The Christian Response to Jason Collins

[Junior]

i guess it makes sense the christians have persecution complexes, but c'mon.

I know there are plenty of Christians that fall into this, but I think for many, it's not necessarily a persecution complex, just a resigning sigh that most all beliefs and orientations and lifestyles are celebrated except for the ones that say "Now hold on a second, no that's not right". The "intolerance of tolerance", if you will.

christianity is celebrated, it is just so ingrained in our culture and society that we no longer recognize it. christmas and easter are major holidays. louisiana does not have counties, they have parishes. we have christian schools and most of our most impressive architecture is dedicated to christian churches. you can not blame minority positions, whether you agree with them or not, for celebrating when they finally arrive to a point of a modicum of acceptance.

i am just confused on how you would like it to be different for christians and the celebration of christianity?

I don't want to derail this thread into something it shouldn't be, so maybe this should be it's own thread, but I disagree with the statement that Christianity is celebrated.

You mention Christmas and Easter. Originally pagan holidays adopted by Christians for their own celebrations of their faith, and now re-adopted by the mass public as secular holidays focused on different things. Christmas and Easter mean wildly different things to different groups, and the most widespread and permeating American versions leave little to no room for centrality of God or the gospel.

The rest of the examples I'm not really sure how to approach; but my point is this. Christian moralism and ideology is celebrated...sometimes....except for when it is in disagreement with the prevailing opinions of the time....and minus nearly all of the doctrinal and theological framework. Just stripped down to the messages of good and bad.

It's fascinating to me how a country founded upon religious freedom (among other things) can look so eerily like a Christendom, where most people who claim the faith do so out of their citizenship to the country and their culture verses claiming it out of a personal conversion experience and relationship.

When was the last time Muslim moralism was celebrated in this country? Or Hinduism? Or scientology-ism? I guess I don't understand why Christians feel such a need to have a pat on the back and be told how wonderful their religion is, when that same group of people often goes out of their way to ostracize other religions.

 

[StPaulHusker]

those all sound more like personal christian problems and problems for the church than society's problems.

you would agree that christianity is extremely personal? so why is it society's problem?

I would say yes and it shouldn't be.

Could the same argument be made about homosexuality? Please bear in mind, I am not trying to pick a new fight. They are interesting questions.

 

[Junior]

those all sound more like personal christian problems and problems for the church than society's problems.

you would agree that christianity is extremely personal? so why is it society's problem?

I would say yes and it shouldn't be.

Could the same argument be made about homosexuality? Please bear in mind, I am not trying to pick a new fight. They are interesting questions.

Sure, but the difference being, there are not laws preventing a Christian marrying another Christian in this country. There is no Christian civil rights fight (despite efforts to convince us otherwise).

 

[Landlord]

When was the last time Muslim moralism was celebrated in this country? Or Hinduism? Or scientology-ism? I guess I don't understand why Christians feel such a need to have a pat on the back and be told how wonderful their religion is, when that same group of people often goes out of their way to ostracize other religions.

I don't know, I personally don't feel the need for a pat on the back, and don't expect one. The last thing I'll say on the matter is that despite the failings of the church, the message of Jesus and the message of us as followers isn't or shouldn't be to ostracize other religious people, but to defend and fight for what we believe to be the truth. That's really the crux - by and large our culture can't really decide if we believe there is objective truth or not, and waffles on the thought depending on the circumstances, and from time to time, the church is vilified for taking a stance and having the gall to say it believes other stances are wrong.

 

[sd'sker]

those all sound more like personal christian problems and problems for the church than society's problems.

you would agree that christianity is extremely personal? so why is it society's problem?

I would say yes and it shouldn't be.

Could the same argument be made about homosexuality? Please bear in mind, I am not trying to pick a new fight. They are interesting questions.

i do not mean personal in that it should be kept to yourself. i mean, christianity is about a personal relationship with jesus.

landlord seemed to be lamenting the fact that so many people are christian in name only. while that might be a problem for the church and individual, it is not society's problem. a person chooses to be christian and then chooses to conduct himself/herself as they see fit as a christian.

i do not think homosexuality should be society's problem. society has made it its problem by marginalizing homosexuals.

 

[sd'sker]

When was the last time Muslim moralism was celebrated in this country? Or Hinduism? Or scientology-ism? I guess I don't understand why Christians feel such a need to have a pat on the back and be told how wonderful their religion is, when that same group of people often goes out of their way to ostracize other religions.

I don't know, I personally don't feel the need for a pat on the back, and don't expect one. The last thing I'll say on the matter is that despite the failings of the church, the message of Jesus and the message of us as followers isn't or shouldn't be to ostracize other religious people, but to defend and fight for what we believe to be the truth. That's really the crux - by and large our culture can't really decide if we believe there is objective truth or not, and waffles on the thought depending on the circumstances, and from time to time, the church is vilified for taking a stance and having the gall to say it believes other stances are wrong.

does the church agree what is the truth? i think that is a big problem for it. limbo was a thing, now it is not. galileo was a heretic up and until 1992. so on and so forth.

 

[BigRedBuster]

i guess it makes sense the christians have persecution complexes, but c'mon.

I know there are plenty of Christians that fall into this, but I think for many, it's not necessarily a persecution complex, just a resigning sigh that most all beliefs and orientations and lifestyles are celebrated except for the ones that say "Now hold on a second, no that's not right". The "intolerance of tolerance", if you will.

christianity is celebrated, it is just so ingrained in our culture and society that we no longer recognize it. christmas and easter are major holidays. louisiana does not have counties, they have parishes. we have christian schools and most of our most impressive architecture is dedicated to christian churches. you can not blame minority positions, whether you agree with them or not, for celebrating when they finally arrive to a point of a modicum of acceptance.

i am just confused on how you would like it to be different for christians and the celebration of christianity?

I don't want to derail this thread into something it shouldn't be, so maybe this should be it's own thread, but I disagree with the statement that Christianity is celebrated.

You mention Christmas and Easter. Originally pagan holidays adopted by Christians for their own celebrations of their faith, and now re-adopted by the mass public as secular holidays focused on different things. Christmas and Easter mean wildly different things to different groups, and the most widespread and permeating American versions leave little to no room for centrality of God or the gospel.

The rest of the examples I'm not really sure how to approach; but my point is this. Christian moralism and ideology is celebrated...sometimes....except for when it is in disagreement with the prevailing opinions of the time....and minus nearly all of the doctrinal and theological framework. Just stripped down to the messages of good and bad.

It's fascinating to me how a country founded upon religious freedom (among other things) can look so eerily like a Christendom, where most people who claim the faith do so out of their citizenship to the country and their culture verses claiming it out of a personal conversion experience and relationship.

When was the last time Muslim moralism was celebrated in this country? Or Hinduism? Or scientology-ism? I guess I don't understand why Christians feel such a need to have a pat on the back and be told how wonderful their religion is, when that same group of people often goes out of their way to ostracize other religions.

I can agree with that. I personally don't need anyone to pat me on the back for my beliefs. But, that also goes both ways. For some reason there are people who aren't Christians that find the need to criticize it or ridicule it and anyone who believes it any chance they get. I don't understand the need to do so.

I don't believe the same as Muslims but I don't sit and make snide comments about it all the time. Some people do and it turns me off and I don't understand the need to ridicule someone else's personal beliefs.

Some will say...."Yeah...but Christianity affects me even though I don't believe it". Well, the same is true to an extent about any religion or lack of religion. We don't live in a vacuum.

I guess I was taught to respect others more than some people were.

 

[StPaulHusker]

When was the last time Muslim moralism was celebrated in this country? Or Hinduism? Or scientology-ism? I guess I don't understand why Christians feel such a need to have a pat on the back and be told how wonderful their religion is, when that same group of people often goes out of their way to ostracize other religions.

I don't know, I personally don't feel the need for a pat on the back, and don't expect one. The last thing I'll say on the matter is that despite the failings of the church, the message of Jesus and the message of us as followers isn't or shouldn't be to ostracize other religious people, but to defend and fight for what we believe to be the truth. That's really the crux - by and large our culture can't really decide if we believe there is objective truth or not, and waffles on the thought depending on the circumstances, and from time to time, the church is vilified for taking a stance and having the gall to say it believes other stances are wrong.

does the church agree what is the truth? i think that is a big problem for it. limbo was a thing, now it is not. galileo was a heretic up and until 1992. so on and so forth.

I think Christianity agrees with what is the Truth. As in the actual Bible teachings. The points you have mentioned reflect how some religions or religious leaders interpret the Bible. Like birth-control. Catholics see it as a mortal sin. There may be another Christian based religion that wouldn't go that far.

 

[Landlord]

does the church agree what is the truth? i think that is a big problem for it. limbo was a thing, now it is not. galileo was a heretic up and until 1992. so on and so forth.

Not always, and on all topics, no. But neither does anyone else. And there have been core, fundamental teachings and traditions that the church has always held to. Jesus being God, faith by grace, authority of Scripture, holiness of God, heaven and hell, etc. etc. The more tertiary issues will always be disagreed upon. Think of it like state and national borders - differences, but still part of the same team. Or, like house rules. The house makes the rules, and different people in the house have differing opinions and thoughts on things, but if you stray outside of the given framework you're no longer a member of the house.

But yes, that is a big part of the problem. The church is made up of imperfect people with misguided ideals just like any other people group is.

 

[Someone]

The point about marriage and all the tax and insurance benefits that come with it is key to this discussion. Christians have benefits and rights that gay people do not.

(On a side note, that are many many many gay Christians and many, many, many Christian Churches that openly welcome LGBT members.)

 

[BigRedBuster]

The point about marriage and all the tax and insurance benefits that come with it is key to this discussion. Christians have benefits and rights that gay people do not.

(On a side note, that are many many many gay Christians and many, many, many Christian Churches that openly welcome LGBT members.)

Just being Christian gives you certain rights? Like what?

 

[StPaulHusker]

The point about marriage and all the tax and insurance benefits that come with it is key to this discussion. Christians have benefits and rights that gay people do not.

(On a side note, that are many many many gay Christians and many, many, many Christian Churches that openly welcome LGBT members.)

Very true. And good for them for loving their fellow man

 

[The Dude]

However, why is it that he has to TELL the world about it. I strongly believe in a don't ask, don't tell policy...Just keep your mouth shut. That way no one has to give you any crap about it.

Because bigots no longer get to make the rules.

 

[Someone]

The point about marriage and all the tax and insurance benefits that come with it is key to this discussion. Christians have benefits and rights that gay people do not.

(On a side note, that are many many many gay Christians and many, many, many Christian Churches that openly welcome LGBT members.)

Just being Christian gives you certain rights? Like what?

I didn't phrase that well. Thanks for point this out.

Gays have fewer rights than non-gay people, inspite of the 14th ammendment and the "All men are created equal" line from the D of I.

 

[Mierin]

The stuff about Tebow is cracking me up. For years people have been complaining about how much media attention he gets, and now suddenly people in this thread are claiming that the media doesn't embrace people with Christian ideology. LOL