P&R bullsh#t that clogs up the Dbag thread

Who gives a flying f#*k how many people were at the Trump innaguration?
Donald Trump
Somehow I doubt that
Let's see if we can verify this fact.

Here's an article from the New York Times that states Trump attacked the press about the numbers they reported.

In a visit to the Central Intelligence Agency intended to showcase his support for the intelligence community, Mr. Trump ignored his own repeated public statements criticizing the intelligence community, a group he compared to Nazis just over a week ago.

He also called journalists “among the most dishonest human beings on earth,” and he said that up to 1.5 million people had attended his inauguration, a claim that photographs disproved.

Later, at the White House, he dispatched Sean Spicer, the press secretary, to the briefing room in the West Wing, where Mr. Spicer scolded reporters and made a series of false statements.

He said news organizations had deliberately misstated the size of the crowd at Mr. Trump’s inauguration on Friday in an attempt to sow divisions at a time when Mr. Trump was trying to unify the country, warning that the new administration would hold them to account.
Now, the NYT is often labeled "too liberal" to use as a source, so let's cross-check that allegation.

Here's an article from Yahoo News discussing the White House's anger over reporting on crowd sizes:

In striking comments, White House press secretary Sean Spicer used his first official statement on Saturday to castigate the media for what he claimed was “deliberately false reporting,” including reporting on the attendance at President Trump’s inauguration.

Spicer was particularly incensed about photos shared on social media by members of the press comparing the crowd at Trump’s ceremony with those at inaugurations past.

Despite the clear visual difference between the two inauguration crowds, Spicer declared that Trump had the largest crowd size in history.

“This was the largest audience to ever witness an inauguration, period, both in person and around the globe,” he said. “Even the New York Times printed a photograph … in their paper, which showed the full extent of the support, depth, and crowd and intensity that existed. These attempts to lessen the enthusiasm of the inauguration are shameful and wrong.”
But let's get a third source, just to be sure. This time we'll check a known Conservative outlet, Fox News.

FACT CHECK: Trump overstates crowd size at inaugural
WASHINGTON – President Donald Trump's speech Saturday at the headquarters of the Central Intelligence Agency turned into the latest battle in, as he put it, his "running war with the media." He had two central complaints: that the media misrepresented the size of the crowd at his inauguration and that it was incorrectly reported a bust of Martin Luther King Jr. was removed from the Oval Office. A look at those assertions:

TRUMP: "I made a speech. I looked out. The field was — it looked like a million, a million and a half people."

The president went on to say that one network "said we drew 250,000 people. Now that's not bad. But it's a lie." He then claimed that were 250,000 right by the stage and the "rest of the, you know, 20-block area, all the way back to the Washington Monument was packed."

"So we caught them," said Trump. "And we caught them in a beauty. And I think they're going to pay a big price."

THE FACTS: Trump is wrong. Photos of the National Mall from his inauguration make clear that the crowd did not extend to the Washington Monument. Large swaths of empty space are visible on the Mall.
So there's three different articles from three different sources, one liberal, one neutral, one conservative, that all say the same thing.

We can pretty easily, therefore, state that "Donald Trump gave a flying f#*k how many people were at the inauguration" is a fact.

Pretty easy.

 
So, I'm curious Redux.

You seem averse to media, which is understandable. There is implicit bias, sometimes almost none, sometimes a little, sometimes a lot, in any reporting. I've always thought it was best to try to read stuff from a variety of reputable sources to try to get a well-rounded view and hack through the bias as best we can. Just because there is bias in something doesn't mean it's useless if we can see through it.

But fact is fact.

What do you personally use to get info on something? Is it just conversations with other people? Do you have a particular outlet you trust? I'm just trying to figure out how you get informed on stuff you want to learn about.
If I feel strongly enough to look into a hot topic I tend to discuss it with people I know first. I know enough people that swing majorly both ways that I can come up with an unbiased opinion from that. Then I will read up on the matter. I don't have one specific location for learning information.

I guess you could say I have madsive trust issues with believing the media and internet.

 
"Massive trust issues with the media" is exactly how a totalitarian government would want you to behave. They've cultivated that belief in people, on purpose. It's up to each of us to resist that.

 
Who gives a flying f#*k how many people were at the Trump innaguration?
Donald Trump
Somehow I doubt that
Let's see if we can verify this fact.Here's an article from the New York Times that states Trump attacked the press about the numbers they reported.

In a visit to the Central Intelligence Agency intended to showcase his support for the intelligence community, Mr. Trump ignored his own repeated public statements criticizing the intelligence community, a group he compared to Nazis just over a week ago.

He also called journalists “among the most dishonest human beings on earth,” and he said that up to 1.5 million people had attended his inauguration, a claim that photographs disproved.

Later, at the White House, he dispatched Sean Spicer, the press secretary, to the briefing room in the West Wing, where Mr. Spicer scolded reporters and made a series of false statements.

He said news organizations had deliberately misstated the size of the crowd at Mr. Trump’s inauguration on Friday in an attempt to sow divisions at a time when Mr. Trump was trying to unify the country, warning that the new administration would hold them to account.
Now, the NYT is often labeled "too liberal" to use as a source, so let's cross-check that allegation.

Here's an article from Yahoo News discussing the White House's anger over reporting on crowd sizes:

In striking comments, White House press secretary Sean Spicer used his first official statement on Saturday to castigate the media for what he claimed was “deliberately false reporting,” including reporting on the attendance at President Trump’s inauguration.

Spicer was particularly incensed about photos shared on social media by members of the press comparing the crowd at Trump’s ceremony with those at inaugurations past.

Despite the clear visual difference between the two inauguration crowds, Spicer declared that Trump had the largest crowd size in history.

“This was the largest audience to ever witness an inauguration, period, both in person and around the globe,” he said. “Even the New York Times printed a photograph … in their paper, which showed the full extent of the support, depth, and crowd and intensity that existed. These attempts to lessen the enthusiasm of the inauguration are shameful and wrong.”
But let's get a third source, just to be sure. This time we'll check a known Conservative outlet, Fox News.

FACT CHECK: Trump overstates crowd size at inaugural

WASHINGTON – President Donald Trump's speech Saturday at the headquarters of the Central Intelligence Agency turned into the latest battle in, as he put it, his "running war with the media." He had two central complaints: that the media misrepresented the size of the crowd at his inauguration and that it was incorrectly reported a bust of Martin Luther King Jr. was removed from the Oval Office. A look at those assertions:

TRUMP: "I made a speech. I looked out. The field was — it looked like a million, a million and a half people."

The president went on to say that one network "said we drew 250,000 people. Now that's not bad. But it's a lie." He then claimed that were 250,000 right by the stage and the "rest of the, you know, 20-block area, all the way back to the Washington Monument was packed."

"So we caught them," said Trump. "And we caught them in a beauty. And I think they're going to pay a big price."

THE FACTS: Trump is wrong. Photos of the National Mall from his inauguration make clear that the crowd did not extend to the Washington Monument. Large swaths of empty space are visible on the Mall.
So there's three different articles from three different sources, one liberal, one neutral, one conservative, that all say the same thing.

We can pretty easily, therefore, state that "Donald Trump gave a flying f#*k how many people were at the inauguration" is a fact.

Pretty easy.
Congrats? I...guess? I personally don't care about his rally numbers. Deep down, do you think he cares? Does it matter? Why is this something we should care about.

 
Yes, I think Trump cares very, very much. So much, in fact, that he'd make his Press Secretary stand in front of the White House Press Corps and disseminate bald-faced lies.

This is patently obvious to anyone who's been watching Trump for, say, the past two or three decades. This is what he cares about.

 
Like I said, congrats. Your informed research knows no limits. You proved that Donald Trump cares about....stuff.

Now, why is it important?

 
Like I said, congrats. Your informed research knows no limits. You proved that Donald Trump cares about....stuff.

Now, why is it important?
Because in a time where the president and his staff are going to try to bullsh#t their way through, facts are more crucial than ever.

The best defense against tyranny is an informed electorate.

EDIT - and yes, I know I butchered that quote, before anyone calls me on it. Here's the actual line:

A well informed citizenry is the best defense against tyranny.

- Thomas Jefferson

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Like I said, congrats. Your informed research knows no limits. You proved that Donald Trump cares about....stuff.Now, why is it important?
Because in a time where the president and his staff are going to try to bullsh#t their way through, facts are more crucial than ever. The best defense against tyranny is an informed electorate. EDIT - and yes, I know I butchered that quote, before anyone calls me on it. Here's the actual line:A well informed citizenry is the best defense against tyranny.- Thomas Jefferson
dont-believe-everything-you-see-on-the-internet.jpg

Sorry, had to be done.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I'll just put it out there. Personally, I don't think it makes two squirts of piss who gets elected president. The real powers behind this country aren't elected by the people. The whole election process is nothing more than a way of keeping citizens divided and distracted from the fact we have no say in how this country is run. They pick the candidates and we dance like monkeys arguing about Hillary being a criminal and Trump being a racist/sexist.

The real governing bodies behind the United States are not elected officials, they are chosen by themselves. I have no facts to base these claims off. I don't spend hours on anonymous websites. These are just things I believe to be true based off my perception of our government and country.

Do with that what you will. Poke holes in it and offer information all you want, I'm pretty open minded.

 
I'll just put it out there. Personally, I don't think it makes two squirts of piss who gets elected president. The real powers behind this country aren't elected by the people. The whole election process is nothing more than a way of keeping citizens divided and distracted from the fact we have no say in how this country is run. They pick the candidates and we dance like monkeys arguing about Hillary being a criminal and Trump being a racist/sexist.

The real governing bodies behind the United States are not elected officials, they are chosen by themselves. I have no facts to base these claims off. I don't spend hours on anonymous websites. These are just things I believe to be true based off my perception of our government and country.

Do with that what you will. Poke holes in it and offer information all you want, I'm pretty open minded.
I've heard your argument before, although I'm not quite as pessimistic about out democracy as you, there is probably some truth to it. I've told a few friends that think Trump is here to save their asses "If you were a f'ing' loser the past 8 years, you'll be a f'ing' loser in four more"..... So, yes. I also believe the President has little impact on our lives, and what we'll achieve in them.

 
When our government was in it's infancy I'm sure it did infact work as we today think it still does. But as time progressed, technolgical advancements were made, population increased and life itself adapted to the changing world around it so too did the government.

Why does the Presidents stance on so many key issues change once they are sworn in? Because of the information they learn once it's official. It's why the President ages 3x as fast, they learn all the dirty secrets and inner workings of the government. Quite a burden to take in at once.

 
I'll just put it out there. Personally, I don't think it makes two squirts of piss who gets elected president. The real powers behind this country aren't elected by the people. The whole election process is nothing more than a way of keeping citizens divided and distracted from the fact we have no say in how this country is run. They pick the candidates and we dance like monkeys arguing about Hillary being a criminal and Trump being a racist/sexist.

The real governing bodies behind the United States are not elected officials, they are chosen by themselves. I have no facts to base these claims off. I don't spend hours on anonymous websites. These are just things I believe to be true based off my perception of our government and country.

Do with that what you will. Poke holes in it and offer information all you want, I'm pretty open minded.
I agree. The President doesn't have near the power people would like to believe. The Rothschild family basically runs the world.

 
The problem with "fact checking" is that the internet has made it incredibly easy to find facts that support both sides of a debate. It's fact checking "fact checks" that is actually difficult and not usually worth the effort.
This is a lie you've been told by people who don't want you to check facts. It isn't difficult at all. Reputable sources are easy to find.
Theres really very few reputable sources around any more. Every one has their own bias and leans. Unreadable and unwatchable stuff.
This is another copout. People seem to operate under the notion that news was once perfect or infallible. That's never been the case. Stick with the news sources who hire real journalists and fact check them amongst one another.

If someone can't do that then they simply choose to be uninformed, and as an American, that's a pretty sh**ty approach to life.

Defamation, libel and slander are still very real things the real media outlets have to worry about. Maybe more people should consider that before they start suggesting some or even most of what an entity publishes is "fake."

 
The notion that we have to research the news to find the news that's factual is pretty telling.

And "fake" is am extreme term. I would use the phrase "convenient". Most major media still put out real news (with obvious bias). It's the stories that become major stories that are being manipulated or used. We have multiple channels that offer news, and none of them hide which way their bias swings. That's nice for those of us still needing that guidance and want to be affiliated with one party.

 
Back
Top