Tangent Thread - P&R Edition

Redux said:
I just don't see a Hillary administration doing any better.  Or a Pence administration for that matter had Trump successfully been ousted.  The land of the free means the land of the f#&%ed when s#!t hits the fan.  Luckily this pandemic is highly survivable for most.  Imagine if that weren't the case, America would be starting from scratch.
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Imagine if the President of the United States had not mocked wearing face-masks, making them a visible sign of your party affiliation. Simple math suggests thousands more people would be alive. 

Also, the previous administration had an experienced pandemic team and playbook in place, including feet on the ground in China, where epidemiologists have long expected the next pandemic would emerge. Trump dismantled everything Barack Obama did out of spite. That would tend to make a difference when the pandemic that the smart people expected finally showed up.

To put it another way -- why is the wealthy and exceptional United States sucking so bad at this if the administration itself doesn't matter?   

 
Redux said:
I just don't see a Hillary administration doing any better.  Or a Pence administration for that matter had Trump successfully been ousted.  The land of the free means the land of the f#&%ed when s#!t hits the fan.  Luckily this pandemic is highly survivable for most.  Imagine if that weren't the case, America would be starting from scratch.
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This attitude is so frustrating. People bag on regulations/scientists when things go wrong but give them no credit for prevention. You are giving way too little credit to preventative measures experts in their fields put into place to prevent catastrophes. I really wish there were alternate universes we could look into.

Before the 2016 election Trump wanted to get rid of the "FDA food police" too. I wonder how many people would have agreed with that. I know a lot of people are against regulations of any kind. If he had done this (similar to pulling the pandemic team out of China) and there was a huge increase in food born illness or mad cow disease I feel like you would be saying the same types of things about it.

 
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I wonder, if Trump had said "wear a mask, you have to wear masks" if the crazies on the other side would have been against it...

"That racist POS is not going to tell me to wear a mask, he doesn't make the rules he is not my President"

I have to think that crazies, regardless of "side" are still, in the end, crazies.  

I think you would have seen Trump supporters fighting non-maskers and telling them they need to mask up.

 
teachercd said:
I wonder, if Trump had said "wear a mask, you have to wear masks" if the crazies on the other side would have been against it...

"That racist POS is not going to tell me to wear a mask, he doesn't make the rules he is not my President"

I have to think that crazies, regardless of "side" are still, in the end, crazies.  

I think you would have seen Trump supporters fighting non-maskers and telling them they need to mask up.
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They would have done what they do anyway - ignore trump and listen to the experts.

 
knapplc said:
They would have done what they do anyway - ignore trump and listen to the experts.
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I don't think all of them would.  Because the experts would be saying wear masks, as would trump, which would make those experts "trumpers"...

Now, I am just talking about the crazies.  Which I imagine is a small % of anti-trumpers.  But there is no way that all the anti-trumpers would have listened.  

I would hope they would listen but crazy is crazy.  

 
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I think more moderate/independent leaning Republicans may have listened, but there's a huge segment of the Republican voting base that closely aligns with Trump's viewpoint on all of it simply because of what he has said with the 'R' attached to his name. They're the type of people that if we met them on a street corner, we'd probably find them pleasant and relatable, which is what makes their stances on Trump and COVID even more outlandish.

A lot of Republicans have spent the last four years in an echo chamber, seemingly believing that a majority of the country supported Trump, despite the fact that he didn't win the popular vote in 2016 and I don't think EVER had an approval rating above 50% as a president.

 
Enhance said:
I don't think EVER had an approval rating above 50% as a president.
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Per 538, he did not.  

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How he compared to past presidents. Pretty interesting charts. Look at W just after 9/11. 

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Moiraine said:
This attitude is so frustrating. People bag on regulations/scientists when things go wrong but give them no credit for prevention. You are giving way too little credit to preventative measures experts in their fields put into place to prevent catastrophes. I really wish there were alternate universes we could look into.

Before the 2016 election Trump wanted to get rid of the "FDA food police" too. I wonder how many people would have agreed with that. I know a lot of people are against regulations of any kind. If he had done this (similar to pulling the pandemic team out of China) and there was a huge increase in food born illness or mad cow disease I feel like you would be saying the same types of things about it.
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It's frustrating because it's partly true.  Look, I wish the numbers were different too.  But saying things would've been so much better under someone else or so much worse under someone else does absolutely nothing.  Unless we get Rick Sanchez's portal gun to go look at an alternate dimension where Hillary won, we can't know.  We can assume all we want though.  And my original statement was I don't think Hillary would've done much better.  I'm not basing that off anything but an assumption and the fact I don't spend my days getting pissed off Donald Trump breathes.  Covid was coming to the US no matter what.

 
Guy Chamberlin said:
Also, the previous administration had an experienced pandemic team and playbook in place, including feet on the ground in China, where epidemiologists have long expected the next pandemic would emerge. Trump dismantled everything Barack Obama did out of spite. That would tend to make a difference when the pandemic that the smart people expected finally showed up.

To put it another way -- why is the wealthy and exceptional United States sucking so bad at this if the administration itself doesn't matter?   
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That absolutely could have helped.  Or it could have not helped much at all.  I would've preferred we had them, agree 100%.  Again, this was coming regardless and nobody was prepared.

I think a big part of the problem is a wide ranging culture and, unfortunately for a situation like this, a fondness for expressing freedom.  I have no problem wearing a mask.  Some people feel like that is an infringement on their rights.  Maybe it is, maybe it's just selfish.  Maybe it's all true.  Still, just f#&%ing do it.  If stubborn Republicans would get over themselves and or not listen to Trump, my Dad wouldn't have Covid right now.  

 
Bush's approval rating proves that approval ratings don't mean s#!t.  He was f#&%ing terrible.

ZRod said:
The protests weren't a rock concert in an arena where everyone is stuck in the same spot. Doing the basics outdoors is better than nothing.
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Even the "peaceful" ones?  You know my usage of mosh pit was hyperbole right?

 
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Redux said:
Even the "peaceful" ones?  You know my usage of mosh pit was hyperbole right?
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Was the face palm too? Is "peaceful"? Are you trying to make conclusion about people at peaceful protests wearing mask based on completely different people at a literal riot?

 
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