no doubt both are turning into solid contributers. Sam likely will as well.

 

[HuskerShark]

I actually think his position is that sam/jake would have walked-on if we'd have asked. So to him that's wasting 2 scholarships. Whether they end up all-americans or busts is irrelevant...we could have had 2 more players on scholarship right now. 2 more oportunities to sign a 3 or 4 star. 2 more spots for this class or last, that for the longest time were throught to be 16ish in size. We talk about oversigning all the time - how much it benefits signing 2-3 more players each year than your competition. Well...here was an opportunity for us to sign 2 D1 players without "cheating".

I can't argue w/ that thought. Frankly...if we can get any kid with this type of skill to walk on it benefits the program. So why not the Cottons?

Where I don't agree is trying to devalue Ben/Jake's contributions to this team in order to justify that thought. There's no doubt both are turning into solid contributers. Sam likely will as well.

THAT I could see. Correct me if I'm wrong, but since Barney is an employee of the university, don't his kids get free tuition? Maybe I'm wrong, but that's usually the way it works...

 

[HuskerT]

No, that's not my position at all. My position has nothing to do with stars, my position is that if no school was offering Jake/Sam a scholarship than why was/is it necessary for us to? You seam to have all the answers, but keep avoiding that one. You keep trying to make it a recruiting service and evaluation debate, but I'm making it a common sense debate.

 

[RockyMountainOySker]

No, that's not my position at all. My position has nothing to do with stars, my position is that if no school was offering Jake/Sam a scholarship than why was/is it necessary for us to? You seam to have all the answers, but keep avoiding that one. You keep trying to make it a recruiting service and evaluation debate, but I'm making it a common sense debate.

Certainly haven't been avoiding that point. It just doesn't hold much weight to me.

You see no other schools offering all the time at all programs. When kids commit early, especially instate kids, other schools don't waste time trying to recruit the kid away. I mean in the Cotton example, their father will practically be their position coach. Why would the Cotton's entertain another scholarship and why would a school waste time recruiting them? Happens every single year with early instate commits at any major program.

I'm on board with what kchusker_chris said.

 

[HuskerT]

No, that's not my position at all. My position has nothing to do with stars, my position is that if no school was offering Jake/Sam a scholarship than why was/is it necessary for us to? You seam to have all the answers, but keep avoiding that one. You keep trying to make it a recruiting service and evaluation debate, but I'm making it a common sense debate.

Certainly haven't been avoiding that point. It just doesn't hold much weight to me.

You see no other schools offering all the time at all programs. When kids commit early, especially instate kids, other schools don't waste time trying to recruit the kid away. I mean in the Cotton example, their father will practically be their position coach. Why would the Cotton's entertain another scholarship and why would a school waste time recruiting them? Happens every single year with early instate commits at any major program.

I'm on board with what kchusker_chris said.

Well, now that I know common sense doesn't hold much weight with you, we can move on (dont take that the wrong way). I appreciate the debate and actually agree with you on your reasoning as to why Jake/Sam weren't offered scholarships by other schools, but I also hold firm on my position that it wasn't necessary for us to either. In my opinion Jake and Sam would have been perfect preffered walk on candidates.

 

[RockyMountainOySker]

No, that's not my position at all. My position has nothing to do with stars, my position is that if no school was offering Jake/Sam a scholarship than why was/is it necessary for us to? You seam to have all the answers, but keep avoiding that one. You keep trying to make it a recruiting service and evaluation debate, but I'm making it a common sense debate.

Certainly haven't been avoiding that point. It just doesn't hold much weight to me.

You see no other schools offering all the time at all programs. When kids commit early, especially instate kids, other schools don't waste time trying to recruit the kid away. I mean in the Cotton example, their father will practically be their position coach. Why would the Cotton's entertain another scholarship and why would a school waste time recruiting them? Happens every single year with early instate commits at any major program.

I'm on board with what kchusker_chris said.

Well, now that I know common sense doesn't hold much weight with you, we can move on (dont take that the wrong way). I appreciate the debate and actually agree with you on your reasoning as to why Jake/Sam weren't offered scholarships by other schools, but I also hold firm on my position that it wasn't necessary for us to either. In my opinion Jake and Sam would have been perfect preffered walk on candidates.

If they would have accepted a walk on spot, sure. That's why I said I agreed with kchusker_chris's point...one that you never articulated.

And your common sense comment...how does this have anything to do with common sense? Because other schools didn't offer them so in common sense, we shouldn't have either? You just said you agreed with me on why they didn't get other schollies the sentence after. That is a complete contradiction.

 

[Redtillimdead]

Sam shouldn't have gotten an offer. Just an opp. To walk on. Same with his brothers! Ben and Jake are solid but not spectacular players and the fact that our O-line struggled and we have no significant playmakers at tight end on the roster blurrs your vision to the this fact that we are down at those positions. If we had a dominant Oline would Jake be on the 2 deep. If we had a more Balanced offensive attack to where we would attract high profile tight ends would ben be much more than an early down or jumbo set blocker. Vision being blurred by mediocrity. Makes the minimal strides of barely above average players seem like leaps and bounds when it's the lack of a significant gap between said players and their star laden counterparts that is the most telling of our dire situation!!

 

[kchusker_chris]

No, that's not my position at all. My position has nothing to do with stars, my position is that if no school was offering Jake/Sam a scholarship than why was/is it necessary for us to? You seam to have all the answers, but keep avoiding that one. You keep trying to make it a recruiting service and evaluation debate, but I'm making it a common sense debate.

It's not your position?

I actually think his position is that sam/jake would have walked-on if we'd have asked.

Isn't that what you just said?

Whether they end up all-americans or busts is irrelevant

wouldn't that be me esssentially saying this has nothing to do w/ evaluation?

I take it back...you have no real position. You're just here to b!^@h about Cotton(s).

 

[HuskerT]

Sam shouldn't have gotten an offer. Just an opp. To walk on. Same with his brothers! Ben and Jake are solid but not spectacular players and the fact that our O-line struggled and we have no significant playmakers at tight end on the roster blurrs your vision to the this fact that we are down at those positions. If we had a dominant Oline would Jake be on the 2 deep. If we had a more Balanced offensive attack to where we would attract high profile tight ends would ben be much more than an early down or jumbo set blocker. Vision being blurred by mediocrity. Makes the minimal strides of barely above average players seem like leaps and bounds when it's the lack of a significant gap between said players and their star laden counterparts that is the most telling of our dire situation!!

Finally, somebody gets it!

 

[RockyMountainOySker]

Sam shouldn't have gotten an offer. Just an opp. To walk on. Same with his brothers! Ben and Jake are solid but not spectacular players and the fact that our O-line struggled and we have no significant playmakers at tight end on the roster blurrs your vision to the this fact that we are down at those positions. If we had a dominant Oline would Jake be on the 2 deep. If we had a more Balanced offensive attack to where we would attract high profile tight ends would ben be much more than an early down or jumbo set blocker. Vision being blurred by mediocrity. Makes the minimal strides of barely above average players seem like leaps and bounds when it's the lack of a significant gap between said players and their star laden counterparts that is the most telling of our dire situation!!

So our focus on a good rushing offense combined with replacing multiple starters at guard on the Oline means the 2 guys that stepped up to fill these voids shouldn't have gotten scholarships? And Ben not being good enough...I'll bet you right now Ben plays on Sundays.

For the 10th time, I'm all for all the Cotton's accepting walk on spots but that is a hypothetical that we know nothing about. Maybe we told them they can walk on and they said screw that...so we offered scholarships. And guess what, both contribute.

The team had 1 mediocre year in a brand new conference, playing teams we've never seen before. Heck, were given a heck of a bowl match up as well. Number 9 vs. number 20. We were the better team that day until a hail mary at the end of the first half changed the game. Shore up some dumb mistakes and we win that ball game.

 

[NoLongerN]

Sam shouldn't have gotten an offer. Just an opp. To walk on. Same with his brothers! Ben and Jake are solid but not spectacular players and the fact that our O-line struggled and we have no significant playmakers at tight end on the roster blurrs your vision to the this fact that we are down at those positions. If we had a dominant Oline would Jake be on the 2 deep. If we had a more Balanced offensive attack to where we would attract high profile tight ends would ben be much more than an early down or jumbo set blocker. Vision being blurred by mediocrity. Makes the minimal strides of barely above average players seem like leaps and bounds when it's the lack of a significant gap between said players and their star laden counterparts that is the most telling of our dire situation!!

Finally, somebody gets it!

Sorry Mr. Shoff, but I got to ask these guys a question in the middle of your thread ... so guys, who are these TE's that we turned away to take Cotton? I just don't recall and my lack of experience seems to be dwarfed by yours ... can you tell me who these targets were that we turned away. I agree, if we turned away four star TE's or even a higher rate three star ... but who are they. Do some research for me and let me know.

 

[RockyMountainOySker]

Let me ask you another question, what happens if we didn't offer Ben, Jake, and Sam scholarships and they chose to play ball somewhere else???

Now our best TE and a redshirt freshman guard on the two deep, not even on the roster. I'm sure as heck glad they are right where they are.

 

[Redtillimdead]

No way he gets drafted. Might catch on somewhere as a FA and then fades to black. Best chance. Special teams or long snapper or some obscure position like holding the 3rd team tight ends helmet until he's needed!

 

[Redtillimdead]

Let me ask you another question, what if we don't offer Ben, Jake, and Sam scholarships and they choose to play ball somewhere else???

Now our best TE and a redshirt freshman guard on the two deep, not even on the roster. I'm sure as heck glad they are right where they are.

This statement highlights how we've missed on some recruits or were wrong about others. The cottons if our highly recruited guys were panning out or weren't injured would be toiling away as 3rd or 4th string guys where most walk ons should be.