QB Recruiting, Development, and Play Under Bo/Beck vs Riley/Langsdorf

[cg_8]

The bolded answers my negativity towards Beck. He basically had Ganz around to be the QB coach.

Perhaps Ganz shouldn't have been put in that position. Ganz never ran the type of offense Beck ran. He may have had a great grasp of it, but his understanding of the game was from 2 years of experience playing college ball and being a graduate assistant.

Blame Bo for putting him in that position and trusting Ganz. I'd hate to say anything bad about Ganz, because he played about as well as you want a QB to play here at Nebraska. But truth be told, Bo put too much trust in the guy, and now he's just spouting off stories about it. Meanwhile, we have a guy that was hired as a QB coach for a QB that is arguably seen as an elite QB (I don't think Eli is elite, but he is at the very least, one of the better QB's in the league). Has Ganz found a job yet?

You can put part of that on Beck too for allowing it to happen. That might be inexperience on his part too. This was Beck's first go at running an offense his way, and he may not have had the best way of managing it. That includes how he communicates and coaches his QB's.

I remember him talking about Martinez in 2011 and showing film of Martinez's bad habits during the season. One play after the next, just spouting how poor the footing is, how his timing could have been better, etc. I was watching and saying to myself "Why didn't you immediately address these issues? Why didn't you spend some time addressing this stuff?" I get they only have so many hours, but Beck had an understanding of what it took to make Martinez better, and it seemed like, he didn't really do anything about it.

I have a feeling that Langsdorf isn't going to just let those things fly.

 

[dylan]

Dylan, I'm a little surprised by those numbers and don't think they change the reality that we did not have very good quarterbacking at Nebraska under Bo, despite having as much WR and TE talent as we have had here in decades.

Whether it was turnovers, pocket presence, or just inaccuracy, QB play left a bit to be desired.

Sharp QB play (i.e, not just good running) would go a long way into getting to the next level. Though, short of extraordinary QB play, it's no guarantee either. Still it is pretty important. A lot easier to land those rare talents when you have coaches with a good reputation for developing it.

I think the numbers illustrate a couple of things. One is that Taylor's struggles as a passer were overblown. He certainly wasn't Joe Montana (and at times not even Joe Mantegna), but he generally put up acceptable passing numbers, particularly when he was healthy enough to provide a running threat as well. The other thing the numbers show is that expectations of drastically improved QB play under the new staff are largely based upon hope and not on the staff's previous results.
As I brought up above, there is reason to hope that having the prestige to land more talented recruits (and to surround them with more talent) will allow greater results. But it is just that, hope. The fact that true sophomore Tommy put up better pass efficiency numbers than Riley's senior QB last year is concerning, because while Tommy did have some good passing performances, he often struggled badly.

 

[zoogs]

I have the opposite conclusion -- that numbers clearly don't tell the whole story

But we shall see! In the end I suppose we won't really care about how good the guys really are as quarterbacks. Only about the wins.

 

[dylan]

I agree that wins are the bottom line, but you've gotta be pretty dang good everywhere else to win without good QB play. And I also agree that numbers don't tell the whole story, but it's hard to ignore previous results when setting expectations for the future.

Tommy is still young and has the arm, the confidence and the work ethic to continue improving. Let's hope the new staff can help make that happen.

 

[papersun87]

For lolz here are Eli Manning's numbers the year before Langsdorf coached him and during:

2013: 317 of 551 (57.5%), 3818 yards, 18 TDs, 27 INTs, 6.9 per attempt, sacked 39 times

2014: 379 of 601 (63.1%), 4410 yards, 30 TDs, 14 INTs, 7.3 per attempt, sacked 28 times

So, from his worst season to one of his best (and his career high completion percentage). Obviously Odell Beckham Jr. helps.

 

[Redux]

For me, it's simple really. The old staff was good at findinging and developing one QB into what they wanted, not what they needed. When he went down with an injury, our offense struggled to adjust.

The new staff sounds like they have a good history of developing sound fundamentals and good decision making behind a solid arm. Awesome, especially if we can field a great Running Back.

 

[Hedley Lamarr]

I meant to post this but I read it when the board was down. This seems to be a good thread to put it in.

Beck was by far not the biggest problem on this staff the last few years.

LINK

LINK

It really is baffling when you think about our inability to stop the run. However when you look closely you see an inexperienced defensive staff that offered no schematic help to Bo. I feel 100x more confident in this staffs ability to adapt defensively. We have guys from all different levels on our d staff as well as 3 DCs. There will be nothing thrown at us that we haven't seen.

 

[BigRedBuster]

I meant to post this but I read it when the board was down. This seems to be a good thread to put it in.

Beck was by far not the biggest problem on this staff the last few years.

LINK

LINK

It really is baffling when you think about our inability to stop the run. However when you look closely you see an inexperienced defensive staff that offered no schematic help to Bo. I feel 100x more confident in this staffs ability to adapt defensively. We have guys from all different levels on our d staff as well as 3 DCs. There will be nothing thrown at us that we haven't seen.

Completely agree.

 

[BigRedBuster]

Ummm....where did my original post go?

 

[Omaha_Style]

And yet, in four out of the last five seasons, Taylor and Tommy put up equal or better passing efficiency numbers than OSU's NFL QB factory.

I am hopeful that access to better talents at NU, like this kid hopefully (and especially in supporting cast), will allow Riley and company to improve their QB results. I just find the bashing of the old staff unnecessary and strange given the clear track records.

Here are the numbers. The efficiency numbers seem pretty similar. The thing that sticks out to me is the completion percentage. OSU/Mannion is night and day ahead of TA.

2014

Armstrong 133.0 (53.3% completion)

Mannion 128.3 (62.3%)

2013

3 Headed Monster 129.4 (57.7%) / Armstrong 124.3 (51.9%)

Mannion 146.5 (66.3%)

2012

Martinez 141.6 (62.0%) - 1st Team All B1G

Mannion 138.8 (64.7%)

2011

Martinez 126.5 (56.3%)

Mannion 127.1 (64.5%)

2010

Martinez 138.8 (59.2%)

Katz 126.4 (60.0%)

I will add a few more stats to this.

Mannion:

Yr Pass Att. TDs Ints

2011 473 16 18

2012 309 15 13

2013 603 37 15

2014 453 15 8

1838 83 54

Taylor:

2011 288 13 8

2012 368 23 12

2013(4) 110 10 2

766 46 22

Tommy:

2013(9) 113 9 8

2014 345 22 12

458 31 20

This is what I wanted to look at. Then I realized that numbers don't tell the whole story about a QB - dropped passes, leaky O-line, injuries etc. I guess you have to look at game film to see if freshman mistakes are eliminated by time he is a senior, or is he doing the same dumb stuff and not learning.

I agree this is to tough to compare between the two schoold. It's attributed to WR talent, Offensive line play. Heck the calibure of defenses come into play. I think this is something you have to wait and see how much our efficiency increases, decreases or stays the same this year. I am excited to see if Armstrong comes out like a lion this year or not.

 

[Scratchtown]

And yet, in four out of the last five seasons, Taylor and Tommy put up equal or better passing efficiency numbers than OSU's NFL QB factory.

I am hopeful that access to better talents at NU, like this kid hopefully (and especially in supporting cast), will allow Riley and company to improve their QB results. I just find the bashing of the old staff unnecessary and strange given the clear track records.

Oh good lord, Martinez had to go else where to get his passing mechanics better. That's not a product of Beck.

Spin it the way you want, but I've read enough from you that I think you don't like this hire and must be Pelini relative or something the way you carry on about the previous staff.

 

[Landlord]

Oh good lord, Martinez had to go else where to get his passing mechanics better. That's not a product of Beck.

This is the biggest red herring argument available. This is no indictment, and this is no rare thing. This is the regular landscape of D1 quarterbacking.

Cam Newton, Johnny Manziel, Jameis Winston, Andrew Luck, and tons of others have all gotten private coaching in their offseasons.

 

[desertshox]

Oh good lord, Martinez had to go else where to get his passing mechanics better. That's not a product of Beck.

This is the biggest red herring argument available. This is no indictment, and this is no rare thing. This is the regular landscape of D1 quarterbacking.

Cam Newton, Johnny Manziel, Jameis Winston, Andrew Luck, and tons of others have all gotten private coaching in their offseasons.

they need to increase the number of coaches a staff can have and allow more time with the coaches in the offseason.

 

[True2tRA]

Oh good lord, Martinez had to go else where to get his passing mechanics better. That's not a product of Beck.

This is the biggest red herring argument available. This is no indictment, and this is no rare thing. This is the regular landscape of D1 quarterbacking.

Cam Newton, Johnny Manziel, Jameis Winston, Andrew Luck, and tons of others have all gotten private coaching in their offseasons.

Or you can hire one onto your staff that has worked with NFL QB's.

You're right LOMS, a lot of guys have gone elsewhere to get QB coaching. A lot of guys haven't, as well.

I like what we've done in hiring a guy like Langsdorf. Tommy still goes elsewhere to workout with Brett Favre I believe? It's still a great tool to have a real QB coach on hand throughout the season.

You can't substitute the teaching you'll get when your QB coach is right there in the moment day to day and during the game.

Is Langsdorf a skybox or sideline guy?

 

[Landlord]

Is Langsdorf a skybox or sideline guy?

He said in an interview that he hasn't decided yet.