SIGNED OT Givens Mordi Price*

[Danny Bateman]

There's only one problem, Bo will not be molding him, Cotton will and that isn't good. He'll have alot of potential but will lose it quickly because of Cotton's coaching. Thankfully for him he's smart and can fall back on his academics.

our OL has improved significantly since cotton got here, including a pretty big step up this season. it's certainly not where i want it yet, but now that we're starting to have some depth and competition, i expect it will continue to improve.

We might be building depth and competition, but I don't think our offensive line has gotten better under Cotton. We can do better for an OLine coach. Too bad he has NU ties... makes it so hard to let him go. We've shown flashes, but no consistency. One awesome pull block for a huge touchdown, followed on the next drive by totally inept pass pro leading to a sack.

Spot on, one area they definatly have imporved on is pass blocking. In the CCG there were 2-3 plays were Martinez had 7 seconds or more to throw the dang ball. That is more than sufficient time to either check down, or throw the damn ball away. Run blocking is so hot and cold with this line it drives me to drink heavily on gamedays.

Good call, Speed. The most damning evidence that we can't just line up and run block our way to a win when we want to... SDSU. We had those guys beat on talent in probably every position, and definitely on the offensive line. While we did have a young QB trying to force things in his fourth game, there's absolutely no reason we shouldn't be able to line up and run up and down the field on that D. It should've been like moving the sled on the practice field, and yet, we failed to open up any good holes. They did have a lot of fight, and heart, that is admirable. But NU should've plowed straight through those guys.

On a lesser note, we also failed to take over the ISU and KU games, both defenses I have the same feeling about.

 

[ADS]

There's only one problem, Bo will not be molding him, Cotton will and that isn't good. He'll have alot of potential but will lose it quickly because of Cotton's coaching. Thankfully for him he's smart and can fall back on his academics.

our OL has improved significantly since cotton got here, including a pretty big step up this season. it's certainly not where i want it yet, but now that we're starting to have some depth and competition, i expect it will continue to improve.

We might be building depth and competition, but I don't think our offensive line has gotten better under Cotton. We can do better for an OLine coach. Too bad he has NU ties... makes it so hard to let him go. We've shown flashes, but no consistency. One awesome pull block for a huge touchdown, followed on the next drive by totally inept pass pro leading to a sack.

Spot on, one area they definatly have imporved on is pass blocking. In the CCG there were 2-3 plays were Martinez had 7 seconds or more to throw the dang ball. That is more than sufficient time to either check down, or throw the damn ball away. Run blocking is so hot and cold with this line it drives me to drink heavily on gamedays.

Good call, Speed. The most damning evidence that we can't just line up and run block our way to a win when we want to... SDSU. We had those guys beat on talent in probably every position, and definitely on the offensive line. While we did have a young QB trying to force things in his fourth game, there's absolutely no reason we shouldn't be able to line up and run up and down the field on that D. It should've been like moving the sled on the practice field, and yet, we failed to open up any good holes. They did have a lot of fight, and heart, that is admirable. But NU should've plowed straight through those guys.

On a lesser note, we also failed to take over the ISU and KU games, both defenses I have the same feeling about.

Thats the most sickening part, with the move to the Big 10 we will need to slow the game down against the likes of tOSU, Northwestern, Michigan, etc. Those teams can score, and will score, with any resemblence of a power running game we should be fine. But the only time we have seen that type of attack is at most 4 games this year.

 

[kchusker_chris]

Good call, Speed. The most damning evidence that we can't just line up and run block our way to a win when we want to... SDSU. We had those guys beat on talent in probably every position, and definitely on the offensive line. While we did have a young QB trying to force things in his fourth game, there's absolutely no reason we shouldn't be able to line up and run up and down the field on that D. It should've been like moving the sled on the practice field, and yet, we failed to open up any good holes. They did have a lot of fight, and heart, that is admirable. But NU should've plowed straight through those guys.

On a lesser note, we also failed to take over the ISU and KU games, both defenses I have the same feeling about.

That might make us too one-dimensional though... :sarcasm

 

[dylan]

We might be building depth and competition, but I don't think our offensive line has gotten better under Cotton. We can do better for an OLine coach. Too bad he has NU ties... makes it so hard to let him go. We've shown flashes, but no consistency. One awesome pull block for a huge touchdown, followed on the next drive by totally inept pass pro leading to a sack.

we have a top 10 rushing offense. we might be the second team ever to have three 1,000 yard rushers. that didn't happen by accident. considering our OL was a joke three years ago, your claim that we haven't improved under cotton is just plain ridiculous.

is it where we want it to be? of course not. i want to be able to grind it out against anyone. and i wasn't all that impressed by the play of our OT's, particularly in pass pro. i don't expect a reincarnation of the 94-95 pipeline (and anyone that uses them as their measuring stick is delusional), but i think we can and should expect quality line play. this season was the first time in years that i felt the OL was getting closer to consistently delivering that. now let's see if he can coach up the young kids enough to replace the best pair of guards in the conference.

 

[C N Red]

There's only one problem, Bo will not be molding him, Cotton will and that isn't good. He'll have alot of potential but will lose it quickly because of Cotton's coaching. Thankfully for him he's smart and can fall back on his academics.

our OL has improved significantly since cotton got here, including a pretty big step up this season. it's certainly not where i want it yet, but now that we're starting to have some depth and competition, i expect it will continue to improve.

We might be building depth and competition, but I don't think our offensive line has gotten better under Cotton. We can do better for an OLine coach. Too bad he has NU ties... makes it so hard to let him go. We've shown flashes, but no consistency. One awesome pull block for a huge touchdown, followed on the next drive by totally inept pass pro leading to a sack.

:yeah

 

[Nexus]

There's only one problem, Bo will not be molding him, Cotton will and that isn't good. He'll have alot of potential but will lose it quickly because of Cotton's coaching. Thankfully for him he's smart and can fall back on his academics.

our OL has improved significantly since cotton got here, including a pretty big step up this season. it's certainly not where i want it yet, but now that we're starting to have some depth and competition, i expect it will continue to improve.

We might be building depth and competition, but I don't think our offensive line has gotten better under Cotton. We can do better for an OLine coach. Too bad he has NU ties... makes it so hard to let him go. We've shown flashes, but no consistency. One awesome pull block for a huge touchdown, followed on the next drive by totally inept pass pro leading to a sack.

My guess is Barney is a better run blocking than pass blocking coach, which makes sense because he played in Osborne's power running scheme back in the day. I've mentioned in another thread that if Barney does struggle at coaching up pass blocking, then perhaps Bo should look into hiring another OL coach who specializes in pass blocking? Both Devaney and Osborne had 2 OL coaches on their staff. One specialized in run blocking while the other specialized in pass blocking.

Hypothetically if Watson were to leave, my guess is he'd take Gilmore with him. In that scenario if I were Bo, I'd have Ron Brown coach both WR & TE like he did during the Osborne and Solich eras. Then I'd hire another OL coach for pass blocking and let Barney focus on run blocking.

 

[BIGREDFAN_in_OMAHA]

There's only one problem, Bo will not be molding him, Cotton will and that isn't good. He'll have alot of potential but will lose it quickly because of Cotton's coaching. Thankfully for him he's smart and can fall back on his academics.

our OL has improved significantly since cotton got here, including a pretty big step up this season. it's certainly not where i want it yet, but now that we're starting to have some depth and competition, i expect it will continue to improve.

We might be building depth and competition, but I don't think our offensive line has gotten better under Cotton. We can do better for an OLine coach. Too bad he has NU ties... makes it so hard to let him go. We've shown flashes, but no consistency. One awesome pull block for a huge touchdown, followed on the next drive by totally inept pass pro leading to a sack.

My guess is Barney is a better run blocking than pass blocking coach, which makes sense because he played in Osborne's power running scheme back in the day. I've mentioned in another thread that if Barney does struggle at coaching up pass blocking, then perhaps Bo should look into hiring another OL coach who specializes in pass blocking? Both Devaney and Osborne had 2 OL coaches on their staff. One specialized in run blocking while the other specialized in pass blocking.

Hypothetically if Watson were to leave, my guess is he'd take Gilmore with him. In that scenario if I were Bo, I'd have Ron Brown coach both WR & TE like he did during the Osborne and Solich eras. Then I'd hire another OL coach for pass blocking and let Barney focus on run blocking.

It makes sense since TO had Milt and Dan Young and each was better at one of them.

 

[RedDenver]

we have a top 10 rushing offense. we might be the second team ever to have three 1,000 yard rushers. that didn't happen by accident. considering our OL was a joke three years ago, your claim that we haven't improved under cotton is just plain ridiculous.

Facts have never proven anything. My opinion of Cotton from when he was the OC in 2003 is definitely more relevant. :sarcasm

Glad to have Givens. OL talent wins more games than any other part of recruiting IMO.

 

[zoogs]

There's only one problem, Bo will not be molding him, Cotton will and that isn't good. He'll have alot of potential but will lose it quickly because of Cotton's coaching. Thankfully for him he's smart and can fall back on his academics.

our OL has improved significantly since cotton got here, including a pretty big step up this season. it's certainly not where i want it yet, but now that we're starting to have some depth and competition, i expect it will continue to improve.

We might be building depth and competition, but I don't think our offensive line has gotten better under Cotton. We can do better for an OLine coach. Too bad he has NU ties... makes it so hard to let him go. We've shown flashes, but no consistency. One awesome pull block for a huge touchdown, followed on the next drive by totally inept pass pro leading to a sack.

:yeah

Depending on who you listen to, Cotton has actually had a disastrous effect on the offense. A few good effort games from the line, but consistently bad coaching by Barney. And recruiting. It's not often you see a positions coach have to get taught how to do his job with some consulting by a retired, former positions coach...

 

[dylan]

Depending on who you listen to, Cotton has actually had a disastrous effect on the offense. A few good effort games from the line, but consistently bad coaching by Barney. And recruiting. It's not often you see a positions coach have to get taught how to do his job with some consulting by a retired, former positions coach...

care to be more specific about what he's doing wrong and how he's disastrously affecting the offense?

as to consulting with tenopir (i assume that's what you're referring to), why wouldn't you get advice from a legendary line coach? are you similarly disappointed in watson for listening to tom osborne about how to best utilize a power run game with option principles? what about bo learning managerial skills from TO and moglia? is that acceptable?

to be clear, i'm not 100% sold on cotton yet. but i was impressed enough by the progress i saw this year to give him the benefit of the doubt for the time being. i also am not sure why so many fans have had so much animosity for him almost since the moment he came back. i suspect it is related to the fact that he was the offensive coordinator for one season in 2003, and an OC is ever a favorite whipping boy of fans.

 

[zoogs]

Well, it all depends on who you listen to I guess. None of this is really my own observation as I'm not personally qualified to make that judgment. Some feel Cotton is doing fine. Others have scathing things to say just about his work. We do have a solid group of linemen, though. The animosity doesn't appear to be based on him being OC in 2003, though. I didn't follow message boards back then, how did people receive him?

Good coaches learn from each other all the time. Didn't we have Saban consult with Bo on defense before their championship showdown against Texas? Or Watson with Chip Kelly on this year's offense? Or, I guess, Chip Kelly with Shawn Watson? (which should be a clue as to the kind of professional respect Shawn has earned) I guess I read all of those as situations where coaches try to learn something from one another, and the Barney one as one where higher powers stepped in to try to help Barney out. Could be wrong.

 

[dylan]

Well, it all depends on who you listen to I guess. None of this is really my own observation as I'm not personally qualified to make that judgment. Some feel Cotton is doing fine. Others have scathing things to say just about his work. We do have a solid group of linemen, though. The animosity doesn't appear to be based on him being OC in 2003, though. I didn't follow message boards back then, how did people receive him?

Good coaches learn from each other all the time. Didn't we have Saban consult with Bo on defense before their championship showdown against Texas? Or Watson with Chip Kelly on this year's offense? Or, I guess, Chip Kelly with Shawn Watson? (which should be a clue as to the kind of professional respect Shawn has earned) I guess I read all of those as situations where coaches try to learn something from one another, and the Barney one as one where higher powers stepped in to try to help Barney out. Could be wrong.

so you don't know what he's doing wrong or what happened with the tenopir situation, yet you apparently buy in to the idea that he's destroying our offense.

leaving unsupported opinions and innuendo aside, it is pretty obvious that prior to our top two quarterbacks getting hurt, we had a pretty good offense this year. that was in large part due to improvement on the line. cotton was directly responsible for coaching up an undersized walk-on, a juco transfer and a freshman into being solid starters for us this year. (sirles obviously didn't play as well as caputo or henry, but how much can you expect from a freshman starting on the line?) i also saw progress from dj jones, who was an actual disaster prior to last year's holiday bowl. we'll need significantly better play from the RT spot going forward, but he definitely improved from nightmare to mediocre. keith williams also had his best season, despite being hobbled for most of the year.

like i said, i'll need to see further improvement before i'm personally satisfied with the line or the offense in general, but this year's line play provides no evidence of "disastrous" coaching.

 

[C N Red]

Well, it all depends on who you listen to I guess. None of this is really my own observation as I'm not personally qualified to make that judgment. Some feel Cotton is doing fine. Others have scathing things to say just about his work. We do have a solid group of linemen, though. The animosity doesn't appear to be based on him being OC in 2003, though. I didn't follow message boards back then, how did people receive him?

Good coaches learn from each other all the time. Didn't we have Saban consult with Bo on defense before their championship showdown against Texas? Or Watson with Chip Kelly on this year's offense? Or, I guess, Chip Kelly with Shawn Watson? (which should be a clue as to the kind of professional respect Shawn has earned) I guess I read all of those as situations where coaches try to learn something from one another, and the Barney one as one where higher powers stepped in to try to help Barney out. Could be wrong.

so you don't know what he's doing wrong or what happened with the tenopir situation, yet you apparently buy in to the idea that he's destroying our offense.

leaving unsupported opinions and innuendo aside, it is pretty obvious that prior to our top two quarterbacks getting hurt, we had a pretty good offense this year. that was in large part due to improvement on the line. cotton was directly responsible for coaching up an undersized walk-on, a juco transfer and a freshman into being solid starters for us this year. (sirles obviously didn't play as well as caputo or henry, but how much can you expect from a freshman starting on the line?) i also saw progress from dj jones, who was an actual disaster prior to last year's holiday bowl. we'll need significantly better play from the RT spot going forward, but he definitely improved from nightmare to mediocre. keith williams also had his best season, despite being hobbled for most of the year.

like i said, i'll need to see further improvement before i'm personally satisfied with the line or the offense in general, but this year's line play provides no evidence of "disastrous" coaching.

Did you watch the big 12 championship? That was not a good game for the oline

 

[dylan]

Did you watch the big 12 championship? That was not a good game for the oline

i had great seats and i agree, though some of the sacks given up were clearly on martinez and some of the play calling didn't do them any favors. OU has a talented defense, particularly in ways that match up well against our offense: speed rushers versus our suspect OT's and second level speed to attack our outside run game (particularly with williams too hobbled to be effective pulling). bottom line though was that our line (really our offense in general) just wasn't good enough to get it done versus a top team.

again though, i didn't say we had a finished product on OL. i said there was demonstrable evidence of progress this year, more than enough to give barney some measure of credit for it.

 

[zoogs]

so you don't know what he's doing wrong or what happened with the tenopir situation, yet you apparently buy in to the idea that he's destroying our offense.

I should say I don't feel comfortable regurgitating other people's takes wholesale on what he is doing wrong here. But they are a lot more supported than assumption. We probably have Milt to thank for the wheels not coming off on the OL this year, though. Barney was the guy who came in here spouting off in news articles about how OL just need to be fiery and aggressive, screw technique and all those things the old staff foolishly emphasized.......never mind that Callahan as an OL guy and Barney is embarrassingly not close to a contest. That told me Barney didn't have a clue, and I don't think he's really gotten much of one in 3 years. I agree that this year, the results have been passable to decent. But Barney is still Barney.

I will also agree that a lot of the sacks we saw against OU were on Taylor pure and simple. Anyway, I just realized this is the Givens Mordi Price thread. Sorry for taking it off in another direction.