Tangent Thread - P&R Edition

ZRod said:
Was the face palm too? Is "peaceful"? Are you trying to make conclusion about people at peaceful protests wearing mask based on completely different people at a literal riot?
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A little, yes.  I was making fun of the media with the "peaceful" line.  And yes, people at both protests and riots wete not wearing masks or practicing distancing.  The opposite is also true. But it furthers my original point, the people at riots and protests ignoring guidelines were not doing so because of influence from Trump.

 
Redux said:
A little, yes.  I was making fun of the media with the "peaceful" line.  And yes, people at both protests and riots wete not wearing masks or practicing distancing.  The opposite is also true. But it furthers my original point, the people at riots and protests ignoring guidelines were not doing so because of influence from Trump.
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There's idiots all over. Only one side is politicizing the wearing of mask and being willfully ignorant.

 
Redux said:
This is also a fallacy 
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I disagree.

The pushback and hesitancy to wear a mask in this country is largely a result of the most powerful person in the world, and his administration, routinely condemning science and the work of worldwide healthcare professionals.

To my memory, few were questioning the validity and effectiveness of strategies to prevent coronavirus from spreading until Trump et al. did. Few were questioning masks until Trump et al. did. It largely started out as a Trump et al. thing, and then because of the way this country works, it permeated into his political base and became a political issue.

 
Enhance said:
I disagree.

The pushback and hesitancy to wear a mask in this country is largely a result of the most powerful person in the world, and his administration, routinely condemning science and the work of worldwide healthcare professionals.

To my memory, few were questioning the validity and effectiveness of strategies to prevent coronavirus from spreading until Trump et al. did. Few were questioning masks until Trump et al. did. It largely started out as a Trump et al. thing, and then because of the way this country works, it permeated into his political base and became a political issue.
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That's all true for the most part. But to say the Democrats didn't use this to their advantage isn't accurate.  I FIRMLY believe Covid is the reason Trump failed to retain.

 
Redux said:
I FIRMLY believe Covid is the reason Trump failed to retain.
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You're a trumpist, so of course you'd think this. Because, frankly, and to be kind, you're just a moron.

But this is wrong.

Unlike you, most people in this country are decent.

And unlike you, most people in this country are smart enough to realize the behavior trump displayed his whole life is not decent.

Raised by a racist father.

Cheating on wife after wife.

Divorce after divorce.

Covering up affairs.

Raping women.

Denying payment to honest tradesmen.

Ties to the mafia.

Ties to dirty foreign money.

Preying on underage girls.

Lie after lie after lie after lie after lie after lie. And it goes on.

The decent people of America have had enough.

The complete incompetence of his reaction to COVID has resulted in the United States, with 4% of the world's population, having 25% of the world's COVID deaths.

But there are always useful buffoons like you. People who can't grasp basic truths.

People who believe that Hillary's emails are disqualifying.

People who believe Hunter Biden taking foreign money is a scandal.

People who believe trump is a good christian man.

So... duh. Of course you believe that. You'd believe anything trump says.

That's what hucksters like trump do. Fool idiots like you.

P.T. Barnum was right.

 
knapplc said:
You're a trumpist, so of course you'd think this. Because, frankly, and to be kind, you're just a moron.

But this is wrong.

Unlike you, most people in this country are decent.

And unlike you, most people in this country are smart enough to realize the behavior trump displayed his whole life is not decent.

Raised by a racist father.

Cheating on wife after wife.

Divorce after divorce.

Covering up affairs.

Raping women.

Denying payment to honest tradesmen.

Ties to the mafia.

Ties to dirty foreign money.

Preying on underage girls.

Lie after lie after lie after lie after lie after lie. And it goes on.

The decent people of America have had enough.

The complete incompetence of his reaction to COVID has resulted in the United States, with 4% of the world's population, having 25% of the world's COVID deaths.

But there are always useful buffoons like you. People who can't grasp basic truths.

People who believe that Hillary's emails are disqualifying.

People who believe Hunter Biden taking foreign money is a scandal.

People who believe trump is a good christian man.

So... duh. Of course you believe that. You'd believe anything trump says.

That's what hucksters like trump do. Fool idiots like you.

P.T. Barnum was right.
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The Netflix, 4 part series on Trump goes into a lot of this in great detail. Not sure how anyone could watch that and NOT think Trump is a piece of s#!t person.

 
Redux said:
That's all true for the most part. But to say the Democrats didn't use this to their advantage isn't accurate.  I FIRMLY believe Covid is the reason Trump failed to retain.
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I agree with the bolded, but in my opinion, the Democrats didn't benefit from Trump's COVID strategy (or lack there of) because they were politicizing it. They benefited because he made mistakes and I think that's a pretty significant difference.

If you're competing against someone for a promotion at work, and said person does something to seriously undermine themselves during the hiring process, you become a unintentional beneficiary. You may speak out against that person and condemn what they did, but you didn't really have a role in their errors. I think that's more or less what we saw with how the outgoing administration managed COVID.

As for COVID being the primary reason Trump failed? I'd again have to disagree. Most of the exit polling I've seen suggests otherwise.

 
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Enhance said:
I agree with the bolded, but in my opinion, the Democrats didn't benefit from Trump's COVID strategy (or lack there of) because they were politicizing it. They benefited because he made mistakes and I think that's a pretty significant difference.

If you're competing against someone for a promotion at work, and said person does something to seriously undermine themselves during the hiring process, you become a unintentional beneficiary. You may speak out against that person and condemn what they did, but you didn't really have a role in their errors. I think that's more or less what we saw with how the outgoing administration managed COVID.

As for COVID being the primary reason Trump failed? I'd again have to disagree. Most of the exit polling I've seen suggests otherwise.
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But my point is without Covid, I don't think Biden stood a chance.  It took a pandemic where Trump was completely unprepared and fear mongering (some justified some not) from the left to swing this in their favor.  And it worked obviously.  That and Trump ran an awful campaign this time around.  Without a pandemic Biden can't beat Trump.  Could be wrong but I just don't see it.  Trump also bumbled Healthcare to the point where Biden could have promised anything and people would've gotten on board.

 
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Enhance said:
I disagree.

The pushback and hesitancy to wear a mask in this country is largely a result of the most powerful person in the world, and his administration, routinely condemning science and the work of worldwide healthcare professionals.

To my memory, few were questioning the validity and effectiveness of strategies to prevent coronavirus from spreading until Trump et al. did. Few were questioning masks until Trump et al. did. It largely started out as a Trump et al. thing, and then because of the way this country works, it permeated into his political base and became a political issue.
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I honestly don't understand why this has to be repeated over and over again, ad nauseam; it's as close to fact as fact gets. 

 
Redux said:
But my point is without Covid, I don't think Biden stood a chance.  It took a pandemic where Trump was completely unprepared and fear mongering (some justified some not) from the left to swing this in their favor.  And it worked obviously.  That and Trump ran an awful campaign this time around.  Without a pandemic Biden can't beat Trump.  Could be wrong but I just don't see it.  Trump also bumbled Healthcare to the point where Biden could have promised anything and people would've gotten on board.
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Hmm... I guess I see what you're saying, but I'm still not sure I fully agree with it. We seem to agree on Trump's COVID failures, but personally, I think Biden could've won without it and that's primarily based on what I've seen from exit polling and anecdotal conversations with friends/family that voted for Biden. COVID certainly mattered, but voters were more critical of Trump's personality and personal/policy failings than anything else.

I absolutely agree on Trump's overall campaign failures, too. You can't run the same campaign two terms in a row. It never works and it bit Trump.

 
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