The Courts under Trump - Mega Thread

Waldo said:
Agreed. I could care less about Kavanaugh, but how can you believe either person definitively. I think a lot of people in this thread have their blue tinted glasses on and are arguing for the simple fact that they don't like Kavanaugh and don't want another Republican to fill a seat. 

While most sexual assault claims are real, people can and will start using this to their advantage to slander others, especially in politics. 
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Hmmmm...there are some of those here, but, far fewer than you think.

As an independent, I don't give a flying rip what party they are affiliated with.  If it were strictly on his credentials getting on the court, I would probably vote for him.  Legal wise, I don't agree with him on everything, but, i don't see anything that would keep him off the court.

However, everything around his nomination is a cluster F*** and because of that, I feel the entire process should be halted.

As far as the allegations against him, I listened to some of both testimonies yesterday.  I can honestly say that I firmly believe these things:

a)  Something happened between them in Highschool.  I have no clue what.

b)  Both are passionate and probably believe what they said yesterday.

c)  There is really no way of knowing at this point, what exactly happened.

All that said......

I am extremely uncomfortable with a President like Trump being able to hand pick two judges to be on the court that may ultimately decide if he can remain in office.  

I believe this nomination should not go forward till after the new congress is seated.

 
Guy Chamberlin said:
If Kavanaugh gets dumped, how would you celebrate?

Because the most vindictive President in our history would be lining up another nominee, vetted to deliver the same judicial results and frustrate the same liberal opposition. 
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I wouldn't celebrate, but I'd hope that at least the next nominee is apolitical and not committing perjury in his own nomination hearing. Kavanaugh is terrible regardless of his past judicial decisions.

 
BigRedBuster said:
I'm going to say this with the express point that I fully understand how bad sexual assault is and I don't take it lightly.

However, there is a reason why some legal offenses are tried as a juvenile and then the punishment and treatment of the conviction is different after the person is an adult.

If he were still a teenager and this came out, go for it.  Punish him and make sure he understands that what he did was wrong.  However, when it's been this long and nobody can claim or show that this behavior has continued into his adulthood, I don't see the relevance of going back to HS on something like this.

Good Lord....I was an immature imbecile at that age and did things I am not proud of.  Should I be forever judged by my actions at 16 or 17?
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If you tried to rape someone and then lie about it not happening then yes you should be forever judged for those actions.

 
The real story from yesterday is that one of the two witnesses committed perjury. 

Only one of them is being asked to sit on the Supreme Court. 

If only there had been someone else in that room.

Oh wait.....

Man, what must it feel like to be Mark Judge right now? 

 
BigRedBuster said:
I'm going to say this with the express point that I fully understand how bad sexual assault is and I don't take it lightly.

However, there is a reason why some legal offenses are tried as a juvenile and then the punishment and treatment of the conviction is different after the person is an adult.

  

If he were still a teenager and this came out, go for it.  Punish him and make sure he understands that what he did was wrong.  However, when it's been this long and nobody can claim or show that this behavior has continued into his adulthood, I don't see the relevance of going back to HS on something like this.

  

Good Lord....I was an immature imbecile at that age and did things I am not proud of.  Should I be forever judged by my actions at 16 or 17?
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The relevance is he's the most Roe hostile justice nominated in decades and he's credibly been accused of sexual assault. It's not a great pairing. 

I'm not particularly in favor of this line of attack, but I applaud Democrats unloading on this nominee with everything they have trying to stop his appointment. Mitch McConnell decided long ago the Supreme Court was worth taking the gloves off for, and Democrats (who perpetually get characterized as spineless limp noodles afraid of confrontation) are punching back with bare knuckles. 

It seems like Kavanaugh/the White House are preparing to go down the Bill Clinton road with this accuser. If nothing else, when he gets confirmed, this will further destroy their standing with women who aren't firmly on the Trump Train.

 
lol.   how fitting

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Moiraine said:
Janet Reno put a Republican in charge of the Whitewater investigation. 
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And Mueller was appointed while the Republicans controlled the entire government and Sessions has remained out of the investigation and allowed it to go forward.

Now.....there were a lot of Democrats that thought the entire Jaunita Broaddrick issue was a "right wing conspiracy".  Remember that phrase?  It was repeated constantly by Democrats during that era about a lot of things because they didn't want any of this to come forward against their President.

 
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BigRedBuster said:
There is no celebrating in this entire situation.
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If they kill the Kavanaugh nomination, there will be tons of Democratic celebration and Republicans sworn to revenge, and perhaps no lesson taken away. Followed by the nomination of another rubber stamp conservative justice.

So yeah. That was my point. 

 
Senator Graham was remarkably calm, cool, and collected today. Did he remember to take his meds? Or maybe he's just excited he gets to kiss Trump's as... er, talk to the president again. 




 
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BigRedBuster said:
And Mueller was appointed while the Republicans controlled the entire government and Sessions has remained out of the investigation and allowed it to go forward.

Now.....there were a lot of Democrats that thought the entire Jaunita Broaddrick issue was a "right wing conspiracy".  Remember that phrase?  It was repeated constantly by Democrats during that era about a lot of things because they didn't want any of this to come forward against their President.
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Mueller is a Republican...

I was pretty young at the time so I don’t remember it, I just hated Clinton because he was so fake when he talked.

But I’m still not seeing how this is a good comparison since Clinton was investigated about Monica Lewinsky. A better comparison if you’re talking about how they react to sexual assault allegations would be what the Democrats do in modern times about other Democrats. Keith Ellison is the best example out there. Comparing how men react to this stuff 20 years ago vs. now doesn’t make sense to me. But I agree they were as wrong then as they are now.

 
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BigRedBuster said:
I'm going to say this with the express point that I fully understand how bad sexual assault is and I don't take it lightly.

However, there is a reason why some legal offenses are tried as a juvenile and then the punishment and treatment of the conviction is different after the person is an adult.

If he were still a teenager and this came out, go for it.  Punish him and make sure he understands that what he did was wrong.  However, when it's been this long and nobody can claim or show that this behavior has continued into his adulthood, I don't see the relevance of going back to HS on something like this.

Good Lord....I was an immature imbecile at that age and did things I am not proud of.  Should I be forever judged by my actions at 16 or 17?
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I'm right there with you, I wouldn't want to be judged for drunken stupidity even in my 20s.  The difference is I have no illusions that I could make it through the vetting process of high profile public service, nor would I deserve to be appointed to the supreme court.  I'd fully expect my stupid decisions to follow me if I was in a position to try.

In order to get a lifetime seat on the highest court in the land, probably yes, it should be taken into account.  It's stuck with the victim this long obviously, and she was still discussing it in therapy 6 years ago, and if it's true, he caused that trauma.  Obviously its not a criminal matter at this point, but I'd say yes, that being appointed to the supreme court should be for people who were self aware enough in high school to not do anything like the sexual assault he's accused of.

It's not going to matter to the senate republicans and he'll likely get appointed anyways unless the senate has a guilty conscious about Clarence Thomas (who also shouldn't be serving on the highest court in the land), but were I a republican woman I'd be asking myself "Why do so many of the men my party supports have a history of sexual violence and lack of respect for women?" when that happens.

 
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methodical said:
I'm right there with you, I wouldn't want to be judged for drunken stupidity even in my 20s.  The difference is I have no illusions that I could make it through the vetting process of high profile public service, nor would I deserve to be appointed to the supreme court.  I'd fully expect my stupid decisions to follow me if I was in a position to try.

In order to get a lifetime seat on the highest court in the land, probably yes, it should be taken into account.  It's stuck with the victim this long obviously, and she was still discussing it in therapy 6 years ago, and if it's true, he caused that trauma.  Obviously its not a criminal matter at this point, but I'd say yes, that being appointed to the supreme court should be for people who were self aware enough in high school to not do anything like the sexual assault he's accused of.

It's not going to matter and he'll likely get appointed anyways unless the senate has a guilty conscious about Clarence Thomas (who also shouldn't be serving on the highest court in the land), but were I a republican woman I'd be asking myself "Why do so many of the men my party supports have a history of sexual violence and lack of respect for women" when that happens.
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Well said, methodical. This is a very good, nuanced take.

I'm no Republican, but I'm very much disturbed by how they're willing to elevate power above literally any moral or ethical transgression. Power is all that matters to them now, ultimately. 

I'm also no woman, but it's becoming extremely clear why the GOP is so deeply underwater with women in pretty much every poll right now.

 
Ulty said:
@Waldo, setting aside political motives in this matter as much as possible, a few questions for the sake of discussion:

1. How do you think allegations of sexual assault should be handled if the alleged incident was long ago and evidence is sparse?

2. How do you weigh the credibility of Ford against Kavanaugh if you watched yesterday's testimony? Why?

3. Do you think Kavanaugh is fit to serve a lifetime appointment on the Supreme Court? Why or why not?

4. Is there any reason why the allegations against him should not be fully investigated? 

5. Have you ever been in a courtroom and seen anyone (judge, attorney, witness, etc) act as combative as Kavanaugh did yesterday? How did that turn out for that person?
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1. I've said I hope the metoo movement gets people to file charges, or speak up sooner than later. It's hard to convict someone of murder 36 years ago(using this case as an example), let alone assault. I do not have a great answer, but states have statute of limitations for a reason. 

2. They both had shaky moments. Ford would have to be a hell of an actress to be lying about an assault of some kind. From the parts I heard, she seems credible, but just doesn't know/remember what happened that night. Also sounded like the spotlight was too much at times, which I'm sure it was given the circumstances. 

3. I'm not a huge Kavanaugh fan and wouldn't vote for him if it was an option(not in regards to the interview), but if Hillary and Trump are fit, then yes he is. 

4. Investigate if that's what they choose 

5. No, but people falsely accused of crimes can and should be very angry. He and his family have been through just as much as the Fords. He should have kept his emotions in check, but the questions were at times repetitive and elementary.  

 
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