Tangent Thread - P&R Edition

[knapplc]

I still would have expected Scott Frost to intervene somehow when LP was beating up his girlfriend.

There were three people in that room when Phillips busted in. Who told the story of Frost hiding in the closet? Phillips? Kate McEwen? Assuredly not Frost, because he wouldn't have made himself look so cowardly. 

I've always wondered about that. Was it McEwen? If so, who'd she tell that to, and why would they leak it? She's a possibility. Maybe (understandably) upset that Frost didn't prevent Phillips from assaulting her. But not necessarily true. 

Most likely that story came from Phillips, right? He had the motive to disparage Frost. But if Phillips is the source, how much should we believe it?

 

[Mavric]

I could have sworn there was a thread talking about how great Lawrence Phillips was, but how scary he would be to confront as a teammate, and I posted that I still would have expected Scott Frost to intervene somehow when LP was beating up his girlfriend.

But now there's no record of those posts. Zup?

This is the only recent thread that I recall discussing Phillips:

 

[Enhance]

I've always wondered about that. Was it McEwen? If so, who'd she tell that to, and why would they leak it? She's a possibility. Maybe (understandably) upset that Frost didn't prevent Phillips from assaulting her. But not necessarily true. 

Most likely that story came from Phillips, right? He had the motive to disparage Frost. But if Phillips is the source, how much should we believe it?

This is one of those things that has always bothered me with that situation in addition to some of the residual he said/she said as well as the trust (or lack there of) surrounding the accounts of what happened.

And my frustrations really came to a peak when Frost was getting hired here or just shortly after he had been hired. I remember listening to Benning one morning and that situation still bothered him. He clearly still held something against Frost for it because he said as much on live radio. To some degree, I get it. There are a lot of guys that were close to LP. I just did not understand the value or necessity of bringing it up on a widely broadcasted radio program 20 years after the fact. IMO if you're DB keep that s#!t in-house and figure your s#!t out in-house. If you're still bugged about it, take it up with Frost. Don't air it out there like a lure for the fans to get all knotted up about.

DB has always been a heart on his sleeve kind of guy though.

 

[knapplc]

This is one of those things that has always bothered me with that situation in addition to some of the residual he said/she said as well as the trust (or lack there of) surrounding the accounts of what happened.

And my frustrations really came to a peak when Frost was getting hired here or just shortly after he had been hired. I remember listening to Benning one morning and that situation still bothered him. He clearly still held something against Frost for it because he said as much on live radio. To some degree, I get it. There are a lot of guys that were close to LP. I just did not understand the value or necessity of bringing it up on a widely broadcasted radio program 20 years after the fact. IMO if you're DB keep that s#!t in-house and figure your s#!t out in-house. If you're still bugged about it, take it up with Frost. Don't air it out there like a lure for the fans to get all knotted up about.

DB has always been a heart on his sleeve kind of guy though.

I remember that Benning segment. It was heart-felt, and I believe he believes what he said was true, but I think there were probably three different truths in that apartment that night. 

And for sure, Frost came to Nebraska with a massive arrogance. We met him at Old Country Buffet after the Spring Game in 1995 or 1996 or whatever. He was just dripping with self-importance. I can see how that would have turned off guys in the locker room. 

But that doesn't mean he was in the wrong in that situation. McEwen may have dated Phillips in the past, but he did not own her, and Frost dating her was her choice. Benning seems to forget that. 

Fast-forward from that OCB meeting of Frost, he moved in to my neighborhood a few houses away maybe seven or eight years later. Totally different guy. Good neighbor and very normal and easy to talk to. 

After he got into coaching his folks moved into that house, and stayed there until Larry passed in 2019. Again, really great people, very good neighbors, and they had very good dogs. When Larry got sick folks would take turns scooping their driveway. 

So when I'm listening to that Benning segment, I couldn't help but think he's judging Frost as someone he's not, on a situation that happened 20 years earlier, involving an act committed by a very troubled and dangerous person. And while LP's life did not set him up for success, in no way was Phillips not the bad guy in that situation. 

I wonder how Frost's career at Nebraska, both in the 90s and now, would be different if he hadn't been in that room that night. 

 

[Enhance]

So when I'm listening to that Benning segment, I couldn't help but think he's judging Frost as someone he's not, on a situation that happened 20 years earlier, involving an act committed by a very troubled and dangerous person. And while LP's life did not set him up for success, in no way was Phillips not the bad guy in that situation. 

Exactly. I think this precisely articulates my feelings on it plus the whole situation in general.

It has been some time since I heard that segment, so I don't recall the exact things DB said. But I vaguely remember him suggesting (or flat out accusing) Frost of enabling and/or somehow contributing to the circumstances that led LP to make the decisions LP did that night. If my memory on that is correct, and even giving the benefit of the doubt that perhaps Frost did help cultivate that situation somehow (either through his attitude, words, what have you), the real pivotal plot point of it all is exactly as you stated - Phillips was the one who overwhelmingly did the wrong thing that night.

I think it's a classic situation of struggling to see the trees the forest for DB even though I get why he feels the way he feels.

 

[Guy Chamberlin]

This is the only recent thread that I recall discussing Phillips:

I just know that I wrote it, and it's no longer listed among my posts. 

It's easy to leave this under the rug after 27 years. People grow and change. But it's still unpleasant to picture this incident unfolding according to any of the accounts given.  LP is the bad guy, no question, but smaller and weaker people have intervened when a woman is being beaten. It's always lurking somewhere in my view of Scott Frost. 

Surely we can agree that Damon Benning would have far more insight to the players and incident than you or I? 

It came up on a thread about how scary LP would be to cross. 

 

[Enhance]

Surely we can agree that Damon Benning would have far more insight to the players and incident than you or I? 

I think this is undoubtedly true. But most of the people who truly know anything about it are far more emotionally invested in it than the majority of us. The truth of what happened and how it happened, like with all things, is probably somewhere in the middle. Really all we've got is questions, questions that would probably get different answers depending who you ask.

DB may know more than most, but he is also more emotionally invested than most, and that can be as much of a boon as it can be a curse when trying to sort through something like this.

So the question that lurks in your mind, I get it. Even though you don't know the answer... the thought of the possible answer brings you pause.

I've personally resigned myself to knowing I won't know and it's tough for me to hold that against a guy in a situation where I have no real emotional investment in outside of just being a fan of the team he/they played for.

 

[knapplc]

Surely we can agree that Damon Benning would have far more insight to the players and incident than you or I? 

Three people were in that apartment that night. Damon wasn't one of them.

My friend lived in that building, and was there that night. He has a better first-person account of that incident than Damon Benning. My friend doesn't know any more details than that there was shouting and chaos and noise, and that the residents of the building stuck their heads in the hallway but otherwise didn't leave their apartments.

What insight are we going to learn from Damon Benning? He wasn't there.

 

[Guy Chamberlin]

Three people were in that apartment that night. Damon wasn't one of them.

My friend lived in that building, and was there that night. He has a better first-person account of that incident than Damon Benning. My friend doesn't know any more details than that there was shouting and chaos and noise, and that the residents of the building stuck their heads in the hallway but otherwise didn't leave their apartments.

What insight are we going to learn from Damon Benning? He wasn't there.

Damon was a teammate of the two men involved. Since none of the residents saw anything, Damon would likely know a lot more about the situation than people who didn't leave their apartments, weren't close personal colleagues, and didn't experience any of the aftermath. 

While there's admittedly stuff we don't know, we seem to agree there was at least one person in the apartment that night who did not get involved when a man drug a woman down the stairs by her hair and smashed her face against the mailbox. 

I guess the other way to look at it is why should Damon Benning's insights be invalid? He certainly wasn't alone in his discomfort with the situation. Your friend's lack of insights doesn't really change that. 

I never discussed it much myself because I preferred keeping Scott Frost a hero and badass, and letting the chips fall on Lawrence Phillips. 

 

[knapplc]

What, exactly, did Benning say that you agree with?

 

[Guy Chamberlin]

What, exactly, did Benning say that you agree with?

Since this is people discussing memories of something Benning said years ago, the only thing I can agree with is that the incident also left me wondering about Scott Frost's actions or inactions that night. Given what we know happened, it was never a minor incident. My only emotional investment is putting myself in that situation, and I've certainly been on the edge of that situation before. It stays with you. 

What, exactly, did Benning say that you disagree with? 

And why would it be negated by a friend of yours who didn't see anything? 

 

[knapplc]

Since this is people discussing memories of something Benning said years ago, the only thing I can agree with is that the incident also left me wondering about Scott Frost's actions or inactions that night. Given what we know happened, it was never a minor incident. My only emotional investment is putting myself in that situation, and I've certainly been on the edge of that situation before. It stays with you. 

What, exactly, did Benning say that you disagree with? 

And why would it be negated by a friend of yours who didn't see anything?

I get the impression you're not sure what Benning said. I didn't say anything DB said was negated. I said Benning wasn't there, and even people who were in the building have no idea what happened in that apartment. The only place Damon Benning got any information about who did what in that apartment was from Phillips. If there's one thing we can all agree on, Lawrence Phillips is the bad guy. Benning being an apologist for that bad guy is something I find objectionable - more objectionable than Frost's inaction.

I'm sure you feel you would have done more than Frost is purported to have done. We all like to fantasize we'd be the hero in such a situation. I know I'd like to think I'd have saved the day. But the brain doesn't always work the way we want in crisis situations. And at 22, 23 years old, awakened in the middle of the night by an intruder, a lot of us would have reacted in the wrong way.

Frost didn't have the luxury of decades of hindsight that night. He had that moment sprung on him. Damon Benning has had more than enough time to decide who was in the right and in the wrong. He still chose to defend LP.

 

[Lorewarn]

Frost didn't have the luxury of decades of hindsight that night. He had that moment sprung on him. Damon Benning has had more than enough time to decide who was in the right and in the wrong. He still chose to defend LP.

This is a big part of it for me. Not only did he not have hindsight, he also didn't really have any way of discerning if it was or was about to get physically violent (probably until it's too late).

Combine that with the accepted rumor that Osborne told Frost more than once to stay away from her and I would've hid too, at least to start. And from that point forward who knows what's happening out there.

 

[Guy Chamberlin]

I get the impression you're not sure what Benning said. I didn't say anything DB said was negated. I said Benning wasn't there, and even people who were in the building have no idea what happened in that apartment. The only place Damon Benning got any information about who did what in that apartment was from Phillips. If there's one thing we can all agree on, Lawrence Phillips is the bad guy. Benning being an apologist for that bad guy is something I find objectionable - more objectionable than Frost's inaction.

I'm sure you feel you would have done more than Frost is purported to have done. We all like to fantasize we'd be the hero in such a situation. I know I'd like to think I'd have saved the day. But the brain doesn't always work the way we want in crisis situations. And at 22, 23 years old, awakened in the middle of the night by an intruder, a lot of us would have reacted in the wrong way.

Frost didn't have the luxury of decades of hindsight that night. He had that moment sprung on him. Damon Benning has had more than enough time to decide who was in the right and in the wrong. He still chose to defend LP.

I actually have no idea what Benning said, but someone here brought it up in relation to the incident, suggesting Benning still takes issue with Frost. As a teammate of both men, I would never dismiss what he heard and leaned in both the lead up and aftermath of that night. More than you or I or the neighbors. 

I also had no idea that Benning suggested LP wasn't the bad guy in the incident, and would be really interested to hear those specifics. 

And yeah, I'm not talking about a fantasy where I would have schooled Lawrence Phillips and saved the girl. This isn't a comic book. I'm just saying I can't imagine my girlfriend getting beat up and me doing nothing. It runs through my mind not because I'm rehashing the past or hating on Frost, but because this kinda s#!t happens all the time and it is a test of character. I wasn't exactly a hero when I faced a lesser altercation, but I stood witness. And I know much smaller, weaker people who stepped in between a violent bully and a woman, successfully and and risk to themselves. 

I guess if Scott was knowingly banging Lawrence Phillips' girlfriend, he might be inclined to hide when LP came knocking. At 22 we still do a lot of stupid things. But we are, officially, adults.

 

[knapplc]

I'm just saying I can't imagine my girlfriend getting beat up and me doing nothing.

I can imagine you doing nothing. I can imagine you doing something and the guy who would climb to a third-floor balcony and break into an apartment to commit an assault would lie about what you did, too. I can imagine a lot of things.

(Police said Phillips broke into the apartment of transfer quarterback Scott Frost and attacked McEwen with his hands. Frost and another man managed to get Phillips away from McEwen after she had been dragged down a flight of stairs. McEwen was treated at a hospital, and later requested and received 24-hour protection, paid for by the university. Earlier this month, Phillips was sentenced to one year of probation for beating McEwen.)

LA Times, December, 1995