T. Armstrong/B. Farve

[cornstar]

In the grand scheme of Tommy Armstrong's development and career as a Nebraska quarterback, I think we can safely say Brett Farve's influence (whatever that may be) was minimal in comparison to the coaching he received.

I'll admit it's funny to poke fun at Favre's successes and failures throwing some ridiculous passes in his career, but there's one big thing Favre did pretty well that Armstrong didn't - check down.

Yep. Favre has the strong arm and tons of incredible throw only he could make and too many throws he never should have made, but he also did the quickest checkdowns in the NFL. Thousand of Favre's career yards were short checkdowns. If the play wasn't breaking the way he wanted, he had no problem take the 5 yard gain to the wide open RB in the flat. Always wished Tommy would have done the same.

Lol. Sam Keller did that and was crucified by this fan base.
Unbelievable.

Really? Asking honestly. I was maybe 16-17 at the time and didn't follow the program very closely, but was he really "crucified" by Husker fans for checking down to other passing options?

Yes, they called him "Check down" for a reason. Every 3rd down he'd seemingly toss one out to Lucky and usually not convert. I think Lucky had 60 or 70 receptions that year. The fan base hated him for that. To be fair, Clownahan promising him the job didn't sit well with some.

 

[junior4949]

I vividly remember him tossing the ball to Lucky. However, I don't think this is why he was crucified. He almost never even looked at the deep route. In order to "check down", you have to at least look. He didn't. He had happy feet and wanted the ball out of his hands as quickly as possible. You do have to hand it to him though, he was pretty much the nail in the coffin to two different coaching staffs.

 

[Guy Chamberlin]

In the grand scheme of Tommy Armstrong's development and career as a Nebraska quarterback, I think we can safely say Brett Farve's influence (whatever that may be) was minimal in comparison to the coaching he received.

I'll admit it's funny to poke fun at Favre's successes and failures throwing some ridiculous passes in his career, but there's one big thing Favre did pretty well that Armstrong didn't - check down.

Yep. Favre has the strong arm and tons of incredible throw only he could make and too many throws he never should have made, but he also did the quickest checkdowns in the NFL. Thousand of Favre's career yards were short checkdowns. If the play wasn't breaking the way he wanted, he had no problem take the 5 yard gain to the wide open RB in the flat. Always wished Tommy would have done the same.

Lol. Sam Keller did that and was crucified by this fan base.
Unbelievable.

Really? Asking honestly. I was maybe 16-17 at the time and didn't follow the program very closely, but was he really "crucified" by Husker fans for checking down to other passing options?

Yes, they called him "Check down" for a reason. Every 3rd down he'd seemingly toss one out to Lucky and usually not convert. I think Lucky had 60 or 70 receptions that year. The fan base hated him for that. To be fair, Clownahan promising him the job didn't sit well with some.

Key word there is "3rd Down". Favre would at least go for the sticks on third down. "Check Down" is reserved for cowards and Favre and Tommy certainly weren't cowardly throwing the ball.

Niners fans started calling Blaine Gabbert "Check Down" last season because when the team needed 7 on third down he'd invariably complete a 5 yard pass. Gabbert is no longer starting.

I honestly don't remember that criticism of Keller, who seemed like a better than average passer on a terribly flawed team. Also, he was brought in as a one-season savior and came off as arrogant beyond his numbers.

And yeah, it was clear in hindsight that Ganz was better.

 

[Saunders]

In the grand scheme of Tommy Armstrong's development and career as a Nebraska quarterback, I think we can safely say Brett Farve's influence (whatever that may be) was minimal in comparison to the coaching he received.

I'll admit it's funny to poke fun at Favre's successes and failures throwing some ridiculous passes in his career, but there's one big thing Favre did pretty well that Armstrong didn't - check down.

Yep. Favre has the strong arm and tons of incredible throw only he could make and too many throws he never should have made, but he also did the quickest checkdowns in the NFL. Thousand of Favre's career yards were short checkdowns. If the play wasn't breaking the way he wanted, he had no problem take the 5 yard gain to the wide open RB in the flat. Always wished Tommy would have done the same.

Lol. Sam Keller did that and was crucified by this fan base.
Unbelievable.

Really? Asking honestly. I was maybe 16-17 at the time and didn't follow the program very closely, but was he really "crucified" by Husker fans for checking down to other passing options?

Yes, they called him "Check down" for a reason. Every 3rd down he'd seemingly toss one out to Lucky and usually not convert. I think Lucky had 60 or 70 receptions that year. The fan base hated him for that. To be fair, Clownahan promising him the job didn't sit well with some.

Key word there is "3rd Down". Favre would at least go for the sticks on third down. "Check Down" is reserved for cowards and Favre and Tommy certainly weren't cowardly throwing the ball.

Niners fans started calling Blaine Gabbert "Check Down" last season because when the team needed 7 on third down he'd invariably complete a 5 yard pass. Gabbert is no longer starting.

I honestly don't remember that criticism of Keller, who seemed like a better than average passer on a terribly flawed team. Also, he was brought in as a one-season savior and came off as arrogant beyond his numbers.

And yeah, it was clear in hindsight that Ganz was better.

This right here. The guy was a primma donna from day 1. Remember the solo cup incident?

 

[cornstar]

In the grand scheme of Tommy Armstrong's development and career as a Nebraska quarterback, I think we can safely say Brett Farve's influence (whatever that may be) was minimal in comparison to the coaching he received.

I'll admit it's funny to poke fun at Favre's successes and failures throwing some ridiculous passes in his career, but there's one big thing Favre did pretty well that Armstrong didn't - check down.

Yep. Favre has the strong arm and tons of incredible throw only he could make and too many throws he never should have made, but he also did the quickest checkdowns in the NFL. Thousand of Favre's career yards were short checkdowns. If the play wasn't breaking the way he wanted, he had no problem take the 5 yard gain to the wide open RB in the flat. Always wished Tommy would have done the same.

Lol. Sam Keller did that and was crucified by this fan base.
Unbelievable.

Really? Asking honestly. I was maybe 16-17 at the time and didn't follow the program very closely, but was he really "crucified" by Husker fans for checking down to other passing options?

Yes, they called him "Check down" for a reason. Every 3rd down he'd seemingly toss one out to Lucky and usually not convert. I think Lucky had 60 or 70 receptions that year. The fan base hated him for that. To be fair, Clownahan promising him the job didn't sit well with some.

Key word there is "3rd Down". Favre would at least go for the sticks on third down. "Check Down" is reserved for cowards and Favre and Tommy certainly weren't cowardly throwing the ball.

Niners fans started calling Blaine Gabbert "Check Down" last season because when the team needed 7 on third down he'd invariably complete a 5 yard pass. Gabbert is no longer starting.

I honestly don't remember that criticism of Keller, who seemed like a better than average passer on a terribly flawed team. Also, he was brought in as a one-season savior and came off as arrogant beyond his numbers.

And yeah, it was clear in hindsight that Ganz was better.

Just listened to Seg.11 of USC from yesterday, at the end of the segment Bishop referred to Keller as "Check down Sam."

Just like I can't show a link to Meyer's quote about not wanting to coach for us after firing Solich, I can't show a link to this quote. But I'm not the only one who remembered these things being said.

 

[Enhance]

In the grand scheme of Tommy Armstrong's development and career as a Nebraska quarterback, I think we can safely say Brett Farve's influence (whatever that may be) was minimal in comparison to the coaching he received.

I'll admit it's funny to poke fun at Favre's successes and failures throwing some ridiculous passes in his career, but there's one big thing Favre did pretty well that Armstrong didn't - check down.

Yep. Favre has the strong arm and tons of incredible throw only he could make and too many throws he never should have made, but he also did the quickest checkdowns in the NFL. Thousand of Favre's career yards were short checkdowns. If the play wasn't breaking the way he wanted, he had no problem take the 5 yard gain to the wide open RB in the flat. Always wished Tommy would have done the same.

Lol. Sam Keller did that and was crucified by this fan base.
Unbelievable.

Really? Asking honestly. I was maybe 16-17 at the time and didn't follow the program very closely, but was he really "crucified" by Husker fans for checking down to other passing options?

Yes, they called him "Check down" for a reason. Every 3rd down he'd seemingly toss one out to Lucky and usually not convert. I think Lucky had 60 or 70 receptions that year. The fan base hated him for that. To be fair, Clownahan promising him the job didn't sit well with some.

Key word there is "3rd Down". Favre would at least go for the sticks on third down. "Check Down" is reserved for cowards and Favre and Tommy certainly weren't cowardly throwing the ball.

Niners fans started calling Blaine Gabbert "Check Down" last season because when the team needed 7 on third down he'd invariably complete a 5 yard pass. Gabbert is no longer starting.

I honestly don't remember that criticism of Keller, who seemed like a better than average passer on a terribly flawed team. Also, he was brought in as a one-season savior and came off as arrogant beyond his numbers.

And yeah, it was clear in hindsight that Ganz was better.

Just listened to Seg.11 of USC from yesterday, at the end of the segment Bishop referred to Keller as "Check down Sam."

Just like I can't show a link to Meyer's quote about not wanting to coach for us after firing Solich, I can't show a link to this quote. But I'm not the only one who remembered these things being said.

Well then, what many are probably frustrated with is the lack of a middle ground - either there's too little checking down (Armstrong) or too much checking down (Keller).

 

[cornstar]

In the grand scheme of Tommy Armstrong's development and career as a Nebraska quarterback, I think we can safely say Brett Farve's influence (whatever that may be) was minimal in comparison to the coaching he received.

I'll admit it's funny to poke fun at Favre's successes and failures throwing some ridiculous passes in his career, but there's one big thing Favre did pretty well that Armstrong didn't - check down.

Yep. Favre has the strong arm and tons of incredible throw only he could make and too many throws he never should have made, but he also did the quickest checkdowns in the NFL. Thousand of Favre's career yards were short checkdowns. If the play wasn't breaking the way he wanted, he had no problem take the 5 yard gain to the wide open RB in the flat. Always wished Tommy would have done the same.

Lol. Sam Keller did that and was crucified by this fan base.
Unbelievable.

Really? Asking honestly. I was maybe 16-17 at the time and didn't follow the program very closely, but was he really "crucified" by Husker fans for checking down to other passing options?

Yes, they called him "Check down" for a reason. Every 3rd down he'd seemingly toss one out to Lucky and usually not convert. I think Lucky had 60 or 70 receptions that year. The fan base hated him for that. To be fair, Clownahan promising him the job didn't sit well with some.

Key word there is "3rd Down". Favre would at least go for the sticks on third down. "Check Down" is reserved for cowards and Favre and Tommy certainly weren't cowardly throwing the ball.

Niners fans started calling Blaine Gabbert "Check Down" last season because when the team needed 7 on third down he'd invariably complete a 5 yard pass. Gabbert is no longer starting.

I honestly don't remember that criticism of Keller, who seemed like a better than average passer on a terribly flawed team. Also, he was brought in as a one-season savior and came off as arrogant beyond his numbers.

And yeah, it was clear in hindsight that Ganz was better.

Just listened to Seg.11 of USC from yesterday, at the end of the segment Bishop referred to Keller as "Check down Sam."
Just like I can't show a link to Meyer's quote about not wanting to coach for us after firing Solich, I can't show a link to this quote. But I'm not the only one who remembered these things being said.

Well then, what many are probably frustrated with is the lack of a middle ground - either there's too little checking down (Armstrong) or too much checking down (Keller).

It certainly sounds easy in theory. But I'm betting that most of us here were never FBS P5 level QBs.

 

[Enhance]

In the grand scheme of Tommy Armstrong's development and career as a Nebraska quarterback, I think we can safely say Brett Farve's influence (whatever that may be) was minimal in comparison to the coaching he received.

I'll admit it's funny to poke fun at Favre's successes and failures throwing some ridiculous passes in his career, but there's one big thing Favre did pretty well that Armstrong didn't - check down.

Yep. Favre has the strong arm and tons of incredible throw only he could make and too many throws he never should have made, but he also did the quickest checkdowns in the NFL. Thousand of Favre's career yards were short checkdowns. If the play wasn't breaking the way he wanted, he had no problem take the 5 yard gain to the wide open RB in the flat. Always wished Tommy would have done the same.

Lol. Sam Keller did that and was crucified by this fan base.
Unbelievable.

Really? Asking honestly. I was maybe 16-17 at the time and didn't follow the program very closely, but was he really "crucified" by Husker fans for checking down to other passing options?

Yes, they called him "Check down" for a reason. Every 3rd down he'd seemingly toss one out to Lucky and usually not convert. I think Lucky had 60 or 70 receptions that year. The fan base hated him for that. To be fair, Clownahan promising him the job didn't sit well with some.

Key word there is "3rd Down". Favre would at least go for the sticks on third down. "Check Down" is reserved for cowards and Favre and Tommy certainly weren't cowardly throwing the ball.

Niners fans started calling Blaine Gabbert "Check Down" last season because when the team needed 7 on third down he'd invariably complete a 5 yard pass. Gabbert is no longer starting.

I honestly don't remember that criticism of Keller, who seemed like a better than average passer on a terribly flawed team. Also, he was brought in as a one-season savior and came off as arrogant beyond his numbers.

And yeah, it was clear in hindsight that Ganz was better.

Just listened to Seg.11 of USC from yesterday, at the end of the segment Bishop referred to Keller as "Check down Sam."
Just like I can't show a link to Meyer's quote about not wanting to coach for us after firing Solich, I can't show a link to this quote. But I'm not the only one who remembered these things being said.

Well then, what many are probably frustrated with is the lack of a middle ground - either there's too little checking down (Armstrong) or too much checking down (Keller).

It certainly sounds easy in theory. But I'm betting that most of us here were never FBS P5 level QBs.

I would argue you don't need to be a FBS P5 level QB to know when an offense is struggling to convert third downs.

 

[cornstar]

In the grand scheme of Tommy Armstrong's development and career as a Nebraska quarterback, I think we can safely say Brett Farve's influence (whatever that may be) was minimal in comparison to the coaching he received.

I'll admit it's funny to poke fun at Favre's successes and failures throwing some ridiculous passes in his career, but there's one big thing Favre did pretty well that Armstrong didn't - check down.

Yep. Favre has the strong arm and tons of incredible throw only he could make and too many throws he never should have made, but he also did the quickest checkdowns in the NFL. Thousand of Favre's career yards were short checkdowns. If the play wasn't breaking the way he wanted, he had no problem take the 5 yard gain to the wide open RB in the flat. Always wished Tommy would have done the same.

Lol. Sam Keller did that and was crucified by this fan base.
Unbelievable.

Really? Asking honestly. I was maybe 16-17 at the time and didn't follow the program very closely, but was he really "crucified" by Husker fans for checking down to other passing options?

Yes, they called him "Check down" for a reason. Every 3rd down he'd seemingly toss one out to Lucky and usually not convert. I think Lucky had 60 or 70 receptions that year. The fan base hated him for that. To be fair, Clownahan promising him the job didn't sit well with some.

Key word there is "3rd Down". Favre would at least go for the sticks on third down. "Check Down" is reserved for cowards and Favre and Tommy certainly weren't cowardly throwing the ball.

Niners fans started calling Blaine Gabbert "Check Down" last season because when the team needed 7 on third down he'd invariably complete a 5 yard pass. Gabbert is no longer starting.

I honestly don't remember that criticism of Keller, who seemed like a better than average passer on a terribly flawed team. Also, he was brought in as a one-season savior and came off as arrogant beyond his numbers.

And yeah, it was clear in hindsight that Ganz was better.

Just listened to Seg.11 of USC from yesterday, at the end of the segment Bishop referred to Keller as "Check down Sam."
Just like I can't show a link to Meyer's quote about not wanting to coach for us after firing Solich, I can't show a link to this quote. But I'm not the only one who remembered these things being said.

Well then, what many are probably frustrated with is the lack of a middle ground - either there's too little checking down (Armstrong) or too much checking down (Keller).

It certainly sounds easy in theory. But I'm betting that most of us here were never FBS P5 level QBs.

I would argue you don't need to be a FBS P5 level QB to know when an offense is struggling to convert third downs.

Very true. I was simply talking about having to physically see things from their perspective. Heck, when I used to play Ncaa football it was tough enough to make those reads sitting on my couch, let alone with 300 lb. dudes looking to crush me.

 

[Huskerfan55]

I wont miss him at all! Armstrong is a competitor but he is not a QB! He probably should have played on the defense! He is nothing like Farve!

 

[Guy Chamberlin]

I wont miss him at all! Armstrong is a competitor but he is not a QB! He probably should have played on the defense! He is nothing like Farve!

I think the problem is that he was something like Favre. Had the arm and the fire and could make some incredible plays both throwing and running. Coaches and fans could see he was close to greatness. Just not great enough to overlook his mistakes. The 25% of him that wasn't like Brett Favre basically doomed him.

Now imagine Taylor Martinez and Tommy Armstrong playing with a vintage Nebraska defense. Imagine Tommy Frazier, Scott Frost or Eric Crouch playing with one of our historically bad defenses.

Defenses make quarterbacks better, too.

 

[Enhance]

I wont miss him at all! Armstrong is a competitor but he is not a QB! He probably should have played on the defense! He is nothing like Farve!

I think the problem is that he was something like Favre. Had the arm and the fire and could make some incredible plays both throwing and running. Coaches and fans could see he was close to greatness. Just not great enough to overlook his mistakes. The 25% of him that wasn't like Brett Favre basically doomed him.

Now imagine Taylor Martinez and Tommy Armstrong playing with a vintage Nebraska defense. Imagine Tommy Frazier, Scott Frost or Eric Crouch playing with one of our historically bad defenses.

Defenses make quarterbacks better, too.

Agreed - I've always thought both TMart and TA probably could've flourished under some of the older schemes and coaching at the university. That said, you could probably make that argument any number of quarterbacks or players. But, if you don't have an elite quarterback, the rest of the team has to be able to make up for the inevitable quarterback mistakes. Nebraska hasn't been able to do that.

 

[HuskerExpat]

In the grand scheme of Tommy Armstrong's development and career as a Nebraska quarterback, I think we can safely say Brett Farve's influence (whatever that may be) was minimal in comparison to the coaching he received.

I'll admit it's funny to poke fun at Favre's successes and failures throwing some ridiculous passes in his career, but there's one big thing Favre did pretty well that Armstrong didn't - check down.

Yep. Favre has the strong arm and tons of incredible throw only he could make and too many throws he never should have made, but he also did the quickest checkdowns in the NFL. Thousand of Favre's career yards were short checkdowns. If the play wasn't breaking the way he wanted, he had no problem take the 5 yard gain to the wide open RB in the flat. Always wished Tommy would have done the same.

Lol. Sam Keller did that and was crucified by this fan base.

Unbelievable.

Really? Asking honestly. I was maybe 16-17 at the time and didn't follow the program very closely, but was he really "crucified" by Husker fans for checking down to other passing options?

No, not really. That's revisionist history.

 

[cornstar]

In the grand scheme of Tommy Armstrong's development and career as a Nebraska quarterback, I think we can safely say Brett Farve's influence (whatever that may be) was minimal in comparison to the coaching he received.

I'll admit it's funny to poke fun at Favre's successes and failures throwing some ridiculous passes in his career, but there's one big thing Favre did pretty well that Armstrong didn't - check down.

Yep. Favre has the strong arm and tons of incredible throw only he could make and too many throws he never should have made, but he also did the quickest checkdowns in the NFL. Thousand of Favre's career yards were short checkdowns. If the play wasn't breaking the way he wanted, he had no problem take the 5 yard gain to the wide open RB in the flat. Always wished Tommy would have done the same.

Lol. Sam Keller did that and was crucified by this fan base.Unbelievable.

Really? Asking honestly. I was maybe 16-17 at the time and didn't follow the program very closely, but was he really "crucified" by Husker fans for checking down to other passing options?

No, not really. That's revisionist history.

You're incorrect. You should read the whole thread.

 

[zoogs]

Why are we fighting so hard to defend Keller's honor here?

Keller was a solid QB with plenty of skills. He got criticism for relying too much on the checkdown, but there is literally zero confusion over whether the checkdown is or is not an important part of an offense, and plenty of the criticism has been for other reasons.