Racism - It's a real thing.

9 hours ago, Lorewarn said:





Not to try and steer the conversation entirely this way (more just trying to keep it light), but I've seen a number of instances that were pretty hilarious, or at least didn't receive any blowback, but only because the joke is very specifically on the ignorance and idiocy of (white) folks who would actually use the word.

Content warning for the n-word

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I should've been more specific in that I wasn't really talking about examples of the N word being used in some type of movie or pop culture format. That's not really in the same vein as what we've been talking about IMO. I was talking about someone using the word in a more real life situation.

 
Redux said:
As to the bolded, it sounds a lot like what Ulty was implying.  Literally everyone makes mistakes, bad decisions, poor judgment etc.  Rogan just has a massive audience, so he can actually be canceled.  And I'm sorry but you seem to be looking at it backwards to how I am.  I am looking at this as WHY is he being canceled and it stems from unpopular opinion sharing, not old insensitive slur usage.  He said things people don't agree with, so people dug up racist looking s#!t.  That's the why.  That doesn't make him innocent, but sharing unpopular opinions and ideas shouldn't turn into racism, as it does too often because it's an easy thing to point to to get someone silenced.
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I don't know if I'm arguing or looking at this in the way you think I am.

My point this entire time has been that Rogan is not a victim. He said things he shouldn't have said and that led down a rabbit hole of people finding other things he shouldn't have said. And he has admitted he shouldn't have said them and that he was wrong:

"I know that to most people, there's no context where a White person is ever allowed to say that, never mind publicly on a podcast,

and I agree with that," he said.
And: "Whenever you're in a situation where you have to say, 'I'm not racist,' you f**ked up, and I clearly have f**ked up."
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So, I don't know why you're casting him as some cancel culture casualty. I don't necessarily think he's a racist or that he should be "canceled", but he's certainly prone to being an imbecile. And again, we're in this weird place of some people seemingly finding the fact that he's under pressure more problematic than the stuff he actually said. This isn't just a simple issue of him saying "unpopular things." It's largely about him saying a) inaccurate things and b) using objectively insensitive, racist language.

 
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You're essentially saying the backlash and racist accusations are fine because he's had guests on and had discussions where things you don't agree with were said.  I'm not asking for you to rethink a stance on anything.  But having the past dug up to paint him as a racist simply because he subscribes to a different narrative isn't okay.

 
Enhance said:
So, I don't know why you're casting him as some cancel culture casualty. I don't necessarily think he's a racist or that he should be "canceled", but he's certainly prone to being an imbecile. And again, we're in this weird place of some people seemingly finding the fact that he's under pressure more problematic than the stuff he actually said. This isn't just a simple issue of him saying "unpopular things." It's largely about him saying a) inaccurate things and b) using objectively insensitive, racist language.
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He's less imbecile and more irresponsible. He's all about ratings - which is his business, and understandable. 

He's good at interviewing people. He is loose with the truth, in favor of ratings, and that's where he's gotten pushback.

He's certainly not being "canceled," which is the kneejerk reaction whenever someone we like receives that pushback. Some artists chose not to be associated with the platform he's using to disseminate his ideas and they're getting reactionary pushback from Rogan's fans. 

Funny how that's not seen as "canceling" Neil Young. 

 
knapplc said:
He's less imbecile and more irresponsible. He's all about ratings - which is his business, and understandable. 

He's good at interviewing people. He is loose with the truth, in favor of ratings, and that's where he's gotten pushback.

He's certainly not being "canceled," which is the kneejerk reaction whenever someone we like receives that pushback. Some artists chose not to be associated with the platform he's using to disseminate his ideas and they're getting reactionary pushback from Rogan's fans. 

Funny how that's not seen as "canceling" Neil Young. 
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Exactly.

It is like when he hosted Fear Factor...never once did I think "Wait, maybe I should also eat a horse penis since this dude is challenging these people to eat one while lying in a box filled with rats"

 
Redux said:
Kaepernick wanted notoriety because he was never going to be an NFL superstar, he was serviceable.  So he turned his career into an agenda, and it worked.  I don't like the kneeling thing, but I've also gone on record to say if you want to do it go for it.  Better than rioting.  But let's not pretend Kaepernick was doing anything without his own interests as the top priority.

Rogan is doing the same thing he's always done, having honest conversations with people more knowledgeable than he is from both sides of the political spectrum.  And asking honest questions terrifies people.  The guy eat sleeps and breathes health and fitness, he promotes living a healthy lifestyle above all else.  And people are trying to silence him because of it by digging up anything they can from his past.
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Just to set the record straight, Colin Kaepernick actually WAS an NFL superstar, having led his team to the Super Bowl, putting up historic rushing & receiving totals, winning the 2013 Espy Award for Breakthrough athlete (beating Mike Trout), and having the best-selling jersey in the entire NFL.

You are right that he discovered racial politics only after he was replaced by Blaine Frikkin Gabbert, when a huge exodus of talent and coaching left the 49ers floundering. (they did reinstate him upon realizing he was much better than Gabbert, a QB who was still drawing an NFL paycheck this season). So Colin wasn't risking quite as much when he took his controversial knee. But as with many things in life, Colin's inspiration was a hot girlfriend who was active in racial politics, who appears to have revolutionized him overnight.  Kaepernick had a good friend in the military and consulted with him on his plan to sit out the national anthem. The friend recommended kneeling instead, and gave Kaepernick his blessing. Less reported are the many military vets who didn't freak out about this, and defended both Kaepernick's right and purpose. 

So when you accuse Colin Kaepernick of putting his own interests as top priority......well who doesn't? It's still noteworthy that his own interests have been social justice for others not nearly as privileged, and he put his own money where his mouth is, personally contributing $1million plus to lesser known civil rights organizations, and making Nike do the same in order to retain his services. 

I'm also pretty forgiving of Rogan -- not that he seems unwilling to see vaccines as a logical component of health & fitness -- but his right to lead conversations, be wrong, and take heat for it.  Still, the racial comments folks dug up about Rogan were pretty cringy, and to his credit Joe's apology seemed genuinely contrite. 

 
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teachercd said:
Exactly.

It is like when he hosted Fear Factor...never once did I think "Wait, maybe I should also eat a horse penis since this dude is challenging these people to eat one while lying in a box filled with rats"
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True, but that was not the intent of that show.

On the podcast, he's speaking to an audience from a position of authority, and influenceable people will follow what he says. That's why he bears a greater burden of responsibility for his content than from Fear Factor. 

In much the same way the guy in the White House has a responsibility not to tell people to take chloroquine. Most of us are smart enough to know not to take medical advice from that guy. Unfortunately some aren't, and a man died. 

With great power comes great responsibility.

- Mark Twain

 
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knapplc said:
He's less imbecile and more irresponsible. He's all about ratings - which is his business, and understandable. 

He's good at interviewing people. He is loose with the truth, in favor of ratings, and that's where he's gotten pushback.

He's certainly not being "canceled," which is the kneejerk reaction whenever someone we like receives that pushback. Some artists chose not to be associated with the platform he's using to disseminate his ideas and they're getting reactionary pushback from Rogan's fans. 

Funny how that's not seen as "canceling" Neil Young. 
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You're pushing hard that Joe cares more about ratings than honesty.  That's a warped perspective but you're welcome to it.

Neil canceled himself from Spotify, literally.  If Neil wants to not be on the platform and requests his own removal, that's a far cry from having public outrage guilt you into leaving/removing yourself.

 
I think self-reliance and self-responsibility and self-accountability will help you as a parent, a teacher, as a citizen as a friend.

Henry Rollins

He also has a fun quote about pizza fixing everything...

 
knapplc said:
True, but that was not the intent of that show.

On the podcast, he's speaking to an audience from a position of authority, and influenceable people will follow what he says. That's why he bears a greater burden of responsibility for his content than from Fear Factor. 

In much the same way the guy in the White House has a responsibility not to tell people to take chloroquine. Most of us are smart enough to know not to take medical advice from that guy. Unfortunately some aren't, and a man died. 

With great power comes great responsibility.

- Mark Twain
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Love this one.

 
teachercd said:
Another great one

If you're listening to a rock star in order to get your information on who to vote for, you're a bigger moron than they are.

Alice Cooper
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The point of Rogan's show is that he's giving you the honest truth. People have posted segments of his show right here in this forum as truthful and honest.

It's a bit late to come back and say he's only there for entertainment. 

 
knapplc said:
The point of Rogan's show is that he's giving you the honest truth. People have posted segments of his show right here in this forum as truthful and honest.

It's a bit late to come back and say he's only there for entertainment. 
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We (you and I) decide who we gets power.  I have never once listened to Rogan (I have only heard his podcast like 3 times, once with Rob Lowe and once with Doogie Howser, I think?) and ever thought anything other than "This will kill 15 minutes".  

I get what you are saying.  But that is not how I am wired.  

 
Enhance said:
I wasn't really talking about examples of the N word being used in some type of movie or pop culture format. That's not really in the same vein as what we've been talking about IMO. I was talking about someone using the word in a more real life situation.
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At best Rogan is 50/50 "real life" compared to pop culture format.

knapplc said:
On the podcast, he's speaking to an audience from a position of authority
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He doesn't present himself as such, and often disclaims that he ISN'T an authority, so if that happens that is 100% the burden of responsibility on the listener.

knapplc said:
In much the same way the guy in the White House has a responsibility not to tell people to take chloroquine.
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I.... don't think a stand up comedian/MMA fighter with a podcast has anything even close to responsibility "in the same way" as an elected government official who has sworn an oath. 

knapplc said:
The point of Rogan's show is that he's giving you the honest truth. People have posted segments of his show right here in this forum as truthful and honest.

It's a bit late to come back and say he's only there for entertainment. 
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The spirit of being truthful in regards to who you are and where you're at is a very different thing than truth as a set of objective material facts. I don't think people find Rogan truthful in the sense of only regurgitating all correct information - if they do, again, that's on them.

Rogan's truth and honesty comes in his lack of lying to himself and to his audience, not in being an expert or being right. It's an obvious contrast against the purposeful and willful agenda setting of corporate or mainstream gatekept media. 

 
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