Roster flipping

BigPeterJ said:
Its pretty simple.  Look at our last 2 or 3 classes.  They have more talent than anyone else in our division.  You simply cant use talent ad an excuse after next year.
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I'm not convinced we will have ''more talent than anyone else in our division'' or how you would effectively even measure it...  It's not like everybody else just stops recruiting more talent. Minnesnota and Wisky will probably be our measuring sticks for the next few seasons...   Until we get enough depth to get the second string guys more valuable experience/playing time, talent alone won't win as consistently as most of us grew up watching..  I guess I still hope for more MNCs before Football is outlawed.. But either way...Still will enjoy the ride.

 
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HUSKER 37 said:
I'm not sure where you believe we'll ''have more talent than anyone'' in the ''weaker'' division of our conference..Probably more important in any event will be where that talent resides and how we coach them..

Hopefully this won't start another talent vs coaching beer commercial debate. 

tastes great.jpg
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And by ''reside'' I mean what position that ''more talent'' is, position wise.

Dominating line play will usually still beat more talented ''skill talent'', but there seems to be a larger number of exceptions these days.

 
lo country said:
I know a lot of those numbers are inflated with the walkcons, but regardless there are very few dudes on that team that are not Frost's guys.
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Many of whom are small town Nebraska kids who have a vested interest in Nebraska being successful at football.

I know having those types of guys on the team is a point of mockery on this board, but it was the foundation of Tom Osborne's success, at least according to Tom Osborne. 

 
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BigPeterJ said:
Conclusion:

We hardly lose anyone except for our DLine and Lamar Jackson.  And most of our best players will be here for at least 3 more years. We should only get better from here on out.  And 2 years from now we should be pretty good.  Every single position should be better than last year except for our DLine.  And every single position should keep getting better each year for the next 3 years.  The future looks alot brighter friends.
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Good analysis.  

One big issue that has been mentioned a lot I don't see it in this thread.

We have had a major problem of bringing in a top 25 class only to see the top rated players from that class not make it to campus, not pan out, transfer...etc.  So, even though we were signing a top 25 class, we were actually playing with talent more in line with a 35-45 rated class.  And...not developing them very well.

Over the last couple of classes with Frost and Co., it seems like the roster turnover is with players that we tried. But, the best players in the classes seem to be the ones on the field contributing and getting better.  Washington is the obvious example that goes against this.  But, every program is going to have something like that every once in a while.  

 
I am I said:
the hype came because...
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Actually I think the hype came because of UCF year 2. Our fan base knew that expecting to go undefeated in 2019 was unrealistic and so a lot of people then deflated the expectations down to 9-3 which felt like a very reasonable check-down from UCF's undefeated season. But after even just the Colorado game it was apparent that this was obviously way too high given where our offensive line and linebackers were.

Those two units then took turns struggling quite a bit and the result was a 5-7 season. There is far more talent from a recruiting rankings standpoint on this team right now than at Wisconsin. But most of that talent is young.

Also, in my opinion several of Frost's assistants have to step up and do a bit better. This is especially important for special teams coaching heading into 2020.

 
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BigRedBuster said:
Good analysis.  

One big issue that has been mentioned a lot I don't see it in this thread.

We have had a major problem of bringing in a top 25 class only to see the top rated players from that class not make it to campus, not pan out, transfer...etc.  So, even though we were signing a top 25 class, we were actually playing with talent more in line with a 35-45 rated class.  And...not developing them very well.

Over the last couple of classes with Frost and Co., it seems like the roster turnover is with players that we tried. But, the best players in the classes seem to be the ones on the field contributing and getting better.  Washington is the obvious example that goes against this.  But, every program is going to have something like that every once in a while.  
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Again we need to look at the class recruiting ratings with the “skill” players (QBs, RBs, WRs) excluded. It’s the other positions which are the ones that strong teams and programs are built from IMO.  I suspect our 4 star guys are too heavily weighted in the skill spots - this we lose the battles in the trenches (weak run game offense and defense).

Even in the last decade of so called pass oriented offenses, the best teams are the best run related programs.   

 
So if 80% of the roster are "Frost players", and the other 20% have been under his coaching for 3 years, then we shouldn't have to hear anything about "culture" and "not buying in" anymore?

 
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Guy Chamberlin said:
Our most experienced players anchored our defensive line -- two Pelini recruits and a heralded Oklahoma State transfer for Frost. 

They kinda sucked. I don't remember a Husker team getting so little pressure on the quarterback. That included average quarterbacks on unremarkable teams.

Experience can be swell, but great talent shines immediately, and cohesiveness can come quickly. 
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Eh, I don't think this is very accurate.  Khalil Davis was one of the sack leaders in the B1G.  Darrion Daniels was invited to the Senior Bowl, indicating he is likely to get drafted.

In (most) 3-4 defenses - including ours - the defensive linemen aren't supposed to get stats.  They are supposed to eat space and blockers and free up the linebackers to make the plays.  As has been noted often - including by Frost - the defensive line actually played pretty well most of the time.  It was the lack of production from the linebackers that was the biggest issue with the defense.

 
84HuskerLaw said:
Again we need to look at the class recruiting ratings with the “skill” players (QBs, RBs, WRs) excluded. It’s the other positions which are the ones that strong teams and programs are built from IMO.  I suspect our 4 star guys are too heavily weighted in the skill spots - this we lose the battles in the trenches (weak run game offense and defense).

Even in the last decade of so called pass oriented offenses, the best teams are the best run related programs.   
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Well....

In the three classes before Frost, we had 10 O-linemen (.8793 average) and 8 D-Linemen (.8705 average).  One of those didn't make it to campus.

In Frost's three classes, he has brought in 13 O-Linemen (.8825 average) 2 didn't make it to campus.  and 16 D-Linemen (.8738 average).  

So, we are getting more players in the trenches and they are higher rated.

I believe more of our higher rated players will be developed and contribute.  That will be a big difference.

 
Guy Chamberlin said:
Our most experienced players anchored our defensive line -- two Pelini recruits and a heralded Oklahoma State transfer for Frost. 

They kinda sucked. I don't remember a Husker team getting so little pressure on the quarterback. That included average quarterbacks on unremarkable teams.

Experience can be swell, but great talent shines immediately, and cohesiveness can come quickly. 
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Give me Khalil Davis and Darrion Daniels any day. We can win with DL like them. We just didn't surround them with playmaking LBs.

 
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I do know a lot goes into how a HS kid gets "rated" going into college......but, there is a big jump still and once you get past the 5 star guys and the top 4 star guys, it is a coin flip IMO.  Look at NFL rosters and notice where a lot of these players come from.  Many rosters are filled with guys who were not even in power 5 conferences or went to colleges no one ever heard of.  Once a player gets here, regardless of the number of stars behind his name, they need to be willing to work and put in what is needed.  They need to be developed by coaches and if either part is not 100% up to speed, you become what you see at Nebraska.  The number of stars behind our recruits is not going to magically fix anything.  As the NFL rosters prove, there are a lot of NFL stars who came from way down the list of the recruiting rankings. 

 
10_point_buck said:
I do know a lot goes into how a HS kid gets "rated" going into college......but, there is a big jump still and once you get past the 5 star guys and the top 4 star guys, it is a coin flip IMO.  Look at NFL rosters and notice where a lot of these players come from.  Many rosters are filled with guys who were not even in power 5 conferences or went to colleges no one ever heard of.  Once a player gets here, regardless of the number of stars behind his name, they need to be willing to work and put in what is needed.  They need to be developed by coaches and if either part is not 100% up to speed, you become what you see at Nebraska.  The number of stars behind our recruits is not going to magically fix anything.  As the NFL rosters prove, there are a lot of NFL stars who came from way down the list of the recruiting rankings. 
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Agree with this as well.  I am not all believing in the recruiting rankings themselves either.  The culture issue goes to the heart of player effort and development of course.  We need to get the best players recruited and then each one has to work like heck to get bigger, stronger, faster, smarter and better.  For some reason the last two adjectives get forgotten but every bit as important.  The players and coaches are equally responsible in getting this all done.

Two years ago Frost & Co came in to take the reins and build a great program - almost from scratch.  Too many people just have not fully come to understand how far down the program actually was and how big the job is and how long it will take.   I think we’re about half way there. This fall we will see real progress = more wins and the eye test will become more apparent to most.  But we are not ready to win championships yet though playing NU will be much more challenging to all our opponents this fall.  This WILL be the best Husker team in at least 5 years.  

 
Offense will be Frost's guys this year outside of the leftovers for the o-line. That is the only thing that should hold us back some even though there is experience there. Talent isn't quite there yet but that will change a ton in 21' for the line. I think Mills is very vital now that Mo is gone. Behind him is all freshmen 

 
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