The Democrat Utopia

I only ask because it seems to me he continues to send signals he's thinking of running.

I'd welcome both him with a younger Dem as a VP or just a good old fashion primary sans Joe with no favorites. I think I'd prefer the latter just because whoever it is will come with new ideas and without baggage. 

Diamond Joe is certainly a throwback to Blue Dog Dems. I think he believes in appealing to the center and would lean heavily into that working class that Clinton struggled to connect with that propelled Trump to victory.

Basically he's kind of Trump in terms of appeal if he didn't suck as much and was more competent. Appeals to a lot of the same groups & has some of Trumps foot-in-mouth disease, albeit nowhere near as bad.

 
zoogs said:
http://www.ontheissues.org/Evan_McMullin.htm

No, but he plays a good #NeverTrumper on Twitter.

That doesn't really do him credit, I guess. He's a fantastic and uncompromising anti-Trump voice on Twitter who genuinely takes the GOP to task where actual GOP politicians, even retiring ones, usually do not.
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Agreed. McMullin is one of the very, very few conservative voices I legitimately admire. I think he'd make a fine president, even though I obviously wouldn't agree with him on fiscal policy. The guy earned his bonafides serving the country in the CIA, and it's worth noting Mormon conservatives are a very VERY different breed than the Trumpism that is currently coursing through the veins of the GOP. I think there's a fair chance he'd be far more moderate on social issues than what we're currently getting from the GOP.

He's one of the very few conservatives I could actually see myself enthusiastically supporting in a general. It would probably take the Dems taking a bad turn and nominating a Kanye or something, though.

 
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To be clear, I'm not saying I admire him. I'm saying he has a strong Twitter game.

I'd be strongly opposed to what seems like a significant chunk of the policy initiatives he's likely to champion, from defunding Planned Parenthood to dismantling Obamacare, to his position on Welfare, Medicaid, minimum wage, etc. McMullin has really stayed out of the substantive policy-staking spotlight, though, which is probably wise. On the other hand, he's not a raving lunatic with an autocratic bent, so there is that.

If he did win in 2020, I think I'd be fascinated to see some of the arguments championing aspects of his agenda.

 
zoogs said:
To be clear, I'm not saying I admire him. I'm saying he has a strong Twitter game.

I'd be strongly opposed to what seems like a significant chunk of the policy initiatives he's likely to champion, from defunding Planned Parenthood to dismantling Obamacare, to his position on Welfare, Medicaid, minimum wage, etc. McMullin has really stayed out of the substantive policy-staking spotlight, though, which is probably wise. On the other hand, he's not a raving lunatic with an autocratic bent, so there is that.

If he did win in 2020, I think I'd be fascinated to see some of the arguments championing aspects of his agenda.
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That's the rub, isn't it? Maybe, assuming he does mount some type of campaign in 2020, his platform is really unpalatable and my interest dwindles immediately. I'd fight either of those proposals if he supported them.

Based on an NPR interview I just found, it seems he's working on something called the Centrism Project to encourage/support more centrist politicians to run for office. I'd think most liberals would prefer that to the current state of affairs, because them displacing Tea Partiers would still shift the Overton Window to the left.

Mostly, he just seems like a reasonable conservative that's more interested in changing politics for the better than pandering to the worst impulses of his base.

 
GBR0988 said:
I can agree with most of this. Both the parties seem to just want power. That’s why I look more at ideas. I believe in freedom and I believe that freedom breeds inequality. It’s sad, but true.

The Democratic Party is constantly talking about equality of outcome and that bigger government is how to achieve equality. That is one of the reasons I lean more towards conservatism.
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I don't ever hear them talking about equality of outcome and bigger government being the way.  I hear them talking about equality of people regardless of what they do, what they look like, what they believe etc because they are PEOPLE.  They are Americans.  I also hear them saying that we should help our fellow Americans who are suffering.  And that there are some core, common things that regardless of income everyone deserves, like health care, education, the ability to work and earn a livable wage to support your family and etc.

Freedom certainly breeds inequality, but don't you think there is a baseline?  That there will still be poor and rich regardless of if everyone can get treatment for their cancer?  That there will still be a difference between the minimum wage fast food chain worker and the career Wall Street type?  

 
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GBR,

I haven't posted in this yet because I’m on my phone and I wanted to take time with my response. 

I was a life long republican till a few years ago when the party left me to become a party of looniness. 

The reason why I personally post way more about trump and the republicans in here is because it totally disgusts me what they have become. 

Here is a prime example. 

Trump rants on and on about the fake media. In doing so, he supports Fox News that employs people like Hannity. 

Hannity’s disgusting reaction to the Moore accusations, caused companies like Keurig to pull their adds. 

Republican voters actially are going on the internet posting videos of them smashing their Keurig. 

Now, how in the hell can a party like that claim to have any form of moral superiority like they claim?  

Those same people (including Hannity) would jump all over this if this were a democrat being accused. 

I can not stand by and allow those actions of a party to be normalized. 

I really wish we were actually talking about  policies and what extent of socialism should be acceptable in America. But, instead, we are stuck discussing a completely inept and incompetent president. 

 
BigRedBuster said:
GBR,

I haven't posted in this yet because I’m on my phone and I wanted to take time with my response. 

I was a life long republican till a few years ago when the party left me to become a party of looniness. 

The reason why I personally post way more about trump and the republicans in here is because it totally disgusts me what they have become. 

Here is a prime example. 

Trump rants on and on about the fake media. In doing so, he supports Fox News that employs people like Hannity. 

Hannity’s disgusting reaction to the Moore accusations, caused companies like Keurig to pull their adds. 

Republican voters actially are going on the internet posting videos of them smashing their Keurig. 

Now, how in the hell can a party like that claim to have any form of moral superiority like they claim?  

Those same people (including Hannity) would jump all over this if this were a democrat being accused. 

I can not stand by and allow those actions of a party to be normalized. 

I really wish we were actually talking about  policies and what extent of socialism should be acceptable in America. But, instead, we are stuck discussing a completely inept and incompetent president. 
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GBR, I've kind of followed the same path as GBR.   I'm more of a old time Reagan conservative.  I don't recognize the republican party anymore - probably in the same way Reagan no longer recognized the Dem party from which he came.  They have become spineless and have no conservative credibility  left - just look at the current budget.  I don't want to hijack this thread to discuss the repubs but it has become painfully obvious that the party is sick.  The party is sick when it is led by a narcistic guy like Trump and the 'leaders' look the other way. As GBR mentions, instead of rising up to a higher standard, supporters of the party are defending the 'undefendable'.   Whether it be Judge Moore, Trump's tweets, or careless policies.   The Dems are basically MEH to me however, If the repub party can get this far off track, I am more than willing to at least listen, learn and consider the policy discussion of the other party.  I've come to realize that the Repub party is NOT the Way, The Truth, or the Life - only one Person is.   Therefore it is good to keep ears open.

As Knapp noted, I too like how McMullen is honestly speaking candidly   of Trump and the party.   Time for the party to get away from talking points and start having an honest discussion.

 
BigRedBuster said:
GBR,

I haven't posted in this yet because I’m on my phone and I wanted to take time with my response. 

I was a life long republican till a few years ago when the party left me to become a party of looniness. 

The reason why I personally post way more about trump and the republicans in here is because it totally disgusts me what they have become. 

Here is a prime example. 

Trump rants on and on about the fake media. In doing so, he supports Fox News that employs people like Hannity. 

Hannity’s disgusting reaction to the Moore accusations, caused companies like Keurig to pull their adds. 

Republican voters actially are going on the internet posting videos of them smashing their Keurig. 

Now, how in the hell can a party like that claim to have any form of moral superiority like they claim?  

Those same people (including Hannity) would jump all over this if this were a democrat being accused. 

I can not stand by and allow those actions of a party to be normalized. 

I really wish we were actually talking about  policies and what extent of socialism should be acceptable in America. But, instead, we are stuck discussing a completely inept and incompetent president. 
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And he did when Kathleen Wiley, Juanita Broderick et al. brought up their sexual assault allegations against Bill Clinton.  And of course, most of those now attacking Roy Moore defended Bill Clinton to the max.  The hypocrisy is the same on both sides, people have just switched arguments.  

 
Dbqgolfer said:
And he did when Kathleen Wiley, Juanita Broderick et al. brought up their sexual assault allegations against Bill Clinton.  And of course, most of those now attacking Roy Moore defended Bill Clinton to the max.  The hypocrisy is the same on both sides, people have just switched arguments.  
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I can see what you are getting at.  But people were defending Hillary, not Bill.  I've yet to come across an article about how awful Moore's wife must be since she hasn't filed for divorce after these allegations came out.

 
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Dbqgolfer said:
And he did when Kathleen Wiley, Juanita Broderick et al. brought up their sexual assault allegations against Bill Clinton.  And of course, most of those now attacking Roy Moore defended Bill Clinton to the max.  The hypocrisy is the same on both sides, people have just switched arguments.  
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This is pure whataboutism. What Hannity and others are doing is wrong, regardless of what others would or have done.

 
I don't think the hypocrisy is on both sides. In fact, I've seen quite a bit of "we need a full reckoning with the Bill Clinton allegations" in the wake of the Weinstein story. Weinstein was fiercely repudiated. Anthony Weiner was fiercely repudiated. It takes a willful blindness to chalk this all up to "both sides". 

 
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